Goku And Gotenks

[Undertaker]

How does Goku compare to Gotenks? I have SSJ3 Gotenks > SSJ Gotenks (Post) > SSJ Gotenks (Pre) > SSJ3 Goku > Base Gotenks (Post).

How do you think Goku compare to Base Gotenks, SSJ Gotenks and SSJ3 Gotenks?

[Hitiro]

How does Goku compare to Gotenks? I have SSJ3 Gotenks > SSJ Gotenks (Post) > SSJ Gotenks (Pre) > SSJ3 Goku > Base Gotenks (Post).

How do you think Goku compare to Base Gotenks, SSJ Gotenks and SSJ3 Gotenks?

I would say something like: SSJ3 Gotenks > SSJ Gotenks (Post) > SSJ3 Goku > SSJ Gotenks (Pre) > Fat Boo > Base Gotenks (Pre+Post).

Pre-RoSaT SSJ Gotenks is probably strong enough to fight Fat Boo but we know Goku wasn't trying his hardest against Fat Boo when they fought. SSJ3 Goku at 100% would more than likely demolish Fat Boo but SSJ Gotenks at the time would have been a more even match with Gotenks slightly having the advantage. However Goku seems to believe the fusion is just extreme enough for the boys to win so the gap between Fat Boo and Gotenks would still be big enough for Gotenks to close the deal.

[Saiyan Prince Vegeta]

SSJ3 Gotenks > SSJ Gotenks (post) > SSJ3 Goku > SSJ Gotenks (Pre) > Base Gotenks (Post+Pre)

I have SSJ3 Gotenks 12-10 x stronger than SSJ3 Goku, and SSJ Gotenks (post) 1.5-1.25 x stronger than SSJ3 Goku.

[VegettoEX]

Please define what you are asking for. Comparing what? I'll go out on a limb and assume you're talking about character strengths, but when you have other threads very close to this one comparing intelligence, speed, etc., you need to make it more explicit.

[MDSTSSJ]

My personal opinion:

Base Gotenks is very very weak compared with SSJ3 Kakarotto obviously.

SSJ3 Kakarotto is X4 stronger than SSJ Gotenks. I think this because is useless to think that a fusion among SSJ boys, only reaches the power of a SSJ and there was no assumption that SSJ would be enough because Goku knows about children great powers separately but, he even has some doubts.

SSJ3 Gotenks is X3 than SSJ3 Goku bacause SSJ3 Gotenks is X1 stronger than Super Boo.

[Undertaker]

How does Goku compare to Gotenks? I have SSJ3 Gotenks > SSJ Gotenks (Post) > SSJ Gotenks (Pre) > SSJ3 Goku > Base Gotenks (Post).

How do you think Goku compare to Base Gotenks, SSJ Gotenks and SSJ3 Gotenks?

I would say something like: SSJ3 Gotenks > SSJ Gotenks (Post) > SSJ3 Goku > SSJ Gotenks (Pre) > Fat Boo > Base Gotenks (Pre+Post).

Pre-RoSaT SSJ Gotenks is probably strong enough to fight Fat Boo but we know Goku wasn't trying his hardest against Fat Boo when they fought. SSJ3 Goku at 100% would more than likely demolish Fat Boo but SSJ Gotenks at the time would have been a more even match with Gotenks slightly having the advantage. However Goku seems to believe the fusion is just extreme enough for the boys to win so the gap between Fat Boo and Gotenks would still be big enough for Gotenks to close the deal.

Well, SSJ Gotenks (Pre) > SSJ3 Goku was stated and not contradicted

[Undertaker]

My personal opinion:

Base Gotenks is very very weak compared with SSJ3 Kakarotto obviously.

SSJ3 Kakarotto is X4 stronger than SSJ Gotenks. I think this because is useless to think that a fusion among SSJ boys, only reaches the power of a SSJ and there was no assumption that SSJ would be enough because Goku knows about children great powers separately but, he even has some doubts.

SSJ3 Gotenks is X3 than SSJ3 Goku bacause SSJ3 Gotenks is X1 stronger than Super Boo.

SSJ Gotenks (Pre) > SSJ3 Goku is stated and not contradicted

[MDSTSSJ]

My personal opinion:

Base Gotenks is very very weak compared with SSJ3 Kakarotto obviously.

SSJ3 Kakarotto is X4 stronger than SSJ Gotenks. I think this because is useless to think that a fusion among SSJ boys, only reaches the power of a SSJ and there was no assumption that SSJ would be enough because Goku knows about children great powers separately but, he even has some doubts.

