Kai Moments vs. Z Moments

[Nikkolas]

So it occurs to me that we can talk all day about voices and scripts and music but these are all only aspects of the whole - mere pieces of the puzzle. The combination of these pieces are what determines how great a scene is.

(forewarning - I'm only talking about the dub here. If you want to compare Japanese scenes or whatever, feel free)

And so my question to you all is which version your favorite scenes do you prefer and why?

For Kai, I vastly prefer Goku's Super Saiyan speech. It has nothing at all to do with me hating "ally to good" or any of that. It's the simple fact that Schemmel has improved immeasurably since Season 3 in the acting department. What's more, the Yamamoto music enhanced the moment to perfection. Whatever Faulconer piece was playing wasn't bad but it was nearly dramatic enough for the emotion of the scene. Then again, there wasn't much emotion in the Z scene... Goku was only angry in Kai. Kinda jarring when you compare the two scenes.

For Z, I vastly prefer the climactic Kamehameha struggle between Gohan and Cell. I fully acknowledge Kai had a better script but things like Cell saying "this must be hard for you with all those wounds. I'm sure this makes them burn!" is just one bit of a whole episode where I think the writers really stepped it up. What's more, the Faulconer track placement was perfectly on target here and I'll never be able to imagine Cell being vaporized without hearing Ginyu Transformation.

[Metalwario64]

For Kai, I vastly prefer Goku's Super Saiyan speech. It has nothing at all to do with me hating "ally to good" or any of that. It's the simple fact that Schemmel has improved immeasurably since Season 3 in the acting department. What's more, the Yamamoto music enhanced the moment to perfection. Whatever Faulconer piece was playing wasn't bad but it was nearly dramatic enough for the emotion of the scene. Then again, there wasn't much emotion in the Z scene... Goku was only angry in Kai. Kinda jarring when you compare the two scenes.

I actually think that Kai's Kikuchi piece used in that scene was perfect. It went very well with Goku's rage. The Z placement and Kai's Yamamoto track, while decent, both gave it a "heroic" vibe, when it's supposed to be Goku describing his rage. Faulconer's track was very peaceful and generic. It doesn't get any feel across at all.

Those same pieces for Z Kikuchi and Yamamoto were used in the 20x Kamehameha scene, and were much more fitting there.

[Ringworm128]

Even though it's kind of corny I still prefer the "million times stronger" line from the Z version of the Kaioken X20 scene it's one piece of dialogue I would love to hear with better actingand I also like the idea of having each character laugh individually instead of it just being Freeza.

[songohan619]

I really prefer Trunks powering up against Cell in Kai, thanks to "Lone Warrior"!

[Nikkolas]

Even though it's kind of corny I still prefer the "million times stronger" line from the Z version of the Kaioken X20 scene it's one piece of dialogue I would love to hear with better actingand I also like the idea of having each character laugh individually instead of it just being Freeza.

Funny you should mention the Kaioken x 20 - I prefer the Kai version of that too.

I was actually completely blown away by it in fact because I really didn't remember that part of the fightt. I went back and watched the Z version and I saw why. In Z, Goku does the Kaioken and then he hits Freeza a couple of times and then he just does kamehameha. I think we all know the difference between kamehameha and Ka-Me-Ha-Me-Ha and for Z it was the former, unremarkable delivery of the move.

In Kai, the x20 Kamehameha was pretty awesome as it was Goku basically hitting Freeza with every ounce of power he could conjure up. It had the appropriate build up and didn't feel like just any old kamehameha like the Z version did for me.

That's probably the fault of Season 3 dubbing though.

[TheBlackPaladin]

I actually think that Kai's Kikuchi piece used in that scene was perfect. It went very well with Goku's rage. The Z placement and Kai's Yamamoto track, while decent, both gave it a "heroic" vibe, when it's supposed to be Goku describing his rage.

An interesting perspective, and one that I hadn't thought of until you wrote it. I suppose, from that angle, it is fitting.

