How strong were the Cell Juniors?

[TheGmGoken]

This been bugging me lately for some reason(Especially when I think about posting a Cell Jr battle in the Vs Thread). I know..well hope that they're not just as strong as Cell. Though I remember someone saying they were but just less durable. I did not believe it so here I am. I could easily disprove that and it's not that hard to label them. As they most likely stronger than everyone but SSJ Goku, Gohan, and Cell. So using the Toriyama Power Level system.

SS2 Gohan: 20
Perfect Cell 100%: 15
Goku: 10
Cell Suppressed: 7 - 13(Depending on the person)
Vegeta(FPSSJ post ROSAT 2nd): 7
Trunks(FPSSJ ROSAT 2nd): 6.5
Piccolo(ROSAT) 5 - 6.
Cell Jrs: 8 - 10?

What we know:
Vegeta and Trunks(Maybe Piccolo due to the manga cover showing Piccolo standing) could hold their own
Cell Jr according to Cell could have beaten Vegeta and Trunks had Gohan not turned SSj2
Cell(I think this might have been Anime only) said "They might be small but they're still my spawn"
They're stronger than Cyborgs and ASSJ Vegeta and Trunks

What we don't know:
How strong ASSJ Vegeta would have been post ROSAT for the 2nd time(Since he was in FPSSJ)
How do Cell Jr compare to SSJ Goku. We know Goku might have won due to Cell's statement about how Goku is to hurt to fight. But would he share the same fate as Vegeta and Trunks?

[Pantalones]

I always figured they were somewhere around the level of strength Cell was showing off during his fight against Goku. Too much for anyone (short of Gohan or maybe a non-tired Goku) to actually pull off a win against, but not so strong that they're completely overwhelming for guys like Vegeta/Trunks/Piccolo, at least when they're playing around like they probably were.

That also fits with them supposedly being "just as strong as Cell." They were about as strong as he was... at the time he popped them out, when he wasn't even using his full power. He would've jumped way ahead of them when he went to 100%.

They could possibly be somewhat weaker than that, but they do still have to be stronger than the suppressed power Cell showed off at first (right after first reaching perfect form, when he got damaged by Vegeta's Final Flash but was able to make everything else Vegeta did look pretty wimpy.) Otherwise Vegeta, Trunks, and probably Piccolo would be beating them easily rather than barely standing up to them.

I also don't think their regeneration is up to par with Perfect Cell's. It's probably more like Piccolo's regeneration or what we see of Imperfect Cell's regeneration, being able to regenerate damaged limbs and such but not completely reform half (or all) of their entire body like Cell himself can.

[Cursed Lemon]

Well, they are stronger than FPSSJ Goku and both Grade forms of Vegeta and Trunks, but ultimately we never know just how MUCH stronger Cell is than the rest of the heroes, so they could wildly varying strengths.

[Kamiccolo9]

Well, they are stronger than FPSSJ Goku and both Grade forms of Vegeta and Trunks, but ultimately we never know just how MUCH stronger Cell is than the rest of the heroes, so they could wildly varying strengths.

They were stronger than a beaten up Goku. If Vegeta and Trunks could fight relatively even with them, then Goku could probably beat one.

[dbzfan7]

I think the Daizenshuu says they were equal to Vegeta and Trunks, but I like to think they were significantly stronger than them.

[TheGmGoken]

Well, they are stronger than FPSSJ Goku and both Grade forms of Vegeta and Trunks, but ultimately we never know just how MUCH stronger Cell is than the rest of the heroes, so they could wildly varying strengths.

FPSSJ Goku would kick a Cell Jr ass IMO. Goku was tired from an epic fight with Cell. As stated above. If Trunks and Vegeta could hold their own then Goku should beat them.

[hleV]

Maybe as strong as suppressed Cell? I believe some guidebook states that they're as strong as Cell.

[Cursed Lemon]

My bad, I thought Goku ate a senzu bean after his fight.

[Super Vegetto]

This been bugging me lately for some reason(Especially when I think about posting a Cell Jr battle in the Vs Thread). I know..well hope that they're not just as strong as Cell. Though I remember someone saying they were but just less durable. I did not believe it so here I am. I could easily disprove that and it's not that hard to label them. As they most likely stronger than everyone but SSJ Goku, Gohan, and Cell. So using the Toriyama Power Level system.

