Need More Info Regarding Master Audio Tapes For Dragon Ball

[Arian]

Okay. So this is what I know about the situation involving Japanese Stereo Audio for the Dragon Ball series so far:

Dragon Ball:

As far as I'm concerned, the audio tapes for Dragon Ball are trashed. A friend of mine told me Toei did not get rid of them, just did not release them. I don't believe it, as it's not consistent with the the rest of their actions in the 80's and 90's regarding audio tapes. Stereo Audio for the Japanese version is only available on raw VHS/Betmax/Video8 tapes carried by enthusiasts and fansubs sold between the early 1990's and early 2000's.

Dragon Ball Z:

There is no doubt in anyone's mind that the Stereo Audio for the 291 episode Dragon Ball Z series is gone forever. Again, they can only be heard on raw TV tapes or copied fansubs.





Dragon Ball GT:

The Stereo Audio tapes do in fact exist. Not put on any commercial release, but can be heard when airing on Animax in Japan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_W-dIt67SmI


Now here's where I'm confused. The 17 Dragon Ball movies produced between 1986 and 1995. All commercial releases have Mono Audio, but these are movies, and are obviously cared for more than the episodes, like with the better animation and such, and as we've seen in the past, Toei has been pretty lazy with how they handle audio.

My question to all of you is, do any of you know of any medium that could have Stereo Japanese Audio for the films, like bootlegs or any Television networks. Right now, I'm just to collect as much information as I can.

To Administrators and Moderators: If this information has been posted elsewhere, I do apologize. I did look, and did not find a specific answer to my question. I hope you will understand.

[Puto]

Okay, time out. You're misunderstanding what 'stereo' and 'mono' are.

Dragon Ball and Z were produced in mono from start to finish. What was trashed weren't 'stereo audio tapes', it was just 'good quality audio tapes'. They were still only 1 channel, a.k.a. mono.

GT was initially produced in mono too for the first 4 episodes, but 5 episodes in they started producing it in stereo. This is also the case in current Animax airings.

The Dragon Ball movies were produced in mono except for Z movie 13 (the dragon fist one). Unlike DB, Z and GT, the existing (Japanese) DVD releases have the original audio masters and so they don't sound terrible. But they're still mono.

tldr; You're grossly misinformed about the whole situation.

[dan2026]

To be honest the audio for Dragon Ball Z sounds diabolical. Not quite sure why it sounds quite so awful, but there you go.

So glad Kai re-recorded the audio. Finally the speech doesn't sound like it was recorded underwater.

[Fulicer]

To be honest the audio for Dragon Ball Z sounds diabolical. Not quite sure why it sounds quite so awful, but there you go.

So glad Kai re-recorded the audio. Finally the speech doesn't sound like it was recorded underwater.

It sounds "diabolical" because the current source (optical track with film) is inferior to the original audio masters. The original broadcasts sound great:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1seVzmeM-8

Compare that to any released DVD, and it's obviously better. People think that TOEI threw away the original audio masters, which is probably why "modern" releases sound a bit like garbage -- tolerable but still kind of crappy no matter how many times people say "they've cleaned it up." kei17 knows a lot about this stuff.

Okay, time out. You're misunderstanding what 'stereo' and 'mono' are.

Yeah I wish people would know better. Channel count has nothing to do with how clean each channel sounds (i.e. quality per channel).

[Arian]

tldr; You're grossly misinformed about the whole situation.

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Calm down, I think I have put a good amount of time researching it, and just because I didn't know the difference between Stereo and High Quality Mono, even though I've heard many others refer to it as Stereo, doesn't mean I know nothing.

I think you're "grossly" exaggerating.

[MarcFBR]

tldr; You're grossly misinformed about the whole situation.

<Image macro removed by moderator>

Calm down, I think I have put a good amount of time researching it, and just because I didn't know the difference between Stereo and High Quality Mono, even though I've heard many others refer to it as Stereo, doesn't mean I know nothing.

I think you're "grossly" exaggerating.

If you put in a good amount of time researching it you probably wouldn't have gotten one of the base facts wrong.

It's kinda like going "I've researched Superman a lot... tell me about the town he lives in, Toronto."

[Arian]

That's not a base fact. It's not as bloody obvious as "the sky is blue" or "the cow says MOOO!" That's a very subtle difference, and though I was corrected on that, you all seem to have the inability to do it without having your heads up your rear ends.

