Freeza and his men all have stereotypically "gay" traits?

[Fizzer]

What first drew my attention to this was Team Four Star's portrayal of Zarbon, and the fact that it's quite clear why they portrayed him that way. Someone I know I actually thought that Zarbon was a woman when she saw a picture of him, and, as we know, people often think the same of Freeza, even without hearing him played by Linda Young.

I know these guys are probably all just sexless aliens, but they're all basically male characters and I picked up on something here. There's Zarbon's feminine appearance, his preoccupation with how he looks and his dislike of getting wet, Freeza's appearance and some aspects of his personality (in Japanese and Kai, especially Kai), and the Ginyu Force, who are highly flamboyant and theatrical. Dodoria doesn't really have anything, except, well, he's pink.

Have any of you noticed this before? I don't actually think it's an intentional joke or anything, just something that's kind of there.

[dbboxkaifan]

What first drew my attention to this was Team Four Star's portrayal of Zarbon, and the fact that it's quite clear why they portrayed him that way. Someone I know I actually thought that Zarbon was a woman when she saw a picture of him, and, as we know, people often think the same of Freeza, even without hearing him played by Linda Young.

I know these guys are probably all just sexless aliens, but they're all basically male characters and I picked up on something here. There's Zarbon's feminine appearance, his preoccupation with how he looks and his dislike of getting wet, Freeza's appearance and some aspects of his personality (in Japanese and Kai, especially Kai), and the Ginyu Force, who are highly flamboyant and theatrical. Dodoria doesn't really have anything, except, well, he's pink.

Have any of you noticed this before? I don't actually think it's an intentional joke or anything, just something that's kind of there.

What's this supposed to mean, the English FUNimation dub of Kai? You can't just say "Kai" if it is.

Anyway, they're just males who're worried with their looks and that's a good thing.

[penguintruth]

You might be reading too much into it. At most they're effete upperclass aristocrats that sit around admiring how great they are. Not necessarily feminine, but broadly flamboyant as the result of narcissism.

I get the feeling that Freeza and his men never really had to work at being powerful, many of them never actually had to train and suffer to get where they were, in opposition to Goku, a low-class Saiyan who had to sweat and grit his teeth to get where he is.

[Fizzer]

What's this supposed to mean, the English FUNimation dub of Kai? You can't just say "Kai" if it is.

Anyway, they're just males who're worried with their looks and that's a good thing.

Yeah, I did mean the FUNi dub, sorry about that.

You might be reading too much into it. At most they're effete upperclass aristocrats that sit around admiring how great they are. Not necessarily feminine, but broadly flamboyant as the result of narcissism.

Yeah, I suppose that is a trait that both stereotypes share.

[JackyBoi99]

I would say that furiza's men have more metrosexual then homosexual traits. They like to look good but that doesn't mean that they are gay.

[some_weirdGuy]

I thought it was someone obvious that was their theme. What I find strange is how many feel the need to vehemently deny it, as if they somehow find it insulting to imply such a theme is present, or as if because frieza and his two goons don't wrap their legs up around our heroes faces and demand man-to-man blow jobs that they can't possibly be themed on Transgenderism. ((which speaks to a very ignorant view of homosexuality))

Gender ambiguity/unconventional sexuality; butch drag-queen dodoria, zarbon as an effeminate homosexual, and frieza's transexual/gender ambiguous characteristics.
It's not like it's the first time Toriyama has included elements of sexuality/homosexuality as part of a characters theme and design.
I found it to be quite clever and tastefully done(unlike that filler stuff with Blue... yeah toei, being a homosexual clearly means he's a paedophile too -_-), giving them interesting and distinctive designs which also tie in well with their alien-ness.


Never much counted the ginyu force in it, but i guess you could say their flamboyant behaviour is tangentially related. The trans theme though really only centre's around frieza, dodoria and zarbon - the rest of Frieza's men, including the likes of vegeta, don't tend to utilise it. Funnily enough the gender stuff also ties in with toriyama's statement about frieza being a combination of childhood fears - many young males have a somewhat homophobic outlook and find transgenderism quite taboo or uncomfortable.

