Why Did They Disappear?

[t-bone135]

As dumb as this topic sounds I think that it's deep thought (at least I hope it is.) When Piccolo and Kami fuse together, the dragonballs disappear. But what about the fact that Kami and Piccolo were tied by that bond of thiers. If that was true, then shouldn't the dragonballs have stuck around because Kami is just in Piccolo who was his other to begin with? In other words, Kami didn't actually die so the dragonballs should have been there. It wouldn't have been any different if it was reversed and it was Kami fusing with Piccolo, (right?) This has been bogiling my mind recently and I hope it's not another dumb question like my last one was. Thanks for your help, and for putting up with my ignorence.

[lost in thought]

I couldn't tell you, but that is a very interesting question. Thinking about it now, my very best guess involves the obligatory plot-hole call-out.

[Duo]

Because, from what I've seen, one must be pure good to create Dragonballs. This is the case with every sustainer as well. Now, while reunited, "he" certainly wasn't evil, but probably not purely so. Piccolo still had violence in him and a history of murder.

[Super Sonic]

As he said, the Piccolo personality was more dominant and that's why when Goku asked about what to call him, he responded as just Piccolo.

[t-bone135]

But didn't Gohan purge him of his evil? And I also thought that Piccolo (Ma Junior,) didn't actually kill anybody except Radditz. Certainly he had evil in his heart from his predecesor, but that was vanquished by Gohan's love and innocence I thought. After he died in the fight against Nappa, King Yemma allowed Piccolo to train with King Kai. Why would he have not been sent to Hell if he was evil at all? Sorry to go off on that tangent, but I thought by that time Piccolo was as pure as it got.

EDIT: One more thing: Didn't Piccolo fight more to protect then to destroy after the Tournament against Goku?

[MyVisionity]

As dumb as this topic sounds I think that it's deep thought (at least I hope it is.) When Piccolo and Kami fuse together, the dragonballs disappear. But what about the fact that Kami and Piccolo were tied by that bond of thiers. If that was true, then shouldn't the dragonballs have stuck around because Kami is just in Piccolo who was his other to begin with? In other words, Kami didn't actually die so the dragonballs should have been there. It wouldn't have been any different if it was reversed and it was Kami fusing with Piccolo, (right?) This has been bogiling my mind recently and I hope it's not another dumb question like my last one was. Thanks for your help, and for putting up with my ignorence.

Piccolo and Kami were indeed bound together by their respective life forces, but they still existed as individuals. Kami-sama was his own person just as Piccolo was. Kami was the one to create the Balls, not Piccolo. When Piccolo and Kami united through Namekian fusion, Kami-sama gave himself to Piccolo, after which he ceased to exist. And so the Dragonballs disappeared.

[t-bone135]

Piccolo and Kami were indeed bound together by their respective life forces, but they still existed as individuals. Kami-sama was his own person just as Piccolo was. Kami was the one to create the Balls, not Piccolo. When Piccolo and Kami united through Namekian fusion, Kami-sama gave himself to Piccolo, after which he ceased to exist. And so the Dragonballs disappeared.

Ah, but didn't #16 comment on him sensing two distinct power levels while Piccolo was powering up for #17? If Kami had ceased to exist, then how could his distinct signiture have been detectable at all? Even Goku noticed that Piccolo had traces of another power in him, calling him Kamiccolo in the dub (at least,) and that sort of thing didn't happen when Nail fused with Piccolo (to the best of my knowledge.) Piccolo wasn't even powered up and Goku detected it. It seems this little bit points to the fact that Kami was in fact existing with in Piccolo. Please realize I'm not arguing per say but I am trying to get to the bottom of this.

[MyVisionity]

Piccolo and Kami were indeed bound together by their respective life forces, but they still existed as individuals. Kami-sama was his own person just as Piccolo was. Kami was the one to create the Balls, not Piccolo. When Piccolo and Kami united through Namekian fusion, Kami-sama gave himself to Piccolo, after which he ceased to exist. And so the Dragonballs disappeared.

Ah, but didn't #16 comment on him sensing two distinct power levels while Piccolo was powering up for #17? If Kami had ceased to exist, then how could his distinct signiture have been detectable at all? Even Goku noticed that Piccolo had traces of another power in him, calling him Kamiccolo in the dub (at least,) and that sort of thing didn't happen when Nail fused with Piccolo (to the best of my knowledge.) Piccolo wasn't even powered up and Goku detected it. It seems this little bit points to the fact that Kami was in fact existing with in Piccolo. Please realize I'm not arguing per say but I am trying to get to the bottom of this.