[Gaffer Tape]

While it is indeed something not everyone seems to grasp or be aware of (judging how often that confusion comes up here), it's not really a subtle difference, per se. It's in the very definition of the words. Mono or monophonic means, basically, one sound (that is, sound mixed through one channel). Stereo or stereophonic means, basically, two sounds (that is, sound mixed and separated through two channels). Nothing in there is a statement about quality. If you've never seen or heard of a cow, you probably won't know what sound it makes. If you've lived your entire life indoors, the color of the sky is probably not so obvious. If you're at all familiar with sound mixing, the difference between stereo and mono is considered pretty basic and obvious. What's "bloody obvious" is all a matter of perspective, really.

Also, heads up rear ends? Rude and not likely to be tolerated around these parts. Just a friendly heads up. After all, there's no need for things to get started on the wrong foot.

[Arian]

Let me ask you something, is there a class in elementary school that tells you the difference between Monophonic sound and Stereo 2-way sound? Do Mommy and Daddy have a talk with you about the difference between Stereo and Mono? Do you have weekly seminars on the difference between Stereo and Mono? No? Then I would say that the proper way to identify them is not obvious until one is told by someone who knows. So do not scold me for not knowing.

Furthermore, you seem to enjoy being a wise-ass when you are pretty much backing up my point. If you've never been outside, you wouldn't know what sound the cow makes, if you've never been outside, you wouldn't know the sky is blue, and if you didn't have a major sound system, you wouldn't be able to interpret the difference between Stereo and Mono, so again I don't know why you people are so harsh.

Lastly, I'm being rude!? Excuse me? So you can accuse people of knowing nothing and condescendingly talk down to them for getting one point wrong, but to stand up for yourself and throw the shit they threw at you back at them is intolerable? Give me a break, please. If I ran a forum, I think treating people like they're morons would the first thing on my no tolerance list.

[Metalwario64]

Let me ask you something, is there a class in elementary school that tells you the difference between Monophonic sound and Stereo 2-way sound? Do Mommy and Daddy have a talk with you about the difference between Stereo and Mono? Do you have weekly seminars on the difference between Stereo and Mono? No? Then I would say that the proper way to identify them is not obvious until one is told by someone who knows. So do not scold me for not knowing.

I've known what the difference was since I was 6 or so. I often see people saying "I didn't know what this word meant". Whenever I see a word I am unfamiliar with, I usually look it up in the dictionary to see what it means.

[VegettoEX]

Arian, you're pretty out of line. For starters, Puto isn't American and I'm fairly certain English isn't his first language. While I do think you can read what he wrote in the wrong tone, I'm sure it wasn't meant that way. Second... well, you asked questions and you were answered with explanations that your information was false. You, in all senses of the phrase, got exactly what you asked for! Please just accept it and be thankful that you've been more further educated.

You (apparently, since another moderator took care of it) started out with a meme/macro image and just got more and more rude from there. So you're right: that's unacceptable behavior on a forum, and we're not going to tolerate it. Please don't be rude back at people who are answering the questions you're asking.

[Gaffer Tape]

First off, I wasn't being a "wise-ass," and I apologize for coming off that way. I was actually legitimately trying to be helpful and bring some levity to a tense situation as well as make the point to *everyone* that just because something is obvious to one person doesn't make it obvious to everybody (in other words, I was defending you!), but you're apparently so wound up and defensive right now that it passed right over you. Since kindness is lost on you (and let's be fair, the tone in text can sometimes be hard to catch), let's be direct then, shall we? You started a thread asking for information on a topic. People responded giving you exactly that: information. While it perhaps *could* have been given more gently, there was nothing inappropriate in the way they responded to you that I can see. However, you resented being corrected and have proceeded to reply with an increasingly bad attitude to anyone who has tried to contribute here. So what exactly is it that you want? Because if you're just here to have your hand held and get angry when people tell you you're wrong, then I'm guessing you're probably not going to thrive here. Or do you actually want help in increasing your knowledge of this topic like your original post seemed to imply? If so, awesome! Glad to have you with us, and I legitimately mean that.

EDIT: Aaaaand Mike beat me to it.

[Arian]

@VegettoEX

You're right. I'm an anti-social prick. But I will not shut up when someone makes a statement about me that isn't true. I did appreciate the information, but not the snide remarks.

@Gaffer Tape

I accept your apology. In your case I could kind of see where you were coming from and then when you took my broad analogies and twisted them I thought you were mocking me. I'm sorry for offending you in particular. You're a nice guy.

To the rest of you, I'm not feelin' the love.