[ABED]

I thought it was someone obvious that was their theme. What I find strange is how many feel the need to vehemently deny it, as if they somehow find it insulting to imply such a theme is present, or as if because Freeza and his two goons don't wrap their legs up around our heroes faces and demand man-to-man blow jobs that they can't possibly be themed on Transgenderism. ((which speaks to a very ignorant view of homosexuality))

Gender ambiguity/unconventional sexuality; butch drag-queen dodoria, zarbon as an effeminate homosexual, and Freeza's transexual/gender ambiguous characteristics.
It's not like it's the first time Toriyama has included elements of sexuality/homosexuality as part of a characters theme and design.
I found it to be quite clever and tastefully done(unlike that filler stuff with Blue... yeah toei, being a homosexual clearly means he's a paedophile too -_-), giving them interesting and distinctive designs which also tie in well with their alien-ness.


Never much counted the ginyu force in it, but i guess you could say their flamboyant behaviour is tangentially related. The trans theme though really only centre's around Freeza, dodoria and zarbon - the rest of Freeza's men, including the likes of vegeta, don't tend to utilise it. Funnily enough the gender stuff also ties in with toriyama's statement about Freeza being a combination of childhood fears - many young males have a somewhat homophobic outlook and find transgenderism quite taboo or uncomfortable.

It's not obvious, nor do I think you're correct. I just think they're flamboyant and effeminate. I don't think we can discount that Toriayma wasn't the most enlightened person when it came to homosexuals, but I don't think they are transgendered at all.

There is not trans theme. Toriyama is pretty surface level, and I've never once heard anything that supports the transgender theme.

[The Monkey King]

Abd don't for get all of Freeza's troops are named after fruits...People still call homosexuals 'fruity' right?

[ABED]

Abd don't for get all of Freeza's troops are named after fruits...People still call homosexuals 'fruity' right?

That seems like a stretch. Freeza's family's names are temp based. Saiyans are named after vegetables. All of Toriyama's characters are named after fruit or something odd.

[garnetjester]

I always thought Zarbon was definitely gay, but Freeza seemed probably asexual but ridiculously spoiled and flamboyant. I don't think Toriyama is aware of the "fruity" word, because it might be a western thing.

[Marco Polo]

It's pretty obvious when Toriyama makes a stereotypically gay character. Freeza isn't an example of this.

[Ringworm128]

Zarbon seems to be bishonen which is a fairly common character type/design in Japan rather then "gay".

[some_weirdGuy]

http://i.imgur.com/Q4mT52V.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/U32TANL.png

It's pretty obvious when Toriyama makes a stereotypically gay character. Freeza isn't an example of this.

Pretty sure that last guy isn't by Toriyama, he's a GT character. ((Edit for the two below: Ah, I see, I remember they reused him in GT, he worked for trunks Since he's a one-shot character I'd expect toriyama to exaggerate as a thematic shortcut, his more main characters tend to be more rounded though))

And Blue has the occasional reference that he might be gay but his sexuality isn't smashed over your face for every scene he's in, instead treating him with the dignity of being an actual character, you know, who does stuff other than 'sit around being gay'.

Toriyama doesn't make much of characters sexuality because it simply isn't relevant 99% of the time. Anime kinda played up general blue's homosexuality, I believe manga had it down to like 1 or 2 hints max. Either way, I'm getting off topic since the question wasn't 'are frieza and his men gay', it's about their traits/design. (eg. visuals, mannerisms, and any actual references to sexuality, which there are none)

*I disagree*

I see, they have to be sections off as 'just flamboyant and effeminate but definitely totally not trans themed', because toriyama can't possibly have made one group of aliens based on transgender elements >.<
As touched on above, we're not talking about their actual sexual preference or anything ((though I'd hope you'd know transgenderism is much more broad than 'gay')), just the characteristics of their design or other such traits.

