Losing bodies in otherworld

[ThePrinceOfSaiyans]

Not sure if this discussion has come up before, but in Buu Saga, Vegeta dies and loses his body.

Although Frieza, Ginyu Force, Cell, etc are visibly seen in hell with bodies.

Any opinions on why this is?

[hleV]

Fillers.

[TheGmGoken]

Filler. Never happen in the manga. If you go to hell. You're fucked, You get washed out and reincarnated

[Hellspawn28]

In the filler scene, stated if Buu blew up Grand Kai's planet that everyone would be gone forever. It seem like GT created a plot hole that the dead are immortal now in the afterlife.

[Kamiccolo9]

In the filler scene, stated if Buu blew up Grand Kai's planet that everyone would be gone forever. It seem like GT created a plot hole that the dead are immortal now in the afterlife.

Z did that way earlier than GT. Dead people were immortal in the Otherworld Tournament. The filler actually predates the manga's rule on dead people dying forever.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Didn't Raditz attack Emna Daio when he died? It was mentioned in the manga I believe.

[Kamiccolo9]

Didn't Raditz attack Emna Daio when he died? It was mentioned in the manga I believe.

Chapter: 205 (DBZ 11), P8.4-6, P9.1

Context: talking about Raditz being sent to Hell
Goku: “Didn’t he struggle?!”
Enma: “He struggled and struggled and struggled, but I subdued him.”
Goku: “Beating that incredible guy…You’re really strong! [to God] Maybe I oughta be trained by him!!”
God: “Lower your voice, idiot! Don’t let Lord Enma hear you! Lord Kaio’s the stronger of the two anyway.”

It could mean he attacked him, but I take it to mean that his soul struggled against going to Hell. Goku seems to think that they fought, but why would he know?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I believe that Toriyama wanted to pass the message that Enma Daio was very strong, and stronger than Raditz.

[ThePrinceOfSaiyans]

The exact moment I am speaking of is when SSJ3 Goku is fighting Kid Buu and for a brief few seconds you see all the previous Villians watching in shock from hell, then Babidi cheering on Goku for Buu's betrayal. I guess I find it hard to view it as filler when it was only a short scene which was put in part of the main saga story and battle.

[Kamiccolo9]

The exact moment I am speaking of is when SSJ3 Goku is fighting Kid Buu and for a brief few seconds you see all the previous Villians watching in shock from hell, then Babidi cheering on Goku for Buu's betrayal. I guess I find it hard to view it as filler when it was only a short scene which was put in part of the main saga story and battle.

There's plenty of filler in the main fights. Especially that one. The whole SSJ2 Goku vs Buu is filler as well.

[Dorexx]

Since no one answered your question so far, I'll give it a shot.

I've heard quite a few theories on this and most people settle on "they kept it because they were extremely powerful". I've also heard others say that it could be part of whatever punishment they might have received after dying, which makes some sense. You'd need a body to be punished, to some extent. I think it's either that, or they simply ran away from Enma before he could do anything, somehow, which Vegeta probably could have done as well, but didn't because, well, that would be pretty silly after he just sacrificed himself, and seemed more than fine with the idea of dying. It could be both too, depending on the person being judged. It would really fun to see how all the judgements went out on everyone.

[ThePrinceOfSaiyans]

Since no one answered your question so far, I'll give it a shot.

I've heard quite a few theories on this and most people settle on "they kept it because they were extremely powerful". I've also heard others say that it could be part of whatever punishment they might have received after dying, which makes some sense. You'd need a body to be punished, to some extent. I think it's either that, or they simply ran away from Enma before he could do anything, somehow, which Vegeta probably could have done as well, but didn't because, well, that would be pretty silly after he just sacrificed himself, and seemed more than fine with the idea of dying. It could be both too, depending on the person being judged. It would really fun to see how all the judgements went out on everyone.

Yeah, I thought of the power idea but Vegeta could do anything they could since he was far more powerful.

I also thought of the torture thing... So I could believe that, since everyone did not have bodies in otherworld but Hell was shown with bodies in a few scenarios.