[MarcFBR]

Let me ask you something, is there a class in elementary school that tells you the difference between Monophonic sound and Stereo 2-way sound? Do Mommy and Daddy have a talk with you about the difference between Stereo and Mono? Do you have weekly seminars on the difference between Stereo and Mono? No? Then I would say that the proper way to identify them is not obvious until one is told by someone who knows. So do not scold me for not knowing

Just to point out, people normally would have just explained it and corrected you minus the fact that you claimed to put in a decent amount of time researching it, yet you had no idea what mono/stereo was, nor that in fact, DB/DBZ never had stereo audio in the first place.

And for the record, when dealing with audio, the difference between mono/stereo is in fact as obvious as 'the sky is blue.'

But I will not shut up when someone makes a statement about me that isn't true.

I feel I should ask... what did someone say about you that wasn't true? The closest thing I see that could have set you off is someone calling you 'grossly misinformed', which is in fact right on the nose in this particular case.

To the rest of you, I'm not feelin' the love.

No time for love Dr. Jones.

[shinmaru]

I Have those fansub Tapes i got 291 too.
Need only Vcr to see how the quality is.
Where did you get those fantape's pic? i got exactly those.

[BojGrass]

This topic are quite interesting to me. Partly because I have an interest in audio production (well...production in general), partly because things like the masters being gone always interest me as far as "why" it's lost, and aprtly because I only recently learned in another thread about the masters being chucked out/taped over/lost by Toei. Is it actually known what Toei did with them? Or is it all basically conjecture at this point?

It sounds "diabolical" because the current source (optical track with film) is inferior to the original audio masters. The original broadcasts sound great:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1seVzmeM-8

Compare that to any released DVD, and it's obviously better. People think that TOEI threw away the original audio masters, which is probably why "modern" releases sound a bit like garbage -- tolerable but still kind of crappy no matter how many times people say "they've cleaned it up." kei17 knows a lot about this stuff.

This has my interest piqued. How much of the broadcast audio has been captured this clean on VHS and made digital? Not that Toei would do anything if the fans handed them their audio back, but if Dragon Ball would ever go through another resurgence in popularity enough to warrant another Japanese release to home video it'd be nice if as much of the audio as possible sounded like that YouTube video.

(Note: I apologize for the fantasy. My mind's just a little blown as I've never heard the Japanese version sound so good before)

As far as mono vs. stereo and one being better sound quality: it all comes down to the engineer. A killer engineer can make something sound good whether it's mono, stereo, or surround.

[Kojiro Sasaki]

How much of the broadcast audio has been captured this clean on VHS and made digital?

I believe that there are people who have the entire series.

Not that Toei would do anything if the fans handed them their audio back, but if Dragon Ball would ever go through another resurgence in popularity enough to warrant another Japanese release to home video it'd be nice if as much of the audio as possible sounded like that YouTube video.

It depends on our devotion and... number In other words - forget about it.

As far as mono vs. stereo and one being better sound quality: it all comes down to the engineer. A killer engineer can make something sound good whether it's mono, stereo, or surround.

Everything depends on what you mean by “sound quality”. The fidelity itself (all parameters of sound except one) is the same but with mono, you completely lose variety of sound directionality which is very important part of sound reproduction. This is the only thing for which stereo was invented.

I don't think that you can compare monaural recording to stereo one. Mono will never sound as good as stereo because it does not have “stereo image” which adds* much to the sounding, gives great listening experience and makes better use of our auditory perception.
Why do we have two ears instead of one?

* - actually, it carries more of the original information instead of adding something.
(I really have a hard time with writing all these technical things in English I hope that my text above is understandable)

[JEFFMAN219]

I got a question for you guys, why in the hell would Toai animation destroy the original audio master tapes?

[Ajay]

Because back then home video wasn't really a thing for anime. Tape was all stored physically and for a show that's 291 episodes long; that's a shit load of tape!

They figured it simply wasn't cost effective to try and keep it all around.

Such a shame.

[JEFFMAN219]

Because back then home video wasn't really a tsound for anime. Tape was all stored physically and for a show that's 291 episodes long; that's a shit load of tape!

They figured it simply wasn't cost effective to try and keep it all around.

Such a shame.

Wow are they stupid? They should've known that DBZ is one of the most popular anime not only in Japan but worldwide. I actually just scene a clip with the broadcast audio and man it sounds really good. Oh well at least the Kai DVDs/Blu Rays have the good audio quality for the Japanese version.