SSJ3 Gotenks is X3 than SSJ3 Goku bacause SSJ3 Gotenks is X1 stronger than Super Boo.

SSJ Gotenks (Pre) > SSJ3 Goku is stated and not contradicted

Where is stated? Goku lies ( fact ) at that time saying that he could not win against contained Fat Boo when we see him playing instead of fighting and only amazed by the tricks that he have.

[Undertaker]

My personal opinion:

Base Gotenks is very very weak compared with SSJ3 Kakarotto obviously.

SSJ3 Kakarotto is X4 stronger than SSJ Gotenks. I think this because is useless to think that a fusion among SSJ boys, only reaches the power of a SSJ and there was no assumption that SSJ would be enough because Goku knows about children great powers separately but, he even has some doubts.

SSJ3 Gotenks is X3 than SSJ3 Goku bacause SSJ3 Gotenks is X1 stronger than Super Boo.

SSJ Gotenks (Pre) > SSJ3 Goku is stated and not contradicted

Where is stated? Goku lies ( fact ) at that time saying that he could not win against contained Fat Boo when we see him playing instead of fighting and only amazed by the tricks that he have.

But it was not contradicted. He lied for the sake of the kids being able to beat Boo. SSJ Gotenks (Pre) was sensed from the Kaioshin Realm.

[Darkprince410]

My personal opinion:

Base Gotenks is very very weak compared with SSJ3 Kakarotto obviously.

SSJ3 Kakarotto is X4 stronger than SSJ Gotenks. I think this because is useless to think that a fusion among SSJ boys, only reaches the power of a SSJ and there was no assumption that SSJ would be enough because Goku knows about children great powers separately but, he even has some doubts.

SSJ3 Gotenks is X3 than SSJ3 Goku bacause SSJ3 Gotenks is X1 stronger than Super Boo.

Actually, it's pretty clear that he felt that Ssj Gotenks would be enough, since he was expecting that, once they mastered the fusion dance, they'd be able to beat him. He didn't expect them to use the Room of Spirit and Time, nor did he anticipate them reaching Super Saiya-jin 3. While he felt it was a gamble to put the future of Earth in the hands of the boys, he was confident in their power and the power of the fusion (thus, confident in the power of Super Saiya-jin Gotenks) to take that gamble.

If Ssj3 Goku is 4x stronger than Ssj Gotenks, then Ssj3 Gotenks would at best be only 2x stronger than Ssj3 Goku.

Ssj2 = 2x Ssj
Ssj3 = 4x Ssj2

Ssj3 Goku = 4x Ssj Gotenks, thus Ssj2 Goku = Ssj Gotenks
Ssj3 Gotenks = 8x Ssj Gotenks
Ssj3 Goku = 4x Ssj2 Goku
Ssj3 Gotenks = 2x Ssj3 Goku

Where is stated? Goku lies ( fact ) at that time saying that he could not win against contained Fat Boo when we see him playing instead of fighting and only amazed by the tricks that he have.

Even though Goku was lying about his ability to defeat Buu, nothing is stated or suggested that indicates that he was lying about how powerful Gotenks would be. As I've mentioned in the other two topics about the situation, Piccolo, who is very vocal when it comes to someone's power not being as high as it should be or judging one person's strength in comparison to another, made no indication that Ssj Gotenks (before the Room of Spirit and Time) wasn't as powerful as Goku said they'd be. Both before Ssj Gotenks and well after, Piccolo made repeated remarks when it came to someone's strength in comparison to another (basically acting like a battle power analyzer for the audience), so why would he suddenly not say anything this one time, unless Gotenks was as powerful as Goku said he'd be.

Likewise, when on Kaioushin's planet, Goku noticed that Evil Buu's ki was gone, and then made the remark that he couldn't sense Gotenks' ki either (under the initial assumption that Gotenks had defeated him). This points more credence to Ssj Gotenks (pre RoSaT) being Ssj3 tier, since it's established that it takes a ki level at least on par with the level of ki Ssj3 Goku used when fighting Fat Buu in order to be sensed on Kaioushin's planet, and for Goku to comment that he isn't able to sense him indicates that he felt that he should be able to sense him puts Gotenks in that power tier.

[MDSTSSJ]

But it was not contradicted. He lied for the sake of the kids being able to beat Boo. SSJ Gotenks (Pre) was sensed from the Kaioshin Realm.

Is not contradicted but Goku always assuming and assuming is not a final conclusion. He lies because he is dead and is not his responsibility to defeat Boo.

SSJ3 Kakarotto, SSJ Gotenks was sensed from Kaioshin realm and Ultimate Gohan was sensed from Earth, so we could say that they have practically or more o less the same powers? No, not even close! That statement my friend, is not determinant.