SS2 Gohan: 20
Perfect Cell 100%: 15
Goku: 10
Cell Suppressed: 7 - 13(Depending on the person)
Vegeta(FPSSJ post ROSAT 2nd): 7
Trunks(FPSSJ ROSAT 2nd): 6.5
Piccolo(ROSAT) 5 - 6.
Cell Jrs: 8 - 10?

What we know:
Vegeta and Trunks(Maybe Piccolo due to the manga cover showing Piccolo standing) could hold their own
Cell Jr according to Cell could have beaten Vegeta and Trunks had Gohan not turned SSj2
Cell(I think this might have been Anime only) said "They might be small but they're still my spawn"
They're stronger than Cyborgs and ASSJ Vegeta and Trunks

What we don't know:
How strong ASSJ Vegeta would have been post ROSAT for the 2nd time(Since he was in FPSSJ)
How do Cell Jr compare to SSJ Goku. We know Goku might have won due to Cell's statement about how Goku is to hurt to fight. But would he share the same fate as Vegeta and Trunks?

From Daiz 7 special attack and bio:

Each of the children has roughly the same amount of power and speed as Cell, however their power was equal to Vegeta and Trunks at the time, and their personalities were cruelty itself.

So Cell Juniors are holding back power and toying with stronger Z fighters because they are strong as Cell (when he created them).

[dbzfan7]

Here's a link to their bio

http://web.archive.org/web/201110211707 ... ll_juniors

http://web.archive.org/web/201111031808 ... h_cell_jrs

These kinda contradict each other.

[Super Vegetto]

Here's a link to their bio

http://web.archive.org/web/201110211707 ... ll_juniors

http://web.archive.org/web/201111031808 ... h_cell_jrs

These kinda contradict each other.

It says that their power was equal to Vegeta and Trunks at the time, and not "their power is equal to Vegeta and Trunks"...

[dbzfan7]

Here's a link to their bio

http://web.archive.org/web/201110211707 ... ll_juniors

http://web.archive.org/web/201111031808 ... h_cell_jrs

These kinda contradict each other.

It says that their power was equal to Vegeta and Trunks at the time, and not "their power is equal to Vegeta and Trunks"...

At what time? They don't show any increases power ups at any point. Also being equal to Cell makes no sense either as it doesn't specify that it's not Full Power Cell even though it clearly isn't.

[ZombieVito]

Wow... The Daiz said that? My opinion on it keeps getting lower and lower.

They are stated to be playing around with even Vegeta and Trunks.

Goku: 360
Juniors: 300
Vegeta: 260
Trunks: 250
Piccolo: 170 (Might bump him to 200)
Goku (tired): 120

[Super Vegetto]

Here's a link to their bio

http://web.archive.org/web/201110211707 ... ll_juniors

http://web.archive.org/web/201111031808 ... h_cell_jrs

These kinda contradict each other.

It says that their power was equal to Vegeta and Trunks at the time, and not "their power is equal to Vegeta and Trunks"...

At what time? They don't show any increases power ups at any point. Also being equal to Cell makes no sense either as it doesn't specify that it's not Full Power Cell even though it clearly isn't.

They don't nead to power up because they are created at full power. Only option that stays is that they were holding back while fighthing.

Well think what you whant, but it only makes sense that they have equal power to Cell (when he created them)...

[dbzfan7]

They don't nead to power up because they are created at full power. Only option that stays is that they were holding back while fighthing.

Well think what you whant, but it only makes sense that they have equal power to Cell (when he created them)...

I'm just saying the wording is contradicting as why would they not just say in both descriptions that they were roughly suppressed cell level

[Tyro]

Here's my logic and how I go about figuring out a rough estimate.

Judging by Vegeta's actions and comments, I think it's likely that he surpassed 50% SSFP Goku by the start of the Cell Games.

