Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
As we all know at the end of Dragonball GT Goku seems to have not aged (grown old), even after 100 years...Where as PAN had became a old women
The rumor at that time was that goku was immortal as he's a part of the eternal dragon, BUT when you think about it , it looks like goku was at a correct age
We know that guardians are mortals. Being a guardians doesn't grant you immortality [OLD KAI , KAMI and other guardians].
Goku was 53 something when he was transformed into a 10 year old. which would make him physically 110 years old(in actuality 163 years old at) the end of GT.
now since saiyans can live longer than humans and Roshi as a human was well over 340 years old. roshi. its possible that every saiyan can live longer than that age.
The only problem still unanswered is about the rate of ageing pan looks like a old bat while goku looks like 30 or 40. My theory is that goku is a pure saiyan hence doesn't age like her. Pan is half human so he would probably age like a human ...just like roshi .
A lot of people interpret GT's ending as Goku having died since his dōgi is left behind despite him wearing it as he flies off on the Shen Long's back. That, couple with Vegeta's 'cherish that' line would imply he knows Goku's fate too.
If this is true then Goku's aging is largely irrelevant. He's dead, he wouldn't age!
Nope, Goku isn't immortal, he is dead according to Masako Nozawa.
Masako Nozawa (DBGT: Perfect Files Vol. #2) wrote:The scene where, after Goku finishes fighting, he rides on Shenlong, and says, “Shenlong’s back sure is warm…”. That’s because riding on Shenlong means that Goku’s going to leave this world, and go to the world of the gods…. I was glad that they didn’t write it plainly that he died, though…. I feel that Goku probably went to Shenlong’s place, and is training again.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
If he was dead then where is his halo? I believe Goku absorb the Dragon Balls so that he can help purify them and it could take a century for them to restore back normal.
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Nope, Goku isn't immortal, he is dead according to Masako Nozawa.
Masako Nozawa (DBGT: Perfect Files Vol. #2) wrote:The scene where, after Goku finishes fighting, he rides on Shenlong, and says, “Shenlong’s back sure is warm…”. That’s because riding on Shenlong means that Goku’s going to leave this world, and go to the world of the gods…. I was glad that they didn’t write it plainly that he died, though…. I feel that Goku probably went to Shenlong’s place, and is training again.
Well, maybe that means that he died but is not explicit at all and because of that, we do not really know for sure (that was the intention). We also have to note that Dragon Balls are fused with Goku now and maybe after that, he gain eternal life. Kakarotto goes to the World of the Gods being dead? I don't think so. Besides, Goku has no halo ( please don't come with things like GT logic or something like that ).
MDSTSSJ wrote:
Well, maybe that means that he died but is not explicit at all and because of that, we do not really know for sure (that was the intention). We also have to note that Dragon Balls are fused with Goku now and maybe after that, he gain eternal life. Kakarotto goes to the World of the Gods being dead? I don't think so. Besides, Goku has no halo ( please don't come with things like GT logic or something like that ).
Exactly if goku was dead non of that will make sense, If goku was a ghost/sprit when he destroyed Omega Shenron , Then what happened to Gokus body? Goku isn't a Namekian for his dead body to vanish in thin air at death.
How does Masako Nozawa saying Goku went to the world of the gods mean he is death? lol . specailly when he allready went to the world of the gods in living form. more like Goku has the life expectancy of the elder kai or the enternal dragon or simply there is no difference between a death person and a living person in GT since they can physically fight each other. Goku also was sparring with krillin etc before he left. so wouldn't call it GT logic but more Toei logic or either way ghost can appear in the living world as proven in the manga don't know whether they can travel between living world other world in their physical form within the manga.
MDSTSSJ wrote:
Well, maybe that means that he died but is not explicit at all and because of that, we do not really know for sure (that was the intention). We also have to note that Dragon Balls are fused with Goku now and maybe after that, he gain eternal life. Kakarotto goes to the World of the Gods being dead? I don't think so. Besides, Goku has no halo ( please don't come with things like GT logic or something like that ).
