Reconciling Blu-ray and Yamamoto audio tracks

[supersaiyan3]

It's really tough to add the Yamamoto score back to Season 3 & 4

I thought it would be simple like adding the American score to the Dragon Boxes was, but it's not like that at all. Since I'm dealing with the Nicktoons rip from my DVR, nearly ever scene is edited in some way. Shots are shortened, and some are removed altogether. So what I did was re-create all the video edits that were present in the broadcast version (frame by frame), using my blu-ray encode, and then added the Yamamoto score back to it.

It took forever!! I've only done episode 53 so far, and that took about 3 hours. I did take the time the re-create the prologue, opening, credits, and previews, so it wouldn't take that long if I left those out. The final product is amazing though. Even though it's not "uncut" and is missing some shots, it makes it feel like there's more action. Even the shortened prologue, opening, etc. make the show feel more streamlined (like Kai was meant to be.) Not to mention I can finally enjoy the Yamamoto score without having to see the Nicktoons logo on the screen.

But still, there has to be an easier way? Surely some of you have tried to re-add the score back to the blu-rays before, so I'm just wondering how you guys did it

[Ajay]

I'm assuming you're adding Yamamoto to the English dub? That sounds like one hell of a task.

At least when I went and added Yamamoto back into Kai, I was going Japanese only so I could just take the Japanese TV audio and mux in into my Blu-Ray rips.

How exactly are you doing it? Taking the center channel of the English 5.1 mix and throwing it over the top of everything else?

[supersaiyan3]

Yup, just the English dub. Sorry I forgot to mention that.

At first I was trying to mux the Nicktoons audio into my blu-ray rip. It keeps going out-of-sync though, so I tried editing the Nicktoons audio to make it fit the blu-ray, but that left silent gaps when a shot was shortened for the TV broadcast. I even thought of adding the Kikuchi score into those missing parts, but that just sounded jarring.

So eventually I decided to just have the two video streams on top of each other, so I could just edit the blu-ray video so it matched the Nicktoons rip. Once each frame matched up, I dumped the Nicktoons video but kept the audio. And even though the audio was stereo and from an analog PVR passthrough box, it still sounded perfect

I think it might be a little easier to sum up what I did with a picture:

Spoiler:

So I guess I technically didn't replace the audio tracks... I replaced the video. And that's why it took forever and I need an easier way to do this lol

[Ajay]

Exactly how far does the Nicktoons' broadcast go with Yamamoto?

[El Diabeetus]

Exactly how far does the Nicktoons' broadcast go with Yamamoto?

I think up to 63.

[qjz123]

It's really tough to add the Yamamoto score back to Season 3 & 4

I thought it would be simple like adding the American score to the Dragon Boxes was, but it's not like that at all. Since I'm dealing with the Nicktoons rip from my DVR, nearly ever scene is edited in some way. Shots are shortened, and some are removed altogether. So what I did was re-create all the video edits that were present in the broadcast version (frame by frame), using my blu-ray encode, and then added the Yamamoto score back to it.

It took forever!! I've only done episode 53 so far, and that took about 3 hours. I did take the time the re-create the prologue, opening, credits, and previews, so it wouldn't take that long if I left those out. The final product is amazing though. Even though it's not "uncut" and is missing some shots, it makes it feel like there's more action. Even the shortened prologue, opening, etc. make the show feel more streamlined (like Kai was meant to be.) Not to mention I can finally enjoy the Yamamoto score without having to see the Nicktoons logo on the screen.

But still, there has to be an easier way? Surely some of you have tried to re-add the score back to the blu-rays before, so I'm just wondering how you guys did it

That sounds like a lot of work. From what I've seen from other people attempting to add Yamamoto music back to the english dub of kai such as this group http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... =6&t=18094. They're muting every channel in the 5.1 english track except for the center channel then they're going in and adding the music manually using the Japanese broadcast of kai as a reference point.

[Tanooki Kuribo]

Exactly how far does the Nicktoons' broadcast go with Yamamoto?

I think up to 63.

It was episode 64 actually. I remember noting this change when I did the edits guide (at the bottom)...

http://dbzkedits.3gkai.com/?p=632

[supersaiyan3]

That sounds like a lot of work. From what I've seen from other people attempting to add Yamamoto music back to the english dub of kai such as this group http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... =6&t=18094. They're muting every channel in the 5.1 english track except for the center channel then they're going in and adding the music manually using the Japanese broadcast of kai as a reference point.

Thanks for the link! It looks like there are still valid links in there to download the tracks he already mixed. This is way better and it's going to save me so much time.