Those comments were dub only. I remember that #16 quote, and in the original he says something along the lines of "That's not Piccolo!", based on the higher power reading. And the fusion that Piccolo did with Kami was the same that he did with Nail. The only significant difference being that Piccolo and Kami-sama were one to begin with. I can't remember if Goku made that Kamiccolo comment though, but the outcome is the same. You could say that Kami exists to some extent as a part of Piccolo, but no longer as an individual.

[Socar15]

Those comments were dub only. I remember that #16 quote, and in the original he says something along the lines of "That's not Piccolo!", based on the higher power reading.

I can confirm that for the manga as well (unless that's what you were talking about though I assume you're referring to the Japanese anime). Anyway, even though Kamisama is a part of Piccolo, the dragon balls were connected to his individual life force, and thus, when he became a part of Piccolo, his individual life force no longer existed. What I don't understand is why they needed Dende at all. With the knowledge he got from Kamisama, shouldn't Piccolo have been able to recreate the Shenron by himself?

[Leotaku]

What I don't understand is why they needed Dende at all. With the knowledge he got from Kamisama, shouldn't Piccolo have been able to recreate the Shenron by himself?

I thought they wanted Dende as the Guardian, not necessarily just as the guy to give them new DragonBalls. But hell, I haven't watched those (or any) episodes for some time now, and I don't remember.

[t-bone135]

What I don't understand is why they needed Dende at all. With the knowledge he got from Kamisama, shouldn't Piccolo have been able to recreate the Shenron by himself?

I thought they wanted Dende as the Guardian, not necessarily just as the guy to give them new DragonBalls. But hell, I haven't watched those (or any) episodes for some time now, and I don't remember.

I remember (at least in the anime,) that Goku went looking for New Namek and, after he found it, the Elder then suggested Dende saying he would be perfect for it due to his gifts. And the rest is history.

[Socar15]

The whole point of Goku visiting them (after Cell wiped out that army) was to get the dragon balls back, but Piccolo acted like he couldn't do it. Maybe Toriyama was just really wanting to get Dende back in the picture, but it seems like the knowledge he gained from Kamisama should have given him the ability to recreate Shenron. Oh well. I'm just going off the manga anyway.

[Eclipse]

True. But even if Piccolo recreated Shenron, he also would have repaired that link. Simply, if Piccolo dies, the Dragon Balls would die as well. Since Piccolo was a fighter, he was basically putting a huge risk in throwing himself into battle, and obviously the others did not want that.

[Socar15]

That's a good point, but I'm just wondering why they acted as if it weren't even a possibility. From the way Goku and Piccolo talked, it seemed as if they thought that the only way was for Kamisama to come back (or find someone new altogether. This is not the first time that something like this has happened. When Piccolo first confronts Kamisama about fusing, Kami replies that he needs more time to look over things. Piccolo then makes an offhand remark about how they will lose the ability to look down on the lower world after they rejoin. And yet, Piccolo seems to be able to do it later on anyway. Somewhat strange.

[Akira]

If you think about it, finding a replacement guardian was Son Goku's responsibility. At the end of the 23rd World Tournament, after Goku defeated Demon Piccolo Junior in battle, Kami Piccolo chose Son Goku to be his successor as the guardian of earth. Goku defied it and refused it at the time, but he was in a sense the earth's protector and guardian after that because he was the strongest on earth having surpassed even Kami Piccolo. When Kami Piccolo remerged with Demon Piccolo Junior, it was Goku's duty to either take his place or find a suitable substitute.

[Socar15]

I have to disagree. Just because Kamisama wanted Goku to become the new Kami and the fact that Goku was the strongest being on the planet doesn't mean it is suddenly his responsibility to find a new Kami. I would think Kami should have taken the responsibility to find a substitute (a willing successor that is) rather than just hope someone would eventually take over for him (if he even cared). Besides, just having a Kami for the sake of having a Kami is pretty pointless. What the heck does Kami do anyway? If someone like Dende can take over just because he can create the dragon balls, obviously the position itself isn't too important anymore. Besides, when Goku showed up to talk to Piccolo, his concern wasn't about finding a new Kami, it was strictly about finding a way to reactivate the dragon balls to resurrect those killed by Cell. But my chief curiosity still remains to why they acted as if Piccolo didn't have the ability to reactivate the dragon balls.