Exactly if goku was dead non of that will make sense, If goku was a ghost/sprit when he destroyed Omega Shenron , Then what happened to Gokus body? Goku isn't a Namekian for his dead body to vanish in thin air at death.
His body vanished when he died in the Saiyan Arc, because he was allowed to keep it. I don't see why the same can't apply to what happened at the end of GT.
MDSTSSJ wrote:Well, maybe that means that he died but is not explicit at all and because of that, we do not really know for sure (that was the intention).
IMO, what happens in Toyble's DBAF fits perfectly:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Dragon Ball AF: Episode Zero
- The promise with Shen Long -
Manga: toyble
_________________________________
The final decisive battle
with the Evil Dragons...
_________________________________
RUMBLE...
_________________________________
Goku, who was hit by Super Yi Xing Long's
last attack, used up all his strength
and eventually lost his life.
_________________________________
Rise...
_________________________________
(Fuwa) = an onomatopoeia used when something floats.
_________________________________
It looks like I died again...
_________________________________
Son Goku...
_________________________________
Shenlong!?
_________________________________
What?
You can see me?
Does that mean you're dead too?
_________________________________
That's not the case.
My entity on the Earth has been
destroyed by Super Yi Xing Long,
and I am now in a spiritual form...
_________________________________
Son Goku...!
Would you listen to two wishes
I have?
_________________________________
Shenlong wishes something from me?
What a rare event!
_________________________________
For one I want you to defeat
Omega Shen Long and liberate
my soul.
_________________________________
What are you saying, Shenlong?
I'm dead so I can't fight any longer.
_________________________________
If I use up my remaining power,
it's possible for me to bring you
back to life for a few minutes.
_________________________________
Really!!?
_________________________________
But I need you to listen to my
second wish as well.
_________________________________
I want you to supply your body
for my entity.
_________________________________
Would you then come with me to
the *Ryuoshin's Sacred Realm?
* (or Sacred World of the Dragon King)
_________________________________
...!
What's that?
The "Ryuoshin's Sacred Realm"...?
_________________________________
It is my home.
It is a world which is completely
cut off from the external world.
_________________________________
Once you enters there, you cannot go out
unless you are summoned by the dragon balls.
_________________________________
... I don't quite understand it,
but anything's okay if I'll be
brought back to life!
_________________________________
I have to beat that Yi Xing Long!
_________________________________
Is that really okay?
You won't be able to see your
friends again.
_________________________________
Yeah, no problem.
_________________________________
I have to listen to your wish too
for a change!
_________________________________
Thank you Shenlong for listening
to our wishes this whole time!
_________________________________
Thank you, Son Goku.
_________________________________
Flash
_________________________________
And so the resurrected Goku
defeated Super Yi Xing Long,
then vanished into The Sacred World
of the Dragon King according to
his promise...
_________________________________
To be continued... (to be continued
in DBAF)
_________________________________
Nice to meet you, I'm toyble.
Congratulations on the launch of Super DB.
Thanks to Omada-sama's courtesy he let me participate as a guest
and draw these two pages this time.
Since a simple cheering illustration wouldn't be any fun,
I wanted to stick close to some concept... that's what I thought,
but because I'm already drawing a sequel called DBAF myself I
eventually decided to draw some kind of prologue.
In other words, I'm advertising, lol. I'm sorry m(_ _)m
I'll keep praying from the bottom of my heart for a leap forward
of the general development of Dragonball doujinshi in the future.
______________________________________________________
So after that, Goku remained dead, went to Shenlong's world, and became his vessel for 100 years. Shenlong also restored his body to its prime, and he learned the ability of astral projection, so that he can visit the Earth in a way. Which means that his body was in the AfterLife (or wherever the hell he was) when he visited Goku Jr., but his mind was on Earth. As we saw, he could have physical contact with others, he can only be seen by those that he wants to, he can take a ghostly form, and he can "watch from above", but IMO, he can't use ki, or transform, or use his true strength, or fight at all when he is in that state.
So, by the very end of GT, Goku is dead, and can't visit Earth physically.
