Thoughts on the Saiyan Saga

[dbzfan7]

I don't know why but I never really liked this saga that much. I just don't know why. I know I didn't like Vegeta as the main villain which may be why. But it feels like something else might have bothered me. Most people love this saga. This isn't a hate thread though. I'd like to hear why it's awesome too. I just feel weird as I don't really care for this one.

[DarkPrince_92]

I'm indifferent towards it. It's the least interesting one for me, although I like what was happening as far as Goku's son debuting, his training while he's DEAD, and the team coming together to fight off some aliens. Also Vegeta's my favorite character, so I loved how badass he was when he appeared. But it doesn't hold up to the later sagas I feel, there was more going on, and things were more intense.

[TheGmGoken]

I honesty have Saiyan arc and Namek arc the same thing. With that it makes Saiyan Saga much better. Vegeta was a cool villain to. He should have been smarter IMO not a rager. His rage should had came after Saiyan Arc with losing to Earthlings and Goku. Not during the Arc. Raditz was great for what he got. Should had lasted longer. I say have Raditz live the Maskaponapo(FUCK IT SPECIAL BEAN CANNON) barely and return to Vegeta. Have Raditz being mocked. They Saiyans return. Raditz gets mocked one last time(Being compared to a Saibamen) and Turns on Vegeta and Nappa only to be killed by Vegeta with his fingerbeam and everything plays out the same. Sorry for the little re-write. Nappa was cool IMO. He wasn't to strong and wasn't weak. Like Gohan in this arc better than any arc. Piccolo and Krillin was the top dogs before Goku(Despite Krillin < Tien) which was awesome.

Only turn off from the arc was Kami. I don't even know why. I hated him in this arc.

BTW: Like it or hate it. You have to admit. Masako Nozawa was fucking awesome in this arc. This was my favorite part of ALL of her voice roles. SANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNBAIII KAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOKEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEN!!!!!!!

[DragonBoxZTheMovies]

I don't know why but I never really liked this saga that much. I just don't know why. I know I didn't like Vegeta as the main villain which may be why. But it feels like something else might have bothered me. Most people love this saga. This isn't a hate thread though. I'd like to hear why it's awesome too. I just feel weird as I don't really care for this one.

I honestly think that it's the most solid story arc in the "Z"-portion of the series. Toriyama's artwork is arguably at its peak here, great new characters, brilliant fights, plenty of drama, interesting new settings (Kaio's Planet), great character interactions and the climax. I actually enjoy the "Gohan, Kuririn and Yajirobe vs. Vegeta" portion of the fight more than the "Goku vs. Vegeta" part. Only thing I didn't particularly like is the bit with the Saibaimen

It probably loses a lot of its impact if you're seeing it before Dragon Ball, though. I can only imagine what it'd be like to be a fan in Japan at the time of its original run in Jump.

[TheGmGoken]

It probably loses a lot of its impact if you're seeing it before Dragon Ball, though. I can only imagine what it'd be like to be a fan in Japan at the time of its original run in Jump.

I'm jealous of the Japan fanbase for that exact reason. Imagine how they acted with Gohan turning SSJ2 with that ROAR.

[DBZ Mick]

DragonBoxMovies has hit the nail.

It's got some terrific artwork, great fights, the humans still at least contribute, well paced (manga-wise), great plenty of action and comedy...

[90sDBZ]

I've always really liked this saga in Z in both Funi and Ocean dubs. However I didn't enjoy it as much in Kai. Although I have only seen the edited TV version of Kai I also felt the Kai Kikuchi placement was at it's worst in this saga. Just so damn repetitive and tiresome to listen to. I enjoy Kai more in the Frieza and Android sagas because the placement gets better and there seems to be less TV cuts but this saga just bored me although I've yet to see the uncut Kai version.

