How would you have run things with FUNi's limited resources?

[ABED]

Back in 98-99, FUNi was not anywhere near the stature it is now, but it still had the license to Dragon Ball Z. According to stories from people like Sabat, they didn't have tapes to watch the Japanese version. They had to get the Mexican dub, plus the translated scripts were awful. Assuming you were put in charge of the dub and with limited resources at your disposal, how would you have done things?

[MCDaveG]

The easiest way possible, doing only voice dub of original. Translating the Japanese script, then have the editors to write it to match characters mouth and the english to be naturally spoken.
Then cast some talents with simmilar voices and dub it and record the vocals songs a new or! There is a big idea! I like old Japanese music from the 80's/90's but to actually record new songs
or record the versions like Brazilians do. Hell, Pegasus Fantasy from Saint Seiya is damn well sung in brazilian version and the same singer also did the song Never from the Tenkai-hen Overture.
So, faithfull to original with newly recorded tracks, like German version had those openings, with more modern flavour added and then sell it as soundtrack.

[ABED]

There's an English version of Cha-la Head Cha-la you can find on Youtube, and it's excellent. I would want something like that.

This is perhaps the most important. I think it would lead to better performances, plus the fans who are off put by the new and green voices would stick around for the good translations. Would it cost that much to hire a competent translator? Japanese might be hard to translate into English and there would definitely be moments and jokes that get lost in translation but as long as a good effort was made in keeping the spirit of the story and humor, that's all anyone could ask for. Kai's a pretty good indication of the direction I would go. One of the things that bothered me about the "uncut" versions is that there wasn't any real reason to call it uncut. It was just as infantile as the broadcast version. If there had to be two versions, neither has to be infantile, but the uncut version would contain whatever controversial material there is. I'd also try to change Guru to his correct name "The Grand Elder". While making Goku an all-out hick would be a bit of a shock, there are subtle things one could do in the writing. I do like when scripts are kept as close to the original as possible but I find it redundant to have a character say what another character just did. How many times do we have to hear someone say "he punched him in the face" when we just saw someone punch another character in the face? Lastly, I wouldn't want the opening narration to have non-stop talking, but I also wouldn't want it to have none. Three or four lines would go a long way, especially if you have an amazing narrator like Brice Armstrong. He could read from the phone book and I'd be riveted.

[dbboxkaifan]

* Keep original music
* Use Brazil's script (or Latin Spanish either one's excellent)
* Translate it to English
* Hire Ocean Dub voice cast

Wouldn't have been needed to wait years if this happened.

[ABED]

One of the reasons the ocean dub wasn't used was because they were expensive. The shipping costs, and using unionized voice talent is expensive.

[Beji]

Besides maybe a few silly lines that could have been changed I think it was perfect the way it was done back then. It made it so kids wanted to watch it since it DIDN'T have the original music. Some people can argue they like the original music better but talking about FUNI in the US a majority of kids and older enjoyed the music that played when released, not trumpets and violins. The making Goku a stereotypical hero with a happy side instead of a hick was also more appealing here making him blend well with other comic book characters. The releases we have now wouldn't be possible without FUNI doing the things they did with the budget they had back then. Slowly giving us the releases we wanted like the Dragon Boxes, is a result of them being so successful by making it how it was.

[VegettoEX]

If you're going to say that the kids are so dumb that they won't like the music (which is insane, since Kai is currently airing with the Kikuchi score and it's doing just fine, and it's even MORE "dated" than it would have been in 1996 if you want to play that card), then just just go all-in and say they're so dumb they wouldn't have minded what music played at all, which means the original score would have been fine.

As much as we give 1996 a lot of crap (and specifically 1999), also keep in mind who the people were that did the work. Think about yourself at your own job and to what lengths you go with what you work on. Every moment of every day. Being criticized by 16-year-olds who just got a computer.

So yeah, I would have run the company into the ground.

[Puto]

Back in 98-99, FUNi was not anywhere near the stature it is now, but it still had the license to Dragon Ball Z. According to stories from people like Sabat, they didn't have tapes to watch the Japanese version. They had to get the Mexican dub, plus the translated scripts were awful. Assuming you were put in charge of the dub and with limited resources at your disposal, how would you have done things?