I'm also pretty excited to watch it with the Faulconer mix haha

[kei17]

For your information, some of the Yamamoto score episodes in the Android arc on Nicktoons lack the two particular tracks: A New Foe Rears His Head and The Ebb And The Flow. Toei first acknowledged that these tracks were rip-offs and once tried to solve the problem by replacing only them. As a result, the said pieces got replaced on episodes 59, 60, 61, and 63. They never aired these episodes with the original music placement though it was still the Yamamoto score. However, Nicktoons accidentally streamed these episodes with the original music placement on their website. That is to say, you can't obtain the truly original Yamamoto score version by using the audio from TV airings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbQNqH5Qxcc

Also, they later retrospectively removed the two tracks from episodes 55 to 58 for reruns, too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HP3OY3M1Uo

[linkdude20002001]

Kei, do you know if there are any songs used in episodes 53 through 64 that are unreleased? Because if there aren't any, it seems easy enough (albeit time consuming) to use the audio from the Nicktoons.com streamings, and, where scenes were shorted, extend music using the CDs.

It would be great to restore the episodes to how they were meant to be seen. I would love to do this as I have the CDs, and the streamed episodes (somewhere... I hope I still have them!), and the BDs (not that I know how to rip them...). Maybe it's a job I best leave for someone else, but either way, I want to know that it's not an impossible goal.

Another question I have is about the audio track on the BDs: Is the 5.1 track something like what's on the Orange Bricks, where we are given the ability to isolate the voices and sound effects from the music?

[Daisetsu]

Kei, do you know if there are any songs used in episodes 53 through 64 that are unreleased? Because if there aren't any, it seems easy enough (albeit time consuming) to use the audio from the Nicktoons.com streamings, and, where scenes were shorted, extend music using the CDs.

I'm not Kei, but this should help you. Anything in red is unreleased.

Another question I have is about the audio track on the BDs: Is the 5.1 track something like what's on the Orange Bricks, where we are given the ability to isolate the voices and sound effects from the music?

I believe the center channel contains sound effects and voices while the rest of the channels contain the music, some sound effects, and voice effects (such as echos).

[linkdude20002001]

Thank you! Somehow I forgot Kenisu did Kai too. :p

So we'd only have to worry about:
Destiny (Version 3?)
Creature Of Marvel (Bottom Layer)
Ominous Silence ~Bukimi na Shizukesa~ (Sans Harmonica)

Doesn't sound impossible at least!

[IAmTheMilkMan]

I did this kind of thing a while back to the entirety of Kai, Part Five. I never used Nicktoons, though. I wanted to do it the proper way, using the 5.1 English tracks and keeping them 5.1 even after replacing the score. That involved not only replacing the score, but making sure the sound effects were still there along with the echo whenever it was needed. I used the original Japanese Kai as a reference for score placement. Boy, was it ever a pain in the arse to do. Not something I'm looking forward to doing again, if I ever do. After all was said and done, it was nice to be able to watch the English dub with the Yamamoto score, but I'm not entirely sure all of the effort was worth it. Nowadays, I just suck it up and watch the Kikuchi score from part Six onward.

[linkdude20002001]

Sounds tough. I'm curious as to how you went about that, though. What did you have to do exactly, and what were the challenges you faced? I imagine the most difficult task dealing with the sound effects.

[saiyanprimalforce]

Oh, someone actually remembered my project? Neat! (Props to you, qjz123)

I couldn't help but comment after seeing this thread (no real exciting dragonball news to bother keeping up with Kazenshuu much). I haven't updated the project, nor worked on it since September in a serious fashion, but the rest of Yamamoto and Kikuchi Part 8(plus adjusted volume Part 5) is coming down the pipeline in a couple months or so. Currently, I'm working through the first revision of my novel--so I guess you could say I have a knack for long-term projects(and don't get me started on the prospect of doing Kikuchi 1-52 and Boo mixes, as well as Boo Faulconer--if I can convince myself it's possible to do well and worth the effort).

But, in regards to the process--yes, it is very time-consuming, and requres a lot of elbow grease and barring down in the trenches(to do well, anyways), but it's also very rewarding. For me, being able to vicariously tell Z's story through proper music placement is more than enough satisfaction to spend the batch of lonely man hours required at whittling away at the different scores. And Dragonball is absolutely one of my favorite stories ever, so it's never been too hard a sell to put in the effort, espesically with how shit the replacement score is compared to the awesome English dub.

So, anyways, as mentioned above, I rip the 5.1 tracks off the blu ray's and then seperate them. The main track used is the center channel, which is the main voice and sound effect track with no music--but it misses a majority of the echo/reverb effects . . . certainly not a huge deal. For Parts 5 and 6, I incorporated the silent parts of the 5.1 track into my silent mix of the episode, but it's impossible to retain the echo/reverb effects in the music parts of the 5.1 tracks--other than manually adding those things in yourself, and that's one thing I've not really yet figured how to solve properly, to be honest. I plan on doing the same for Parts 7 and 8 as well--but just decided to save that work until I've actually polished off all the scores to episodes themselves first.