[Dayspring]

my chief curiosity still remains to why they acted as if Piccolo didn't have the ability to reactivate the dragon balls.

The son of Katats couldn't be Kami because he didn't have a purely good heart. So he split into Piccolo and Kami. Since both were defusions of a Namek who was of the Dragon Clan (non-combattant at that), both could do powerful magic. Piccolo's evil might account for why his magic seems to be limited to making monsters, as well as explain why he can kick ass. Anyway, Piccolo's son, Ma Junior Piccolo, is pure combattant class. This new Namek then completely surpasses Kami, and fuses with another Namek who had also completely surpassed Kami. When Piccolo refuses with Kami, he's so much of the original Ma Junior Piccolo that he wants to be called Piccolo.

In conclusion, "Kamicollo" is pretty much 99% combattant class, and therefore can't make DBs.

[Socar15]

I understand why Piccolo couldn't have become Kami (though to be fair, Kamisama did say that Piccolo's evil heart had all but disappeared, so when fused with Kamisama, they should have been just about pure good).

Saichourou mentioned that the son of Katat was a member of the dragon tribe, so that would explain why he could make dragon balls. On the other hand, Saichourou mentioned that he was also one of the strongest in the village (Saichourou also acted confused as to why he would have been able to be beat by a Saiyajin), which suggests that he was also a fighter-type, so I don't believe that was the reason that Piccolo couldn't make dragon balls. However, Piccolo Daimaou did act as if he never knew anything about the dragon balls until Pilaf told him, so maybe it has something to do with having a pure heart (which would explain why Goku asked Piccolo if he and Kami could become separate people again). It’s either that, or when the son of Katat split between Kamisama and Piccolo, the part that became Piccolo had no dragon ball creating attributes. I still think that when they fuse it should have given Piccolo those abilities, otherwise the “fusion” is actually just an absorption. Obviously it did give Piccolo some abilities that he didn’t have before such as peaking down on the lower world (not sure what you would call that ability) as well as greater wisdom. As I mentioned before, I’m not sure if Toriyama kept it straight about what he was trying to do since before, Piccolo said that after they joined they would lose the ability to look down on the lower world, and yet they retained it. After they joined, he also said that he was no longer Piccolo, but then when Goku made the Kamiccolo joke, he said that he was still Piccolo. So I’m not really sure what to make of it all, but whatever. Obviously Toriyama wanted to bring in Dende, nor did he want Piccolo to be connected with the dragon balls, so either way, people probably wouldn’t have noticed.

[Dayspring]

If it is a purity thing, then Piccolo is far from being pure. Without Nail and Kami, Piccolo is pretty much a bad guy with the ability to care about those he loves. To an extent, that would apply to Freeza and Cold, but it wouldn't mean they're both good.

As for Namekkian fusion, it pretty much *is* just an absorption. Nail told Piccolo that, Kami told him that. Sure he acquired a few personality traits, but those were assimilated too.

[BlaZin]

From what I remember didn't Piccolo just refuse the job as guardian of Earth? I thought at one point earlier in the series he was offered the postition but just didn't want to do it. So when he fused with Kami his agenda was to obtain greater power so he'd have the upper hand over Cell, not to take Kami's place and responsibilities. So afterwards like someone said, Goku was just looking for a way to resurrect the dragonballs and thus went to Namek. Where the new guru insisted that Dende was the man for the job after hearing about kami and piccolo. So Dende wasn't just handed the job, he obliviously met some qualifications as well as already had some ties to Earth because of the friends he made back in the day. So him being a Namek with the ability to create his own set of dragon balls was just a plus that really sealed the deal. I think you need to give Toriyama the benefit of the doubt, after all I think he knew what he was doing. Think about the bigger picture. Also someone said Piccolo ended up looking over the Earth anyway, hey two heads are better then one right? Plus I bet he was just giving Dende some pointers, sharing his keen wisdom and he probably really needed a place to chill and call home too. Piccolo is still doing his best to fend for the Earth's protection whether its fighting or strategizing. In some ways he is kind of Guardian of the Earth, without the title or liability. So if things do go wrong, let's say like the Earth blowing up, it's not his fault, Dende f-ed up lol.