Finding someone who speaks Spanish wouldn't be that hard or expensive. While cross-translating from the Mexican dub wouldn't be ideal, it'd still be miles ahead of what they did do, which was basically guessing at what the script was saying.

[ABED]

Given the popularity of Batman: The Animated Series, which had a full orchestral score and writing that didn't talk down to children, and DBZ's seemingly universal appeal, it's best to just leave it alone. I also don't think it's that big a deal even if they didn't have the Faulconer score. Sure, some people enjoy it, but you can't miss what you never heard, and who watches a show for the music? A good score is just the cherry on top.

Was FUNi successful doing what they did, or in spite of what they did?

I'm not saying make Goku a complete hick, but convey that he's not well educated. The occasional "ain't" as well as chopping off the "g" at the end of the suffix of words with "-ing" would go a long way to keeping some of the nuances of his character.

I wonder what their early translations from Japan looked like. Were they just the mangled translations, or did they also have it in Japanese? If that's the case, that would be perfect, they could just get a translator.

I never had a problem with the FUNi moving their recording operation from Canada to Texas, however what they really needed was a director that was familiar with the series and a better direction. Instead of casting people because they "sound like" a previous cast, I would cast people who fit the character. As Kai proves, the Texas cast would be good once they familiarize themselves with their role(s). A good director would help steer them in the right direction. Sounding like the Ocean cast wouldn't be required. Could anyone not tell the difference?
Here are a few things I would want:
Brice Armstrong as narrator for every DB series. He has the distinct voice you need from a narrator, unlike Dale Kelley and later Kyle Hebert.
Sean Schemmel was always good, but he claims he was trying to sound like the previous actor who I was never a fan of.
Sabat is fine as Piccolo, but I'd want him to drop the gravelly voice he gave Piccolo and use a more natural approach, much like he used in Kai. I also like his later Vegeta, but hated the Drummond impersonation.
I'd look for someone with a deep voice for characters like Ox-King.
I've always enjoyed Sonny Strait but his "Popeye on helium" would have to go.
I wouldn't cast Vollmer or Nadolny unless I had no other option. Needless to say, no granny Freeza. She's fine as Genkai, but not as my favorite villain.

[bkev]

To be honest I think the partnership with Saban they originally made for Z was a brilliant move. They got both money and notoriety from there. Replacement scores were still standard at the time, so I'm not too surprised. At least they got someone like Shuki Levy thanks again to the Saban connection.

As for 1999 when they made the split? I think they did all right. Not perfect - we all know the flaws of Season 3 - but from a business perspective, they must have known what they were doing. They recast the show locally, they kept on a lot of their producers, etc. From a business standpoint, they cut costs - and as we all know, the show exploded. So they were in the money all right.

That said, if they really had to get the Mexican dub... why the hell not just translate that? I would imagine hiring a Spanish to English translator would not only be cheaper, it would be hella easier. And that dub is known for being accurate. A lot of the character flaws that people associate with the in-house dub - Superman Goku, less-than-dignified Vegeta, blatantly obnoxious versus pompous Freeza - those did exist beforehand in the Saban dub, but were (to my memory) kicked into overdrive once Season 3 showed up. I thought that was a mistake.

[linkdude20002001]

I never had a problem with the FUNi moving their recording operation from Canada to Texas, however what they really needed was a director that was familiar with the series and a better direction. Instead of casting people because they "sound like" a previous cast, I would cast people who fit the character. As Kai proves, the Texas cast would be good once they familiarize themselves with their role(s).

At the time though, those people who became actors weren't even actors. Remember season three? And four. And probably the rest as well. I'm sure each actor improved at a different rate.

[ABED]

Actually many of them were actors but were limited to community theater and maybe a few independent films. While acting is acting no matter the medium, voice acting does require a different skill set.

I think bkev is right, they did things right from a business perspective, so I don't fault them for that. I simply think that given their infrastructure, things still could've been handled much better from a creative standpoint, and had at least the same success. Unfortunately there's no parallel universe that we can point to and say "See!" Couldn't they hire someone who had knowledge of the original show?