Also, shortly before that scene were it shows them all watching the fight, it is said that all the previous Villians over run Hell, Pikkon and Goku go to stop them, perhaps they got their bodies back through that method who knows.... But was something I had wondered about, thanks for replying.

[Kamiccolo9]

Since no one answered your question so far, I'll give it a shot.

I've heard quite a few theories on this and most people settle on "they kept it because they were extremely powerful". I've also heard others say that it could be part of whatever punishment they might have received after dying, which makes some sense. You'd need a body to be punished, to some extent. I think it's either that, or they simply ran away from Enma before he could do anything, somehow, which Vegeta probably could have done as well, but didn't because, well, that would be pretty silly after he just sacrificed himself, and seemed more than fine with the idea of dying. It could be both too, depending on the person being judged. It would really fun to see how all the judgements went out on everyone.

Numerous people answered him. It's filler. Which isn't bad in and of itself, but this filler goes against what's in the manga, and even causes plot holes in the anime. There is no logic behind it other than "Toei wanted them to keep their bodies."

[Dorexx]

Since no one answered your question so far, I'll give it a shot.

I've heard quite a few theories on this and most people settle on "they kept it because they were extremely powerful". I've also heard others say that it could be part of whatever punishment they might have received after dying, which makes some sense. You'd need a body to be punished, to some extent. I think it's either that, or they simply ran away from Enma before he could do anything, somehow, which Vegeta probably could have done as well, but didn't because, well, that would be pretty silly after he just sacrificed himself, and seemed more than fine with the idea of dying. It could be both too, depending on the person being judged. It would really fun to see how all the judgements went out on everyone.

Numerous people answered him. It's filler. Which isn't bad in and of itself, but this filler goes against what's in the manga, and even causes plot holes in the anime. There is no logic behind it other than "Toei wanted them to keep their bodies."

Whether it's filler or not wasn't the question, and it's also an out-of-universe matter. If you can't find any logic behind it other than "just because" then don't bother posting.

[Kamiccolo9]

Since no one answered your question so far, I'll give it a shot.

I've heard quite a few theories on this and most people settle on "they kept it because they were extremely powerful". I've also heard others say that it could be part of whatever punishment they might have received after dying, which makes some sense. You'd need a body to be punished, to some extent. I think it's either that, or they simply ran away from Enma before he could do anything, somehow, which Vegeta probably could have done as well, but didn't because, well, that would be pretty silly after he just sacrificed himself, and seemed more than fine with the idea of dying. It could be both too, depending on the person being judged. It would really fun to see how all the judgements went out on everyone.

Numerous people answered him. It's filler. Which isn't bad in and of itself, but this filler goes against what's in the manga, and even causes plot holes in the anime. There is no logic behind it other than "Toei wanted them to keep their bodies."

Whether it's filler or not wasn't the question, and it's also an out-of-universe matter. If you can't find any logic behind it other than "just because" then don't bother posting.

This is an in universe forum. This filler violates the manga, and it even contradicts the anime itself. There is no logical answer behind it. It's a plothole.

[Dorexx]

This is an in universe forum.

This is what I just told you. So stop giving out-of-universe answers. "It's filler", "Toei wanted to", "it's a plothole" are out-of-universe answers.

[Kamiccolo9]

This is an in universe forum.

This is what I just told you. So stop giving out-of-universe answers. "It's filler", "Toei wanted to", "it's a plothole" are out-of-universe answers.

It's filler that violates what we are told, repeatedly, in universe. There is no logic. It contradicts both the manga and itself.

[ThePrinceOfSaiyans]

Yeah, I'm aware the scenario is Filler, but I was more aiming at your opinions of why the situation happened, for example, whether Filler or not, they seen could of been produced but they could of been spirits (Small clouds drawn)

That was the main point really, since Vegeta had no body, Yema said himself to Vegeta that he has his body back and he wants to offer him a chance to face Majin Buu, then those in Hell have a body, I understand you can state it's filler but I was more thinking of why it happened and your opinions on it since they should have lost their bodies.