However, before you said that, I was going to use the "I am the Super Saiyan, Son Goku!" scene as an example of one of the most unfortunate victims of the Music Scandal. I massively preferred both the Kikuchi-Z and the Yamamoto pieces there. So much so that now, whenever I hear that particular Yamamoto piece, the line that I associate with it is, "I am the Super Saiyan, Son Goku!" Ultimately, I still think I prefer the Yamamoto music there. It still fits in that it's speaking to the broader idea of Freeza finally being defeated by a Saiyan, and the Saiyan race finally being avenged despite all of Freeza's attempts to make sure that didn't happen. It's "triumphant" more so than "heroic," a powerful way of musically speaking to the fact that, for all of the antagonist's efforts, he still didn't win in the end. However, after your analysis, Metalwario64, I no longer consider the Kikuchi-Kai placement as inappropriate as I used to.

That was one of the best damn moments in the whole dub for me. I've often pointed to that scene as a scene that sums up everything that went horribly wrong with the DBZ dub and everything that went beautifully right with the Kai dub. What's even cooler about that scene is that, according to Sean Schemmel, in the original concluding line of that monologue, the script that he was given still had "Goku" instead of "Son Goku." He said that they recorded a few takes of that line as it was written, but that he asked to do one take with "Son Goku," and that apparently that was the take they decided to use. Between the acting, the writing, the improvements that were made here in comparison to the Z dub, the fact he said "Son" (and pronounced it properly), and the fact that it was Schemmel's idea...made that speech my favorite moment in the whole Kai dub so far.

...Heh...actually, now that I'm thinking about it, perhaps "real life" factors influenced my preference of the Yamamoto piece. Like I said, it had this "triumphant" feel to it, and that's definitely how I felt watching the scene, like FUNimation had triumphed in finally, after all this time, getting it (so beautifully) right.

[Ajay]

It's not exactly a significant moment but when Trunks sees the Androids in the regular timeline for the first time, his reaction is just fantastic in Kai compared to Z.

Z dub: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASCPEUFL ... page#t=57s

Kai dub: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASCPEUFL ... age#t=111s

I just adore the delivery of 'Not so long as I'm alive to stop you!'. I don't know, it's not significant or anything but I get shivers when I hear that line in Kai.

[ABED]

There's a moment in the DBZ dub where Vegeta goes "Curse you, BOY!" to Trunks. Sabat's delivery always makes me laugh.

[DragonBoxZTheMovies]

Goku arriving at the battle with the Saiyans.

This was the first time Braveheart Challenges the Strong was used so it hadn't been played into the ground yet. Got me hooked on Kai almost instantly.

As much as I like Cha-La-Head-Cha-La, it didn't really belong in a scene that was coming straight after the death of Piccolo.

[DBZ Mick]

I thought the one year of training for the arrival of Vegeta and Nappa was generally better handled in Z. It was just a little too quick in Kai. Actually, scrap that... make it most of the early Saiyan arc is better in Z. Kai is better when Vegeta and Nappa land onwards though.

I still kinda miss the Goku trying to fix his spaceship before it hits that sun filler... as well as the gravity machine going crazy in that magnetic storm (Goku breaking his back was especially nasty). I even kinda miss the Space Orphans because the whole setup of Freeza and his organisation was quite well done through the kids backstory. However none of these filler are really needed.

[OmegaRockman]

For the most part I prefer Kai's dub, but there are two scenes off the top of my head that I prefer in the Z dub. The first was the infamous Vegeta's Wrath scene; the Ocean version, in my opinion, had better dialogue and AMAZING acting. Drummond really nailed it there. I enjoyed Sabat in the Kai version, but the dialogue is a little lacking to me. I feel that the Kai dub version uses too many damns just for the sake of using more damns. Again, Drummond's delivery was just so freaking amazing. I also think that the simplicity of the lines makes me more convinced of Vegeta's anger in that scene. I don't remember what theJapanese version was like because I've only seen it once in its Kai version while I was watching as it premiered in Japan, so I can't compare at the moment. I'll have to pop in my Kai DVD again sometime and check it out. I'd check out the original Z version as well, but unfortunately that's a Dragon Box 2 episode, and Box 2 is the only one I don't have. Damn you internet scalpers!

