Why did the Westwood dub contain extra edits?

[90sDBZ]

This is something I've always wondered about this dub. It used Funi's already edited footage and cut it even further with time cuts and removal of violent scenes as well as reference to death. I've heard the theory that the cuts were made by Cartoon network UK but that can't be. Cartoon Network UK had already been airing the Funi inhouse episodes exactly as they aired in the US with no time cuts, no removal of violent scenes and all reference to death left intact. Furthermore all this was left intact in all subsequent re-runs over the years for the Funi episodes. Also CNX aired both the Funi and Westwood versions of the Fusion saga and while the Funi version remained as it was on US TV the Ocean version removed stuff like Super Buu getting shot and the scene were he jumps down the gunman's mouth as well as the fart joke with Gotenks in the bath tub. So that pretty much confirms that it wasn't Cartoon Network making the edits.

So this begs the question why did Ocean feel the need to cut the show further? It seemed that Cartoon Network/CNX/Toonami had no problem with the standard of editing that Funi's dub used so why was the Westwood dub cut further unnecessarily? Was it because it was intended to air in Canada too? Because I'm pretty sure Canada also received Funi's dub for part of the series too so I don't see why Ocean need to cut things any further. Did Ocean just want the show to be aimed more exclusively at kids?

[Blade]

The Westwood dub was created specifically for Canada, and therefore had to adhere to tighter Canadian broadcast standards.

At the time that Dragonball Z was airing there was a quota in place on Canadian networks which limited the quantity of foreign/imported material that a network could air. Funimation's dub was regarded as being an American product, and therefore the Westwood dub was commissioned to work around the quota, as the dub being produced in Canada meant that it was regarded as domestic programming.

As for why the UK received this particular dub there's two contrasting explanations. One is that in Europe the rights to Dragonball Z were held by AB Groupe, who were involved with the production of the Westwood dub. The other is that it was a cheaper option, and that Funimation and Cartoon Network in the UK had somewhat of a dispute over how much the latter should be paying for the license their product and the Westwood dub was a cheaper alternative.

[90sDBZ]

But was the Westwood dub really made for Canada? We got it here in the UK on the episode were Goku explains his escape from Namek while Canada didn't receive it until the Cell Games. Why would the Android saga and half of the Cell saga be UK exclusive if the dub was produced for Canada?

[Blade]

But was the Westwood dub really made for Canada? We got it here in the UK on the episode were Goku explains his escape from Namek while Canada didn't receive it until the Cell Games. Why would the Android saga and half of the Cell saga be UK exclusive if the dub was produced for Canada?

I don't think they were meant to be UK exclusive. It's possible that YTV in Canada had already paid for licenses from Funimation up until the Cell Games but their plan was to eventually switch to the Ocean Dub. I don't know if you recall, but the UK did switch back to Funimation briefly during Fusion Saga when CNX first launched. I think there was some flexibility between with the licensing in regard to both versions.

The Ocean Dub was created on a very, very limited time-frame (although it was less rushed in the Buu Saga and the end of Z). The time between the completion of production on a batch of episodes and their air date wasn't particularly long.

[90sDBZ]

So you're saying Canada were intended to switch at the Android saga too but YTV had already licenced the Funi dub for those eps so they went unused until they aired in the UK? That makes sense I guess. Yes I do remember the Funi Fusion saga airing on CNX. I was actually very disappointed when they switched back to Ocean although I agree it did seem less rushed closer to the end of Z. I think the thing with CNX was actually because of Ocean's dub being late so CNX had to temporarily licence the Funi dub for them eps but couldn't afford to licence it long-term. The way I remember it they managed to show the entire saga in Funi dub twice and were into the 3rd run before it went back to Ocean.

So if the extra edits were for Canadian TV standards then were the Funi dub episodes that aired in Canada also given extra cuts?

[TheBlackPaladin]

Another possibility is that, in addition to stricter broadcast standards, towards the end of the Westwood dub's run, they stopped using FUNimation's footage altogether and got footage from the AB Groupe...in other words, pre-edited footage from the French dub. It's possible that whoever was in charge of dubbing the Westwood dub eventually just became stuck with the edits that the AB Groupe had already made for the French broadcast.