Perhaps it was a mistake or plot hole but thanks to those who gave their opinion and I apologize since I guess I could of been clearer in my original question.

[Kamiccolo9]

Yeah, I'm aware the scenario is Filler, but I was more aiming at your opinions of why the situation happened, for example, whether Filler or not, they seen could of been produced but they could of been spirits (Small clouds drawn)

That was the main point really, since Vegeta had no body, Yema said himself to Vegeta that he has his body back and he wants to offer him a chance to face Majin Buu, then those in Hell have a body, I understand you can state it's filler but I was more thinking of why it happened and your opinions on it since they should have lost their bodies.

Perhaps it was a mistake or plot hole but thanks to those who gave their opinion and I apologize since I guess I could of been clearer in my original question.

Well, there is no way to reconcile this filler with the manga, or the accurate parts of the anime, so you have to theorize about it on it's own merit.
It can't have anything to do with power, since Vegeta, Piccolo, Gohan, Krillin, 18, Goten, and Trunks didn't keep their bodies in the Buu Arc, and they were all much stronger than the Freeza (if you count the filler with Krillin. All the others are much stronger than Freeza, even in the manga). And Chi-Chi, Bulma, and Videl all manage to keep their bodies in heaven, even though we know that Bulma isn't pure good, and Videl likely isn't either.

Hell in Dragon Ball isn't a place of punishment. It's more of a holding pen for souls who are getting purified and reincarnated. If you look at the scenes we see of filler hell, aside from the Oni and Cell and co., everyone is a soul, and they don't seem especially tormented. Raditz didn't keep his body, otherwise Goku would have sensed him in hell, and Vegeta didn't keep his body, and he was as evil as Freeza was when he died the first time, yet he didn't keep his body either, so being really evil isn't a requirement.

There isn't really an answer to this other than "it's inconsistent filler."

[ThePrinceOfSaiyans]

Yeah, I'm aware the scenario is Filler, but I was more aiming at your opinions of why the situation happened, for example, whether Filler or not, they seen could of been produced but they could of been spirits (Small clouds drawn)

That was the main point really, since Vegeta had no body, Yema said himself to Vegeta that he has his body back and he wants to offer him a chance to face Majin Buu, then those in Hell have a body, I understand you can state it's filler but I was more thinking of why it happened and your opinions on it since they should have lost their bodies.

Perhaps it was a mistake or plot hole but thanks to those who gave their opinion and I apologize since I guess I could of been clearer in my original question.

Well, there is no way to reconcile this filler with the manga, or the accurate parts of the anime, so you have to theorize about it on it's own merit.
It can't have anything to do with power, since Vegeta, Piccolo, Gohan, Krillin, 18, Goten, and Trunks didn't keep their bodies in the Buu Arc, and they were all much stronger than the Freeza (if you count the filler with Krillin. All the others are much stronger than Freeza, even in the manga). And Chi-Chi, Bulma, and Videl all manage to keep their bodies in heaven, even though we know that Bulma isn't pure good, and Videl likely isn't either.

Hell in Dragon Ball isn't a place of punishment. It's more of a holding pen for souls who are getting purified and reincarnated. If you look at the scenes we see of filler hell, aside from the Oni and Cell and co., everyone is a soul, and they don't seem especially tormented. Raditz didn't keep his body, otherwise Goku would have sensed him in hell, and Vegeta didn't keep his body, and he was as evil as Freeza was when he died the first time, yet he didn't keep his body either, so being really evil isn't a requirement.

There isn't really an answer to this other than "it's inconsistent filler."

Yes I agree punishment and power would be out of the question for the above reasons, the only other possibility which springs to mind also is the fact that around that time and saga, it was said that the villains over run hell. But I doubt this would be the reason for this since spirits wouldn't be able to over run hell and course mayhem in hell in the first place, let alone get their bodies back in a condition of a spirit.... These would be the only possibilities, that I can think of atleast and they all seem impossible or very unlikely, but it's something I have thought other and considered before, was good hearing a couple of other peoples thoughts.