[Beji]

If you're going to say that the kids are so dumb that they won't like the music (which is insane, since Kai is currently airing with the Kikuchi score and it's doing just fine, and it's even MORE "dated" than it would have been in 1996 if you want to play that card), then just just go all-in and say they're so dumb they wouldn't have minded what music played at all, which means the original score would have been fine.

The music has nothing to do with the intelligence, in fact I'm shocked you'd say they are "dumb" if they prefer the FUNI BGM over the original, especially in the 90's. Its the kid's interest and you're trying to play more towards what they enjoy. If you're going to say Kai's music which is "doing just fine", compare it to Dragon Ball Z's which did "a lot more than just fine". It would have done "just fine" with the original score, but would we have had that huge uprising of DBZ popularity? I'm not so sure.

There was a lot it was competing with action-wise. The show had to be over the top and catchy in all aspects. Now Kai barely has any action show to compete with on TV(Avatar,Pokemon? Young Justice, Batman, Naruto Shippuuden if that is even on tv anymore.). Not to mention the name Dragon Ball is already known, and is being put on there with older brothers (and sisters?) telling them THIS SHOW WAS THE BEST, some not even picking up on the differences. It is essentially piggybacking the old Dragon Ball Z name and doing just fine.

Since I DID miss out on something in what I put is the thing I would have tweaked is the announcer...He sometimes REALLY overdid it. Whether it be too long or so corny a 7 year old child would cringe at it. I'm looking at you History of Trunks.

[VegettoEX]

I'm not calling kids dumb -- I'm doing the exact opposite by way of a combination of devil's advocate and extreme hyperbole.

If you (that being a general "you", whomever it is suggesting this) want to say that it was necessary to replace the music because of American kids and whatever, I'm then saying you might as well take it all the way and go out and just flat out call them idiots and suggest that it wouldn't matter if it was random noise filling up the space, and so in that case you might as well have just left the original score in to save yourself time and money. You're suggesting they wouldn't know the difference, right? Right.

The musical score had little or nothing to do with the overwhelming success of DBZ in the 90s/2000s compared to "Kai" today. It had more to do with the marketing push, additional merchandising opportunities, timing (a newer product; at the end of the day, "Kai" is still the same series it was 20 years ago), etc.

And so, if it had little or nothing to do with it (minus the vocal FAULCONER MADE THE SHOW minority, same with us KIKUCHI MADE THE SHOW minority), then it should have just been left alone.

But again, time and place. Time. Place. But then 1999... and broken promises...

[ABED]

If you're going to say that the kids are so dumb that they won't like the music (which is insane, since Kai is currently airing with the Kikuchi score and it's doing just fine, and it's even MORE "dated" than it would have been in 1996 if you want to play that card), then just just go all-in and say they're so dumb they wouldn't have minded what music played at all, which means the original score would have been fine.

The music has nothing to do with the intelligence, in fact I'm shocked you'd say they are "dumb" if they prefer the FUNI BGM over the original, especially in the 90's. Its the kid's interest and you're trying to play more towards what they enjoy. If you're going to say Kai's music which is "doing just fine", compare it to Dragon Ball Z's which did "a lot more than just fine". It would have done "just fine" with the original score, but would we have had that huge uprising of DBZ popularity? I'm not so sure.

There was a lot it was competing with action-wise. The show had to be over the top and catchy in all aspects. Now Kai barely has any action show to compete with on TV(Avatar,Pokemon? Young Justice, Batman, Naruto Shippuuden if that is even on tv anymore.). Not to mention the name Dragon Ball is already known, and is being put on there with older brothers (and sisters?) telling them THIS SHOW WAS THE BEST, some not even picking up on the differences. It is essentially piggybacking the old Dragon Ball Z name and doing just fine.

Since I DID miss out on something in what I put is the thing I would have tweaked is the announcer...He sometimes REALLY overdid it. Whether it be too long or so corny a 7 year old child would cringe at it. I'm looking at you History of Trunks.

Again, I ask, "who watches a show for the music?"