This may not be the case, though, since--if I recall correctly--they didn't use the AB Groupe's footage until very, very, very, very late into DBZ.

The alternative English dub of "Dragon Ball" in Canada, though, that used the Blue Water cast, definitely got their footage from the French dub. Their opening for "Dragon Ball" is quite obviously a dub of the French opening for "Dragon Ball."

[DBGod]

Ok, Let me clear everything up.

Westwood dub is comprised of 2 studios. Ocean and Blue Water. Ocean is located in Vancouver, and Blue Water is located in Calgary. The dub was intended for the British colonies, which include Canada, UK, and the Netherlands.

It originally seemed that YTV planned on airing FUNimation episodes. They purchase FUNimation episodes 108-167. However, they were receiving Master Tapes late from FUNimation headquarters, and started to get pissed. YTV didnt like how they were being treated compared to the American Cartoon Network. So they said "fuck you" and prchased Westwood 168-276. YTV never licensed anything from FUNimation again until 2006. That explains why we are missing 108-167.

As for the French Footage, we received Westwood Blue Water dub of Dragonball and Dragonball GT. These both used the French footage. However in Dragonball Z, we received French footage of the last 5 or so episodes only.

-----------> Please note, CNX made the most edits to Westwood Dragonball Z out of all stations, they completely edited out all of the recaps and previews in every single episode. YTV actually made the least amount of edits.

[90sDBZ]

Ok, Let me clear everything up.

Westwood dub is comprised of 2 studios. Ocean and Blue Water. Ocean is located in Vancouver, and Blue Water is located in Calgary. The dub was intended for the British colonies, which include Canada, UK, and the Netherlands.

It originally seemed that YTV planned on airing FUNimation episodes. They purchase FUNimation episodes 108-167. However, they were receiving Master Tapes late from FUNimation headquarters, and started to get pissed. YTV didnt like how they were being treated compared to the American Cartoon Network. So they said "fuck you" and prchased Westwood 168-276. YTV never licensed anything from FUNimation again until 2006. That explains why we are missing 108-167.

As for the French Footage, we received Westwood Blue Water dub of Dragonball and Dragonball GT. These both used the French footage. However in Dragonball Z, we received French footage of the last 5 or so episodes only.

-----------> Please note, CNX made the most edits to Westwood Dragonball Z out of all stations, they completely edited out all of the recaps and previews in every single episode. YTV actually made the least amount of edits.

Actually CNX did keep in the recaps and previews. Definitely for some of the Kid Buu saga anyway. I know for a fact that the later re-runs on Toonami UK included them as I've got some episodes recorded. It's strange if they did cut them from the Ocean Fusion saga as they left them all intact in the Funi version. And yes you are correct about the French footage. I think the episode 'He's always late' was the first to use it as the title card for that one was different to all previous episodes. That would explain why the Blue Water dub kept in so much blood compared to the Ocean dub. It's pretty ironic how Funi were slow giving Canada the Funi eps when the UK actually got the Fusion saga on October 14th 2002 which was the exact same day the US Cartoon Network got it.

[SilverPlaqueVII]

Joining in the debate here...

About theme music, they could've kept the Rock the Dragon or any Hironobu Kageyama music since it is the staple of the anime series. Usually, the 183-291 Z used recycled music while DB-DBGT kept the old ones. Looks to me YTV played the opening and ending themes from Westwood as opposed to Rock the Dragon for 1-182 (1-167 edited) in Canada.

[DBGod]

Joining in the debate here...

About theme music, they could've kept the Rock the Dragon or any Hironobu Kageyama music since it is the staple of the anime series. Usually, the 183-291 Z used recycled music while DB-DBGT kept the old ones. Looks to me YTV played the opening and ending themes from Westwood as opposed to Rock the Dragon for 1-182 (1-167 edited) in Canada.

Blue Water DB and GT used original Japanese Music, as well as original terms. That is one main reason why I love those dubs.