Chapter: 394 (DBZ 200), P10.2-4
Context: on the day of the Cell Games.
Goku: “It’s finally time. Huh? Where’s Vegeta?”
Piccolo: “He went on ahead…”
Goku: “Oh-ho. Rarin’ to go, huh? He must’ve gotten a lot better.”

Chapter: 395 (DBZ 201), P13.5
Context: after Goku says he’ll fight first Cell first
Vegeta: “Do what you want. Either way, I’ll be the one to finish this…”

The Cell Juniors were implied to be slightly stronger than Vegeta.

Chapter: 407 (DBZ 213), P5.3
Context: as the Cell Juniors beat everyone up
Cell (to Gohan): “If you don’t show your true worth soon, things will go past the point of no return. Look closely. Vegeta or Trunks are barely fighting evenly…Even Son Goku is in trouble, having lost his stamina…”

And we know that Vegeta did not surpass 100% SSFP Goku by several statements.

Chapter: 402 (DBZ 208), P13.5
Context: after Goku says there’s other people to fight Cell besides him
Cell: “It’s the same thing. Vegeta and Trunks may have raised their power, but they should still be inferior to you…”

Chapter: 402 (DBZ 208), P14.8
Context: after Goku wants to pick the person to fight Cell next
Vegeta: “Wh-what’s he planning…?! Th-there’s nobody who can win…!”

So I think this makes a good case for the Cell Juniors being between 100% SSFP Goku and 50% SSFP Goku.

[TheGmGoken]

Children which perfect-form Cell births through his tail. In the story, he gives birth to seven. Their appearance is like perfect-form Cell, only small and cute. However, their power was equal to Vegeta and Trunks at the time, and their personalities were cruelty itself.

This is a technique where perfect-form Cell uses his own abilities to create children from out of the tail which he had earlier used to absorb life-energy life. Cell can freely control the number of children created. Each of the children then has roughly the same amount of power and speed as Cell. This special ability could be called a more developed version of the Namekian Piccolo's ability to create offspring.

How do they go from equal to supressed Cell to equal to Vegeta and Trunks? Choose one power and stick with it. Seriously do the Daizenshuu crew even read what they wrote in the past? Or at least proof read their work? Also what do they mean "At the time"? Was the Juniors suppose to get older and stronger or they changed their power levels? I never seen them power up at all.

[RandomGuy96]

They're not as strong as Goku, that's for sure. Cell said that "even Goku" was losing because he was tired, obviously implying he'd win if he wasn't. So it would seem that the entry that said they were equal to Vegeta and Trunks was the correct one.

[Super Vegetto]

They're not as strong as Goku, that's for sure. Cell said that "even Goku" was losing because he was tired, obviously implying he'd win if he wasn't. So it would seem that the entry that said they were equal to Vegeta and Trunks was the correct one.

Chapter: 407 (DBZ 213), P5.3
Context: as the Cell Juniors beat everyone up
Cell (to Gohan): “If you don’t show your true worth soon, things will go past the point of no return. Look closely. Vegeta or Trunks are barely fighting evenly…Even Son Goku is in trouble, having lost his stamina…”

Goku is in trouble like the rest of them (expet Vegeta and Trunks). It doesn't say that Goku would beat them if he had his stamina restored.

Btw i don't think that he would create them on level they can be defeated by any Z fighter (expet Gohan).

Also this:
Chapter: 406 (DBZ 212), P14.2-5
Goku: “Watch out! These guys are ferociously strong!”
Cell: “It’s no use, you absolutely cannot win. They may be small, but they’re my children.”

[TheGmGoken]

Um RandomGuy did not say Cell directly said Goku(FP) > Cell Jrs. In fact what he said and what you said was similar.

Cell (to Gohan): “If you don’t show your true worth soon, things will go past the point of no return. Look closely. Vegeta or Trunks are barely fighting evenly…Even Son Goku is in trouble, having lost his stamina…”

Goku is in trouble like the rest of them (expet Vegeta and Trunks). It doesn't say that Goku would beat them if he had his stamina restored.

He even said that "even Goku" was losing because he was tired,

It was implied that Goku(FP) > Cell Jr. "Goku is in trouble...having lost his stamina". That if anything implied that Goku was in trouble ONLY BECAUSE he lost his stamina