What If Toriyama Tried To Make DBZ Deep?

thatdbzguy · Post by **thatdbzguy** » Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:49 pm

To elaborate, what if Toriyama made DBZ with more subtle, mature themes, characters that were at least 5-dimensional complexes, stories that strived to create thought-provoking messages and were full with so much philosophy, and was just overall much more planned out and not as poorly written?

Do you think that it would hurt the story more than anything? Do you even think Toriyama could even pull it off?

Wibbs · Post by **Wibbs** » Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:53 pm

I'm not trying to sound like a dick, but if DragonBall was like that I really don't think I would like it nearly as much as I do today. Being deep and mature would destroy all of the charm. The reason I like DragonBall is because it grabs my attention without all the pretentious bullshit that comes with having a "well written" story.

Gyt Kaliba · Post by **Gyt Kaliba** » Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:57 pm

I like overly deep stories as much as the next guy, but my favorite stuff does always tend to be the relatively light-hearted. There can be dark stuff and intensity to the story too, but all of my favorite stuff tends to be a good balance between comedy and action.

And as far as DB going 'deep' goes...I think it could, and probably should, be a little deeper in some places. The problem though is that's just not Toriyama's forte. This is a guy who excels at his best when he's allowed to make poop jokes. I don't know if he would have had it in him to do the fleshing out that I wish was there, much less anything more than that, especially not further in to Dragon Ball's run where he was quite worn out.

InfernalVegito · Post by **InfernalVegito** » Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:58 pm

It wouldn't have been Dragon Ball.

Dragon Ball is simple, mindless fun and that's what I like.

TheGmGoken · Post by **TheGmGoken** » Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:02 pm

Here ya go:

TheGmGoken wrote:Had Dragonball been planned out, I don't think it would had been as good as it was. I think the "Non Planning" style(Except for some things) works best for DB.

dbboxkaifan · Post by **dbboxkaifan** » Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:15 pm

If Dragon Ball in general were deep then it couldn't be aimed at children and there's one of the issues, the other is that DB is about having a good time not some kind of Chris Nolan production.

Makaioshin · Post by **Makaioshin** » Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:17 pm

Toriyama is not that type of writer. His comics are light, goofy, and happy.
Dragon Ball's story is fun and all but it is simply a vehicle for over the top action and a bit of comedy.

Wibbs · Post by **Wibbs** » Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:18 pm

Look at it this way, it's like if you took the original Legend of Zelda and Majora's mask. One is simple, mindless and fun whereas the other is deep and thought provoking. It's a matter of opinion. Some people are going to really enjoy it exactly the way it was and others will always have been wanting more from it. It's like Gyt Kaliba said, Toriyama just isn't used to writing deep and meaningful stories. If that's what you're looking for, you're better off looking elsewhere.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:22 pm

I think Dragon Ball is better off being the "simple pleasure" that it already is. It's managed to build up quite an expansive universe for itself for something that started as a goofy parody, and was never originally meant to be anything more than that.

TheAldella · Post by **TheAldella** » Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:27 pm

I think I'd rewatch it lots more. : o

B · Post by B » Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:55 pm

What if Dragon Ball Did None of the Things People Enjoy Dragon Ball For? Is that what you are asking?

baneofdemon22 · Post by **baneofdemon22** » Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:34 pm

Do you mean continuing with those deeper themes? Yes, I would absolutely want that!

thatdbzguy · Post by **thatdbzguy** » Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:45 pm

B wrote:What if Dragon Ball Did None of the Things People Enjoy Dragon Ball For? Is that what you are asking?

People enjoy Dragon Ball for the fighting, which would still be a big part of the franchise even if it was deep and complex.

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:15 am

If it were a deep story, it wouldn't have been accessible enough to just jump in wherever and immediately start having fun. If it were deep, Goku's arrival on Namek would've confused me enough to turn me away. Instead, I only had to go back one arc to be mostly caught up instead of seven.

Ringworm128 · Post by **Ringworm128** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:40 am

As long as it fits with DB and it's feel expanding on the characters personalities or why they do certain things along with a good message hidden in could actually work well if done right. But if the characters were to be rewritten and turned into something completely different with a dark tone put in for no good reason. If I want that I'l just watch Evangelion. A good example was a post made here about redoing DBZ, one of the ideas was turning Future Trunks into a gay prostitute. That's not deep, that's just dark for the sake of dark.

Vice · Post by **Vice** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:13 am

Gyt Kaliba wrote:I like overly deep stories as much as the next guy, but my favorite stuff does always tend to be the relatively light-hearted. There can be dark stuff and intensity to the story too, but all of my favorite stuff tends to be a good balance between comedy and action.

And as far as DB going 'deep' goes...I think it could, and probably should, be a little deeper in some places. The problem though is that's just not Toriyama's forte. This is a guy who excels at his best when he's allowed to make poop jokes. I don't know if he would have had it in him to do the fleshing out that I wish was there, much less anything more than that, especially not further in to Dragon Ball's run where he was quite worn out.

I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you here seeing as how the weakest parts of the series (Pilaf/Buu Sagas) are the parts where Toriyama is given free reign to make poop jokes and try to be funny.

Kid Buu · Post by **Kid Buu** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:20 am

5-dimensional?

I just don't think DB works as a deep franchise, part of what makes it enjoyable is that its simple and over the top.

B · Post by B » Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:10 am

thatdbzguy wrote:People enjoy Dragon Ball for the fighting,

Then why isn't every series with fighting as successful? Is it truly that simple?

Kid Buu · Post by **Kid Buu** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:13 am

Because no one can choreograph a battle scene as well as Akira Toriyama can in a Japanese Shonen comic, at least for me anyway.

DBZ Mick · Post by **DBZ Mick** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 3:23 am

Define depth, it's subjective.

I'd prefer Dragonball as it is, I find the characters developed enough, the stories have enough depth and are well written (Saiyan-Freeza, Piccolo Daimao) and it has plenty of charm which would probably be gone if it was too 'deep'. You don't need to be 'deep' to be enjoyable.

I wouldn't mind if some others tried in their own interpretations of Dragonball though.

Kanzenshuu

What If Toriyama Tried To Make DBZ Deep?

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