Ocean DBZ used a mix of Mega Man and Monster Rancher, as well as a few of their own created tunes. The intro and outro was Westwood created, so us Canadians as well as the other countries did not get "Rock the Dragon." Any episode that was Ocean, aired the Ocean intro/outro. If the episodes airing was FUNi dubbed, it would have their Rock the Dragon intro/outr.

[Blade]

-----------> Please note, CNX made the most edits to Westwood Dragonball Z out of all stations, they completely edited out all of the recaps and previews in every single episode. YTV actually made the least amount of edits.

I don't think CNX actually made any significant censorship edits to the content in Z, most of that was done by Ocean Studios instead - the most notorious is that any direct allusion to death was removed from the dialogue up until towards the very end of the run. Words like 'kill' and 'dead' were almost always replaced with softer words. As for the episode recaps and previews, what you're saying simply isn't true. I've got the majority of the material on VHS recordings, and everything from the World Tournament Saga to the end of Z digitised.

[kei17]

Speaking of the recaps, they have some scenes that were edited out in the actual episodes. The same thing happened in Kai as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-11S0Hlss4

[Blade]

Speaking of the recaps, they have some scenes that were edited out in the actual episodes. The same thing happened in Kai as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-11S0Hlss4

Yes! That's something that always made me chuckle. I think it just goes to show both how rushed the production was and also how pointless some of the original censorship was - given that the broadcaster (in this case the UK Toonami) clearly had no problem with transmitting the content!

[90sDBZ]

Joining in the debate here...

About theme music, they could've kept the Rock the Dragon or any Hironobu Kageyama music since it is the staple of the anime series. Usually, the 183-291 Z used recycled music while DB-DBGT kept the old ones. Looks to me YTV played the opening and ending themes from Westwood as opposed to Rock the Dragon for 1-182 (1-167 edited) in Canada.

Blue Water DB and GT used original Japanese Music, as well as original terms. That is one main reason why I love those dubs.

Ocean DBZ used a mix of Mega Man and Monster Rancher, as well as a few of their own created tunes. The intro and outro was Westwood created, so us Canadians as well as the other countries did not get "Rock the Dragon." Any episode that was Ocean, aired the Ocean intro/outro. If the episodes airing was FUNi dubbed, it would have their Rock the Dragon intro/outr.

In the UK we actually did get Rock the Dragon for the Saban dub all the time until the Westwood dub began to air later on. Then we got the Westwood intro for the Saban eps most of the time although they would occasionally still play Rock the Dragon for them eps. Also the Garlic Jr and Trunks sagas always had Faulconer's intro when they aired in the UK. And when the Fusion saga aired in Funi dub they mostly used the Westwood intro but occasionally used Faulconer's Buu saga intro. The recycled music was probably the biggest issue I had with the Westwood dub. The Shuki Levy score for the Saban dub was sooooooo much better as was the Faulconer score. Although I wasn't really fond of Blue Water GT I did enjoy their DB dub. Also Blue Water DB had 2 intros. 1 for Canada and 1 for the UK although Toonami UK would sometimes show both.

[DBGod]

-----------> Please note, CNX made the most edits to Westwood Dragonball Z out of all stations, they completely edited out all of the recaps and previews in every single episode. YTV actually made the least amount of edits.

I don't think CNX actually made any significant censorship edits to the content in Z, most of that was done by Ocean Studios instead - the most notorious is that any direct allusion to death was removed from the dialogue up until towards the very end of the run. Words like 'kill' and 'dead' were almost always replaced with softer words. As for the episode recaps and previews, what you're saying simply isn't true. I've got the majority of the material on VHS recordings, and everything from the World Tournament Saga to the end of Z digitised.

If you could upload a video of a recap or preview on youtube, I would love to see that for my self.

Joining in the debate here...

About theme music, they could've kept the Rock the Dragon or any Hironobu Kageyama music since it is the staple of the anime series. Usually, the 183-291 Z used recycled music while DB-DBGT kept the old ones. Looks to me YTV played the opening and ending themes from Westwood as opposed to Rock the Dragon for 1-182 (1-167 edited) in Canada.

Blue Water DB and GT used original Japanese Music, as well as original terms. That is one main reason why I love those dubs.