Anyway if we're talking Z this saga is pretty damn epic. I actually enjoyed a lot of the training filler, particularly the Pendulum Room episode and Gohan's training as well as Goku's filler episodes with Princess Snake and the one were he goes to hell. And I didn't like how Kai shortened Nappa's epic powerup before his beatdown on Tien. Also I felt like Kai removing Gohan's episodes while doing wonders for the pacing sacrificed Gohan's character development.

Apart from that seeing all the human fighters battle side-by-side to defend the earth from the Saiyan and watching the get killed off one-by-one is just classic. This is the last time the humans are relevant power-wise and there are some cool fight scenes in there. Plus Goku vs Vegeta was one of the greatest battles in Z. One of my favourite things about this saga is how Vegeta just wouldn't stay down even after a beating, a Kamehameha, wasting energy on the power ball, getting blasted in the eye and even getting hit by a spirit bomb. Truly a badass villain.

Also just as the King Piccolo saga was the first saga in DB to feel like Z the Saiyan saga is the last saga in Z to feel like DB.

[DynasticHunter]

This is my third favorite Arc is Z. I love Vegeta, and I love seeing characters being useful and having a lot of screen time (except for Yamucha). And it introduced some really cool techniques.

[Saiga]

This is definitely my favourite arc in the series. There isn't much I dislike about this arc, except for Goku's reasoning for sparing Vegeta (better than expecting him to turn good, though, I suppose).

This arc introduced a few of the concepts that I really like about Dragon Ball. Battle powers, the Saiyans, Saiyan-human hybrids potential, gravity training and sci-fi elements. Furthermore, it introduces two of my favourite characters, Gohan and Vegeta (although I only really like Gohan from the Boo arc onwards).

[Gonstead]

I have the least amount of Nostalgia towards this segment of the series even though I remember watching it and practically got into the show via it.

[Cursed Lemon]

I adore this arc. It's the only time in DBZ in which I feel like a battle actually played out in a "realistic" fashion, where characters made rational battle decisions that actually sounded like legitimate strategy instead of gimmicks. For example, the heroes were fighting against Nappa for a while as he was powered down, and at least doing respectably. Then Nappa actually gathers his energy, and starts destroying; he doesn't transform, or achieve a "new level," he simply turns on the juice and starts wrecking things. Then later on, Piccolo remarks, "I guess we better attack before he powers up again."

Revisiting the series and hearing that line was like a breath of fresh air. After the Saiyan arc, when was the next time that somebody gathering their chi was actually relevant?

[soulnova]

I love the Saiyan Saga. It wrecked everyone without mercy. Tears were shed. And Vegeta didn't manage to kill anyone beside that saibaiman and Nappa, which I always found hilarious and I spilled my milk when I heard it referenced on DBZ Abrigded.

(Gohan has turned into a giant ape, but is not in control of himself, and is just smashing every thing in sight)
Goku: (Speaking to Gohan telepathically again) Gohan... this is daddy... I know you're feeling angry right now, but you have to focus your anger... re-remember Icarus?
(Gohan remembers seeing Icarus singing playfully and happily, until he is killed in an explosion)
Goku: (Pointing at Vegeta) He did it.
(Gohan roars angrily)
Vegeta: (Outraged) Oh that's bullsh*t! (Barely dodges a boulder Gohan tried to crush him with) I haven't killed a damn thing since I got to this god-forsaken planet... not for lack of trying, mind you.

The Namek Saga was one of the best "Dragonballs chases".

[SuperSaiyanOzaru]

This is my favorite saga in DBZ, and one of my favs overall if I include DB. I think I like the period from the 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai until the end of the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai a little bit better, but I like the Saiyan Saga better than anything before that period (so Pilaf, 21st TB, Red Ribbon, and Uranai Baba). In my opinion, Dragon Ball really came into its own with the 22nd TB and maintained excellent quality up until the battle with Freeza, then starts declining.