Cheers

[Darkprince410]

But it was not contradicted. He lied for the sake of the kids being able to beat Boo. SSJ Gotenks (Pre) was sensed from the Kaioshin Realm.

Is not contradicted but Goku always assuming and assuming is not a final conclusion. He lies because he is dead and is not his responsibility to defeat Boo.

SSJ3 Kakarotto, SSJ Gotenks was sensed from Kaioshin realm and Ultimate Gohan was sensed from Earth, so we could say that they have practically or more o less the same powers? No, not even close! That statement my friend, is not determinant.

Cheers

He lied about his own ability to beat Buu, but that doesn't mean that he would or did lie about Gotenks' capacity to defeat Buu. Goku was wanting to take himself out of the picture as far as protecting the Earth, but when it came to his family and friends, he would have killed Fat Buu if he didn't believe that the boys would be able to beat him.

[MDSTSSJ]

But it was not contradicted. He lied for the sake of the kids being able to beat Boo. SSJ Gotenks (Pre) was sensed from the Kaioshin Realm.

Is not contradicted but Goku always assuming and assuming is not a final conclusion. He lies because he is dead and is not his responsibility to defeat Boo.

SSJ3 Kakarotto, SSJ Gotenks was sensed from Kaioshin realm and Ultimate Gohan was sensed from Earth, so we could say that they have practically or more o less the same powers? No, not even close! That statement my friend, is not determinant.

Cheers

He lied about his own ability to beat Buu, but that doesn't mean that he would or did lie about Gotenks' capacity to defeat Buu. Goku was wanting to take himself out of the picture as far as protecting the Earth, but when it came to his family and friends, he would have killed Fat Buu if he didn't believe that the boys would be able to beat him.

Yes I agree with you!!

[Vice]

Super Buu, Gotenks and Gohan are on an entirely different realm of power than Goku, and that's putting it lightly. Their power is enough to rip holes in dimensions. Goku just does not compare.

[MDSTSSJ]

Super Buu, Gotenks and Gohan are on an entirely different realm of power than Goku, and that's putting it lightly. They're power is enough to rip holes in dimensions, Goku just does not compare.

For your words, it seems like the others are 20 times stronger than Kakarotto and that´s not true, really!!

Ssj2 = 2x Ssj
Ssj3 = 4x Ssj2

Ssj3 Goku = 4x Ssj Gotenks, thus Ssj2 Goku = Ssj Gotenks
Ssj3 Gotenks = 8x Ssj Gotenks
Ssj3 Goku = 4x Ssj2 Goku
Ssj3 Gotenks = 2x Ssj3 Goku

[hleV]

SS Gotenks was believed to beat Fat Boo in less than 30 minutes and this was never contradicted.
SS2 Majin Vegeta was no match for Fat Boo, so the same goes to SS2 Goku.

SS Gotenks is stronger than SS2 Goku.

[Vice]

For your words, it seems like the others are 20 times stronger than Kakarotto and that´s not true, really!!

Uh, why not? Goku wasn't anything special in the Buu Arc.

[MDSTSSJ]

For your words, it seems like the others are 20 times stronger than Kakarotto and that´s not true, really!!

Uh, why not? Goku wasn't anything special in the Buu Arc.

Mmm his transformation on SSJ3 itself, is special.

Yeah, in Boo´s Arc Kakarotto is not stronger than Gotenks or Ultimate Gohan but, not by too much!

[Kamiccolo9]

For your words, it seems like the others are 20 times stronger than Kakarotto and that´s not true, really!!

Uh, why not? Goku wasn't anything special in the Buu Arc.

Mmm his transformation on SSJ3 itself, is special.

Yeah, in Boo´s Arc Kakarotto is not stronger than Gotenks or Ultimate Gohan but, not by too much!

Well, if SSJ1 Gotenks = SSJ3 Goku, then SSJ3 Gotenks is 8 times stronger than SSJ3 Goku. That's a pretty big difference. And Gohan is even stronger.

[MDSTSSJ]

SS Gotenks was believed to beat Fat Boo in less than 30 minutes and this was never contradicted.
SS2 Majin Vegeta was no match for Fat Boo, so the same goes to SS2 Goku.

SS Gotenks is stronger than SS2 Goku.

Yeah, was believed but there was no assumption that SSJ would be enough.

Mmm I think that SSJ2 Majin Vegeta and SSJ2 Kakarotto don´t have the same powers because SSJ2 Goku fought well and not seriously against Pure Boo who is stronger than contained Fat Boo.