Ocean DBZ used a mix of Mega Man and Monster Rancher, as well as a few of their own created tunes. The intro and outro was Westwood created, so us Canadians as well as the other countries did not get "Rock the Dragon." Any episode that was Ocean, aired the Ocean intro/outro. If the episodes airing was FUNi dubbed, it would have their Rock the Dragon intro/outr.

In the UK we actually did get Rock the Dragon for the Saban dub all the time until the Westwood dub began to air later on. Then we got the Westwood intro for the Saban eps most of the time although they would occasionally still play Rock the Dragon for them eps. Also the Garlic Jr and Trunks sagas always had Faulconer's intro when they aired in the UK. And when the Fusion saga aired in Funi dub they mostly used the Westwood intro but occasionally used Faulconer's Buu saga intro. The recycled music was probably the biggest issue I had with the Westwood dub. The Shuki Levy score for the Saban dub was sooooooo much better as was the Faulconer score. Although I wasn't really fond of Blue Water GT I did enjoy their DB dub. Also Blue Water DB had 2 intros. 1 for Canada and 1 for the UK although Toonami UK would sometimes show both.

Yes, you are correct, though I dont understand why the UK had such inconsistent runs.

[Super Sayian Prime]

Canadian broadcast standards are more lax than US ones, and I feel like people are really over emphasizing the Cancon quota. YTV aired complete US, British, and even the odd Australian production when Dragon Ball Z was airing.

[andrewtuell1991]

I've noticed that in addition to extra footage there were script edits as well. Such as still dancing around death until the midway the Boo arc and other minor little things like in the "Evil Kid Buu!" episode during Kaioshin's flashback where Buu nearly kills Bibidi, in the FUNimation dub, Bibidi says "I'm the one who created you, you stupid idiot!" But in the Westwood dub, he says "I'm the one who created you, you ungrateful fool!"

There's also the little changes in pronunciation and terminology such as Instant Translocation, Bee-del (Videl), and Pea-con (Paikuhan). Anyone know the story behind those?

[TheBlackPaladin]

I've noticed that in addition to extra footage there were script edits as well. Such as still dancing around death until the midway the Boo arc and other minor little things like in the "Evil Kid Buu!" episode during Kaioshin's flashback where Buu nearly kills Bibidi, in the FUNimation dub, Bibidi says "I'm the one who created you, you stupid idiot!" But in the Westwood dub, he says "I'm the one who created you, you ungrateful fool!"

There's also the little changes in pronunciation and terminology such as Instant Translocation, Bee-del (Videl), and Pea-con (Paikuhan). Anyone know the story behind those?

Sean Schemmel once said on his Facebook that he believes that dub got their script by essentially having someone watch the FUNimation episodes, transcribe the script, and then send it to whichever Canadian dubbing studio was being used for the dubbing. He says he believes this because there were multiple instances where, when dubbing the show, he and Chris Sabat wouldn't be completely satisfied with a line and modify it a bit in the booth. No official records were kept of these changes, they were just decisions made by the actor and director dubbing at the time.

Kyle Hebert seems to know this too, as he said in an interview that there were a number of lines that they had to change during dubbing because the provided scripts were "just way too corny." How corny? Well, only the actors know for sure, but Sean said that he was once given a line where, as Goku, he referred to himself as a "Super duper Saiyan," but he flat-out refused to say that out loud.

Anyway. Sean said in the initial Facebook post I was referring to that he and Chris changed a number of lines if they felt they weren't working, and no official record of these changes were made. They were changed on the fly, and rather informally. In spite of the fact that there were no official record of these changes, these changes still appeared in the Westwood dub.

As for the different pronunciations...quite frankly, I suspect they were pronounced differently for the same reason that the dub scripts for the FUNimation dub were changed on-the-fly: because somebody in the booth though they'd sound better another way.

[NitroEX]

They did use "instant transmission" for a little while but quickly switched to "instant translocation". I always liked the sound of the latter, shame it never caught on.

[Attitudefan]

They did use "instant transmission" for a little while but quickly switched to "instant translocation". I always liked the sound of the latter, shame it never caught on.

Instant translocation makes so much more sense though and I'm sure whoever writing for Westwood, or one of the actors at Ocean, realized that.