So, in short, for those interested in Yamamoto--it'll get done here soon. Just gotta be patient, hehe.

PS: Certainly seems like there's not exactly a rush since it seems we won't be getting the first Boo Kai release until possibly the fall anyway--espesically if Kai might be airing back on Fuji TV again.

[TheAldella]

PS: Certainly seems like there's not exactly a rush since it seems we won't be getting the first Boo Kai release until possibly the fall anyway--espesically if Kai might be airing back on Fuji TV again.

It does sadden me slightly that you won't be doing all of Buu Kai with Faulconer. That was the saga that he really stepped up his game in, I feel. xP

[sangofe]

Yup, just the English dub. Sorry I forgot to mention that.

At first I was trying to mux the Nicktoons audio into my blu-ray rip. It keeps going out-of-sync though, so I tried editing the Nicktoons audio to make it fit the blu-ray, but that left silent gaps when a shot was shortened for the TV broadcast. I even thought of adding the Kikuchi score into those missing parts, but that just sounded jarring.

So eventually I decided to just have the two video streams on top of each other, so I could just edit the blu-ray video so it matched the Nicktoons rip. Once each frame matched up, I dumped the Nicktoons video but kept the audio. And even though the audio was stereo and from an analog PVR passthrough box, it still sounded perfect

I think it might be a little easier to sum up what I did with a picture:

Spoiler:

So I guess I technically didn't replace the audio tracks... I replaced the video. And that's why it took forever and I need an easier way to do this lol

I wish you'd done the japanese version.

[saiyanprimalforce]

PS: Certainly seems like there's not exactly a rush since it seems we won't be getting the first Boo Kai release until possibly the fall anyway--espesically if Kai might be airing back on Fuji TV again.

It does sadden me slightly that you won't be doing all of Buu Kai with Faulconer. That was the saga that he really stepped up his game in, I feel. xP

I'm slowly starting to walk that back . . . just depends on if I can build a solid enough "standard" library of Faulconer pieces to go along with the Boo specifc to do a good job, and provide of bit of consistency in my Faulconer score from 53-98. So, I guess we'll see how experimenting with the first set turns out, heh.

[TheAldella]

PS: Certainly seems like there's not exactly a rush since it seems we won't be getting the first Boo Kai release until possibly the fall anyway--espesically if Kai might be airing back on Fuji TV again.

It does sadden me slightly that you won't be doing all of Buu Kai with Faulconer. That was the saga that he really stepped up his game in, I feel. xP

I'm slowly starting to walk that back . . . just depends on if I can build a solid enough "standard" library of Faulconer pieces to go along with the Boo specifc to do a good job, and provide of bit of consistency in my Faulconer score from 53-98. So, I guess we'll see how experimenting with the first set turns out, heh.

Okay, that's awesome.

[IAmTheMilkMan]

Sounds tough. I'm curious as to how you went about that, though. What did you have to do exactly, and what were the challenges you faced? I imagine the most difficult task dealing with the sound effects.

I actually made it more difficult for myself than it really needed to be, I think, by editing on a disc-by-disc basis as opposed to a per-episode basis. I was dealing with the Part Five DVDs, and I wanted my final products to be 1:1 copies of the original DVDs, only with Yamamoto music instead of Kikuchi. So instead of editing one episode, I edited an entire disc at once, meaning that I had to deal with a 2+ hour file which really bogged down my computer and made the program I was using almost impossibly slow. Lesson learned.

But that wasn't the only reason it was grueling. I had to drop each piece of music into the proper spot and then volume adjust, which was surprisingly painful to do because it's not a matter of simply adjusting the volume of the entire music piece at once, it's a matter of adjusting certain parts of the music piece to be quieter or louder than others (usually due to dialog being present). I became very familiar with the envelope tool.

Of course, there was also the matter of losing a lot of the ambient sfx and all of the echo/reverb dialog effects whenever I ripped out the Kikuchi track, so I also had to go about recreating those. Replacing the regular fx was usually a matter of simple copy and paste, but it was rather tedious. Recreating the echo/reverb effects was even more so, as I had to take the affected dialog into another program with a functioning reverb effect, apply it, export it, and then drop it back into the 5.1 project.

There was also the matter of piecing the original DVD back together once all was said and done. Not a big deal, but replacing the music in the menus was no picnic.

Overall, it seemed like a relatively simple thing to do that ended up taking hours upon hours of my time. And nothing about it was fun to do, outside of watching the finished product. Anyway, I wouldn't recommend it.