There are two reasons for this, and again, its just my opinion: first, the art style starts becoming really sharp and angular in the late Freeza Saga, with a "point of no return" happening when Goku transforms into a Super Saiyan. The period from the 22nd TB up until the end of the Saiyan Saga has the best art style. Early Dragon Ball (before 22nd TB) is too cartoony, and of course like I said, late DBZ is too sharp and angular and stiff. I won't get into this too much because it all depends on what you find appealing, but for my part I think the character designs are most appealing during this period.

The second reason is the fights. The 22nd TB, Piccolo Daimao Saga, 23rd TB, and Saiyan Saga all have terrific fights. In early DB, the fights are more about silliness and slapstick. The Goku-Nam and Goku-Jackie Chun fights are about the only exceptions, but almost everything else is played for comedy. But in the 22nd TB and Piccolo Daimao Arcs, the fights start getting really serious and you can tell that Toriyama put a lot of effort into their choreography. Each fight has a lot of back-and-forth as each fighter tries different techniques and strategies. Oh, and the martial arts actually seems like martial arts. Characters grab and lock and throw and parry and use all kinds of moves. Ki attacks are treated like they're special. Mystical and fantastical powers are only used to augment a character's fighting abilities. This trend continues into the Saiyan Saga: just look at the fight between Piccolo and Goku vs Raditz. Piccolo's Makkankusanpou is treated like this amazing unique thing, and the fact that it takes time to "charge up" is used for dramatic tension ("Can Goku keep Raditz busy for five minutes?" "Oh shit Raditz dodged it! NOW what're they going to do?!"). And Goku incapacitates Raditz by just getting him into a full nelson. Despite all of the fantastical ki powers, its still kung-fu fighting.

Contrast this with everything post-Freeza, and its more like superheroes than martial arts. Characters fly around at jet speed, casually lobbing glowing blobs of yellow and blue at each other, without regard to gravity or whatever. Nobody uses special techniques anymore, they just use generic energy blasts. And fights always come down to who's the strongest. Okay, to be fair, the Z-senshi have ALWAYS tried to get stronger, but at least in DB and Saiyan Saga DBZ there was lip service given to the concepts of cunning, strategem, teamwork, technique, etc. Goku was stronger than General Blue but Blue could still incapacitate Goku. Piccolo Daimao was stronger than anyone but he still feared the Mafuba. Piccolo Jr. was stronger than Krillin but Krillin still held his own. Raditz totally dominated Piccolo and Goku but they got the better of him (with Gohan's help). Nappa was WAY stronger than Krillin but he damn near got his head cut off by Krillin's Kienzen. There was NO good reason why the Earth wasn't well and truly fucked when Vegeta turned into an ozaru, but Yajirobi turned out to be a wild card that changed everything. Now I'm not saying there aren't any good fights in the Cell and Buu Sagas, but all of my favorites are pre-Freeza, for the reasons outlined above.

Oh, and storywise, the Saiyan Saga is probably the most straightforward of all the DBZ sagas, The fight with Raditz lasts maybe two episodes. The fight with Nappa is five episodes, I think. And in each episode, something different happens to move the story along. Oh no, Yamcha died. Oh no, Chiaotzu done blown himself up. Oh no, Tenshinhan's down. Oh no, Goku still hasn't shown up. And so forth. The fight with Vegeta is another five episodes, I think. And same deal with each episode carrying the story along. Kaio-Ken x2 was ineffective, lets kick it up a notch. Oh fuck Vegeta's going to blow up the planet, Kamehameha!!!!! Holy shit, Vegeta's a giant ape and his power's increased ten-fold, guess I'll use the Genki-Dama. And so forth. In each episode, the situation changes. The whole Saiyan Saga wrapped up in less than a year of air time, even with anime filler episodes. April 1989 until March 1990. Freeza Saga? March 1990 until September 1991, and those last few months were purely the fight with Freeza. Seriously, why is it so goddamn long? Yeah I know Freeza's an epic bad guy who had been hyped for months but the whole thing could've wrapped up in maybe 10 episodes. Instead, Gohan, Vegeta, Krillin, and Piccolo fight Freeza for 10 episodes or so, then Goku shows up and fights Freeza for another 10 episodes, then transforms into a Super Saiyan, followed by almost 10 more episodes of "Yep, they're still going at it."