Are you implying that catchy means saying things like "mondo cool" (a catch phrase that was at least a decade too late) and "okay big guy, whatever turns you on?"

As evidence of kids liking things that don't talk down to them and has an orchestral score, I turn to basically anything WB animated during the early to late 90s (Batman, Superman, Animaniacs, Pinky and the Brain)

Season 3 would've been a perfect time to change course, and keep a product that had more than proven to be a success throughout the world.

[Beji]

If you (that being a general "you", whomever it is suggesting this) want to say that it was necessary to replace the music because of American kids and whatever, I'm then saying you might as well take it all the way and go out and just flat out call them idiots and suggest that it wouldn't matter if it was random noise filling up the space, and so in that case you might as well have just left the original score in to save yourself time and money. You're suggesting they wouldn't know the difference, right? Right.

I'm suggesting the music played int he 90s is a type of music that would appeal more to kids watching an action show than the original score it had. Nothing to do with intelligence but preference.

I could even go as far to say that it could have slipped under the radar as an "anime" just like Pokemon did by replacing so many things when the show came out. That goes beyond just the music though. Its more Goku the superhero and things like that I'm talking about.

[ABED]

If you (that being a general "you", whomever it is suggesting this) want to say that it was necessary to replace the music because of American kids and whatever, I'm then saying you might as well take it all the way and go out and just flat out call them idiots and suggest that it wouldn't matter if it was random noise filling up the space, and so in that case you might as well have just left the original score in to save yourself time and money. You're suggesting they wouldn't know the difference, right? Right.

I'm suggesting the music played int he 90s is a type of music that would appeal more to kids watching an action show than the original score it had. Nothing to do with intelligence but preference.

I could even go as far to say that it could have slipped under the radar as an "anime" just like Pokemon did by replacing so many things when the show came out.

So the difference between success and not success is musical score? How do you know what would appeal more to kids? Again, Batman proved that good writing and acting draw viewers. I grew up in the 90s and I don't remember shows having techno scores that never end.

Off the topic of music, one thing that FUNi seems to constantly neglect is their home video releases, at least for DB stuff. There are over 500 episodes, and they released the discs with only 3/4 episodes a pop. If we couldn't get more per disc, it would've been nice if they put some effort into the package art and the special features. One of the first ones they could've done is behind the scenes stuff, interviews, and documentaries, such as why they made the decisions they did to move their operations from Canada to Texas. I love that stuff. On the last disc of Yu Yu Hakusho there were several commentaries that were informative and fun, in addition to Yama's Notebook which was a feature that delved into references that an American audience might not get. For DBZ one such bit of trivia might be explaining why characters sneeze when they are insulted by someone behind their back.

[Beji]

So the difference between success and not success is musical score? How do you know what would appeal more to kids? Again, Batman proved that good writing and acting draw viewers. I grew up in the 90s and I don't remember shows having techno scores that never end.

No... You just posted before my edit because I knew people would jump to that accusation.... I would know because I was a kid, and so were all of the kids in my school, and all of them who I knew outside of school. How even other people refer back to Dragon Ball when you ask if they remember. It wasn't just the music...

If you didn't read it I had

I could even go as far to say that it could have slipped under the radar as an "anime" just like Pokemon did by replacing so many things when the show came out. That goes beyond just the music though. Its more Goku the superhero and things like that I'm talking about.

[ABED]

I was also a kid during that time. Many of the things that were industry standard during that time were probably taken for granted with regard to kids' programming regardless of the validity of their perceptions. Goku is plenty superheroic without having to act like a superhero. The action would still be there and that was the main drawing point for many of us when they first saw it. There wasn't the glut of anime on the air at the time so DBZ stood out in terms of look and content.

I would also like to point out that Pokemon wasn't just an anime, it was a video game and I think much of the show's popularity stemmed from the enjoyable game.

[Beji]

I would also like to point out that Pokemon wasn't just an anime, it was a video game and I think much of the show's popularity stemmed from the enjoyable game.

Yeah that's why I said id like to xD but pokemon was sort of an exception comparing the anime to the videogame which did better? That answer is clear.