The other scene I preferred in the Z dub was Goku's first SSJ transformation (dub with Kikuichi score, though I'm not afraid to admit that I like the Falcouner version as well). Though Schemmel's acting was definitely better in Kai, I thought the dialogue was better in Z. The "I won't let you get away with this! I won't let you... " seems closer to the original Japanese "How dare you!" than "You ruthless, heartless, bastard! I will make you suffer!" Again, the simplicity of the lines works to the scene's advantage here. In fact, I wish they'd kept that dialogue in Kai, or had Goku say "How dare you!" over and over like in the Japanese version. The repetition of the line really conveys Goku's anger well both in the Japanese version as well as the Z dub version.

You know, it seems that whenever Z dub really nailed a scene dialogue-wise, the Kai writers feel like they have to change it because they don't want ANY reminders of the "mondo cool" days, no matter how well the Z dub reflected the Japanese version. I can't remember any others off the top of my head at the moment, but I'm sure there were more than just the SSJ scene. I don't blame them, because some fans would understandably get mad over the recycled dialogue, but it's a shame when said dialogue is good. The old dub may have been bad for the most part, but there were those rare times where it handled a scene perfectly (ignoring the music changes). Oh well. At least the Japanese version doesn't have to worry about setbacks like that.

[Ringworm128]

Now I DON'T mind the infamous "hope of the universe" speech. Yeah, yeah I know "it isn't fitting for Goku blah blah blah". But to me the Kai dub version KILLS it simply for the acting. In Z Schemmel sounds like he's reading off a script and he sounds like he has a bright tone to his voice but in Kai he sounds dark, angry and almost menacing. When he says "I AM THE SUPER SAIYAN! SON GOKU"! you f..king believe it. Comparing the Z dub version to the Kai dub version is like comparing this http://youtu.be/EOSvzHRWlww?t=9s to this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4qgTk8Vfyc or this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckZWT33DQ78

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I love both DBZ & DBKai equally. If I'm going to watch the whole series, I would prefer Kai over Z. HOWEVER, if I want to see my favorite moments, I'll watch usually watch the Z versions of them.

[Jackal puFF]

I like the saiyan arc better in Z and everything else is pretty much a good pace in Kai.

[Ringworm128]

The scene where Jheese gets punched in the face is much better in the UUE dub of Z then in the other versions. Chris Sabat's scream/crying is done so well that it makes the scene even funnier then it already is. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9v2ITi3KX7o

[Jackal puFF]

The scene where Jheese gets punched in the face is much better in the UUE dub of Z then in the other versions. Chris Sabat's scream/crying is done so well that it makes the scene even funnier then it already is. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9v2ITi3KX7o

LOL I don't remember that being so funny.

[dbzfan7]

Comparing impactful moments is kinda unfair for Kai since I experienced them already in Z. Kai can't replicate a chilling event I first had in Z when I know how everything plays out. This pretty much takes away the shock and chilling effect I had as a newcomer.

[Kakarot88]

In my opinion the music in Kai makes the series almost unwatchable. I prefer the music in the Funi Z dub with electric guitars over Kai's trumpets and rattles. My opinion, not saying it is right it is just what I like. (Caveat: I like in the Z Japanese original dub the music with that but again dislike the Japanese music with the American cast and instead prefer Bruce Faulconer's score with said cast). I find the music for Z makes it "mondo cool."

[ABED]

What rattles?

[Kakarot88]

What rattles?

The baby rattle comment. That's actually a vibraslap, which is supposed to sound creepy I guess, but yeah it just sounds silly. Here's a great video on it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNkkvNyMflg

It does appear in the Faulconer Productions score btw...and rather prominently, just in a creative and unrecognizable way. Unlike Kai. I'll stop there