Same thing for the Cell and Buu Sagas. They're so meandering. Trunks killed Mecha-Freeza and King Cold in November 1991, and the Cell Games don't wrap up until July 1993. Why does it take so long? Does that much really happen?

None of this is to say that there's nothing good about post-Freeza DBZ. I enjoy the Cell and Buu Sagas well enough, but this thread is asking about why some people like the Saiyan Saga the most and I think those are the reasons. At least, they're MY reasons. The Saiyan Saga just has a tighter and more well-told story, better fights, and still retains the more endearing drawing style of mid-to-late Dragon Ball.

[Attitudefan]

*SNIP*.

Couldn't have said it better myself. I was planning on writing an essay about it but you summed up my opinions exactly. EXACTLY 100%.

[theoriginalbilis]

It's the arc that made me a DragonBall fan, so there's something good about it...

[Baggie_Saiyan]

I liked the Saga, I loved the Goku vs Vegeta fight, and we got to see the humans do some fighting lol All in All it's my 3rd favourite saga, behind Frieza and Buu. Oh and I prefer the Ocean dub version of this, no disrespect to Funi, but Ocean nailed it, sadly after their hiatus they weren't the same and Funimation became the definite dub

[Vijay]

Easily the most solid story Arc for me.

Plot itself felt fresh, introduction of various new characters, decent pacing (disastrous in anime though), Kaio-Sama's training regime, Piccolo & Gohan's bonding, DBZ just couldn't get any better!

Goku vs Nappa was the Dragonball's action landmark moment for me.

Goku vs Vegeta was epic beyond words, and Vegeta himself was fantastic as a villain.

While Raditz had his moments, Vegeta simply took Kaio-Ken X3 Head-on/Kamehameha/Spirit Bomb/Oozaru Gohan's rampage & STILL survived. Very few villains can claim surviving ALL that attacks.

[Kid Buu]

I liked it, the plot-twists of Goku and Piccolo being aliens was good. Also I enjoyed the Saiyans as villains

Every fight felt like it had a purpose. Raditz showed off glimpses of Piccolo fighting for the good side and Gohan's hidden powers. Nappa showed Piccolo's full transition to becoming a more compassionate human being. Vegeta battle showed off Gohan's character development of wanting to fight, before the Cell battle regressed that.

It's true that this is the arc where Yamcha, Tenshinan, & Chaotzu start to get sidelined. But I guess since Toriyama had phased out tournaments at this point, there wasn't really much for them to do.

[Kunzait_83]

Even though story-wise the Freeza arc is its direct sequel and you can easily make a case for the two being one uber-long mega arc, I always also liked looking at the Saiya-jin arc as a twisted companion piece to the 23rd Budokai stuff. Visually and stylistically they're direct extensions of one another and thus the flow between them is just about seamless in that regard. And moreover its a lot of fun to look at the original DB crew reach their utmost primes in the 23rd Budokai only to see that entire status quo get abruptly, completely, and violently torn right the hell down in the Saiya-jin arc. Either way you slice it, starting the series off at the Saiya-jin arc takes a lot of the punch and context away from both the arc itself and much of what immediately follows it.

[Kakarot88]

I love that Kuririn was an integral player in the final battle and that Yajirobi comes through too! In the end Goku and the Earth were saved BECAUSE of Earthlings which is just too cool, it kinda brings the whole Z era full circle by the end of the series. Vegeta versus Goku is WHY Majin Buu was able to be hatched and it was Earthling Genki that saved the day, back in the Saiyan arc Earthlings again saved the day...the best part is Kuririn is WILLING AND ABLE to get the job done and is stopped by Goku...ugh! WHAT a twist!

I love the training as well! This is the epitome of Z right here: training and gravity becoming a means to train, just incredible. I also love how we are introduced to the fact that there is a definitive after life!!