We also have to note that Dragon Balls are fused with Goku now and maybe after that, he gain eternal life. Kakarotto goes to the World of the Gods being dead? I don't think so.
Goku has gone to godly worlds when he was dead (Kaio's Planet, Dai Kaio's Planet, Kaioshin Realm), so him being dead shouldn't stop him from going to godly worlds.
Friezacooler wrote:How does Masako Nozawa saying Goku went to the world of the gods mean he is death? lol .
She said that they didn't "plainly killed him", meaning that they did kill him, but in a more mystical way (as we saw). Besides, it was also implied by Vegeta, Kame-sennin, and Piccolo that he was dead.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
I was glad that they didn’t write it plainly that he died = implies they didn't leave the implication (statement)he died at all in the show. The Saiyan saga situation is different, cause that one shows Goku was with kami sama in physical form+halo' and piccolo confirmed kami picked him up. In GT no such implications were made, and Goku don't have a halo at all so nahh not death all. aka nothing like the saiyan saga but more or less toei logic, unless manga shows them being capable of travelling within living world and other world in physical form.
I've never thought that Goku was "dead" at the end of GT (not in the normal sense, anyway, thus the lack of the halo), but I'm not entirely convinced he was actually alive/there/in the flesh, either. I felt like he was more of a mysterious presence or astral projection or something.
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I always believe Goku was put in a coma and he made a deal with Shenron via telepathically. Shenron will restore his heath back to normal if he can help purify the Dragon Balls back to normal. Goku's good-hearted body would be good enough to make the Dragon Balls back to normal.
It's kind of sad that the intentionally confusing and ambiguous ending is one of the most interesting things about the GT, and whilst intended as a definitive conclusion, whets the appetite for expansion upon more than anything else in the series managed to.
'Multiculturalism means nothing in Japan, for every outside culture must pass first through the Japanese filter, rendering it entirely Japanese in the process.' - Julian Cope.
That's how I always thought of it. When Goku fused with the Dragon Balls, he basically became a new Shenron (along with his pure heart purifying the Dragon Balls after they were corrupted
Dragon Ball GT is called GT for a reason stands for "Goku Time" so if the writers made him immortal i would not be suprised. GT is a just a crappy Goku fanboy fanfic
Vegeta12 wrote:Dragon Ball GT is called GT for a reason stands for "Goku Time" so if the writers made him immortal i would not be suprised. GT is a just a crappy Goku fanboy fanfic
The original Dragon Ball isn't much different in this subject if you think about it.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
In my view - Goku, having unknowingly absorb the Dragon Balls within his body, became Shenlong. At the end of DBGT, Shenlong states that the Dragon Balls will not work for a "long time". However, we could see them (and Goku in someway) back in their original state during the 100 year time-skip in Goku Jr.'s time. Just as DBZGTKOSDH, I too am fond of the way Goku's fate turns out in Toyble's AF manga, just not in the part he was referring to. I am fond of the idea of Goku being placed in the "Dragon Realm" and cannot return to Earth unless he is wished upon. If this is what truly happened, then at the end of GT - I can infer that Goku was given one last trip back to his home planet to see the battle between the new generations to ensure that Earth was left in good hands. This is why once Goku Jr. & Vegeta Jr. commenced their battle, Goku was pleased and fled the scene once he witnessed how strong they've become. As for his grave at the beginning of the "Hero's Legacy" film - I can infer that his grave is just a memorial considering how he fled with Shenlong 100 years back.
The only problem still unanswered is about the rate of ageing pan looks like a old bat while goku looks like 30 or 40. My theory is that goku is a pure saiyan hence doesn't age like her. Pan is half human so he would probably age like a human ...just like roshi .
. specailly when he allready went to the world of the gods in living form. more like Goku has the life expectancy of the elder kai or the enternal dragon or simply there is no difference between a death person and a living person in GT since they can physically fight each other. Goku also was sparring with krillin etc before he left. so wouldn't call it GT logic but more Toei logic or either way ghost can appear in the living world as proven in the manga don't know whether they can travel between living world other world in their physical form within the manga.