Compare them to every other character design he's made, literally no others utilise such 'stereotypically' transgender characteristics, not even the other aliens, meaning they were very purposely chosen - as you said, he was a fairly surface level guy. In the same way Popo is pretty undeniably black-faced, doesn't matter your opinion on blackface and doesn't mean he is 'black', but his design is clearly based off black face.
((I'd argue frieza's design, especially true form, is perhaps inspired by a geisha's makeup, elegant white skin, elongated eyes(an eye shape he hadn't ever used before unless I'm mistaken, and you can see brings in the red element for the iris itself), and coloured lips which particularly stand out))

[Gaffer Tape]

Pretty sure that last guy isn't by Toriyama, he's a GT character.

Nope. He is. One of the competitors in the 28th Tenkaichi Budoukai.

[VegettoEX]

That last guy is "Otokosuki" (literally "likes men") and he is a character from the 28th Tenka'ichi Budokai at the end of the manga-proper.

[Fizzer]

Pretty sure that last guy isn't by Toriyama, he's a GT character.

Nope. He is. One of the competitors in the 28th Tenkaichi Budoukai.

However, unlike Blue or any of the other characters mentioned, he exists purely as a joke, and not a full character. I'm guessing that's why he's different in that regard.

[The Tori-bot]

And, of course,

Spoiler:

Dodoria is a woman.

[ABED]

I see, they have to be sections off as 'just flamboyant and effeminate but definitely totally not trans themed', because toriyama can't possibly have made one group of aliens based on transgender elements >.<
As touched on above, we're not talking about their actual sexual preference or anything ((though I'd hope you'd know transgenderism is much more broad than 'gay')), just the characteristics of their design or other such traits.

Compare them to every other character design he's made, literally no others utilise such 'stereotypically' transgender characteristics, not even the other aliens, meaning they were very purposely chosen - as you said, he was a fairly surface level guy. In the same way Popo is pretty undeniably black-faced, doesn't matter your opinion on blackface and doesn't mean he is 'black', but his design is clearly based off black face.
((I'd argue Freeza's design, especially true form, is perhaps inspired by a geisha's makeup, elegant white skin, elongated eyes(an eye shape he hadn't ever used before unless I'm mistaken, and you can see brings in the red element for the iris itself), and coloured lips which particularly stand out))

You seem to be really touchy about this, and it seems like you believe I'm disgusted by the idea that he would have a transgender character. I made no comment about transgenders being or not being gay. That wasn't my issue. I was merely disagreeing that I don't think it's at all a "theme" (you use theme, but I'm not sure that's the exact word you want to use in this context) in DBZ. I don't see how, nor do I see how it's "obvious". It's not obvious, nor was Popo for that matter. It's only obvious once you know the reference which isn't that well known theses days. You can be flamboyant and have stereotypically effeminate characteristics and be male.

[auspx]

Never much counted the ginyu force in it, but i guess you could say their flamboyant behaviour is tangentially related. The trans theme though really only centre's around Freeza, dodoria and zarbon - the rest of Freeza's men, including the likes of vegeta, don't tend to utilise it. Funnily enough the gender stuff also ties in with toriyama's statement about Freeza being a combination of childhood fears - many young males have a somewhat homophobic outlook and find transgenderism quite taboo or uncomfortable.

Dodoria was probably modeled after Drum from DB. Kiwi looks very similar to Tambourine (without wings) and just like him Kiwi dies while trying to escape. Zarbon may have been modeled after General Blue.

[Fionordequester]

You know, I'm surprised nobody mentions the black speedos everyone was wearing in the Frieza arc. If anything screams "gay", it's that. And yeah, I know the Saiyan's were doing it first, but weren't they using Frieza's tech by the time we see them (like the scouters)?