What if the Funimation English Version was the Original?

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What if the Funimation English Version was the Original?

Post by Lumos » Sat May 10, 2014 8:44 am

Hello everyone - long time lurker and fan of the website/forum!

Now, as first posts go, I understand this topic might seem more than a little out there and strange but, considering that this concept's never really been discussed before, I think that it might be at least a somewhat interesting thing to bring to the table.

Essentially, what I'm wondering (assuming that is the title didn't give me away :P) is what would happen if the Funimation English Dub of Dragon Ball/Z/GT/Kai was in fact the bona fide original with plenty of emphasis then on Z in particular? The reason I'm asking is because one of the primary criticisms I see against their English Dubs is that they changed so many things when they simply did not have the right to. Additionally, the reason I'm using their version of the series as an example is because of how often I see it cited as a bad adaptation on this very forum.

Now don't get me wrong - in no way, shape or form am I defending their English Dubs and, exempting Kai, I more or less fully agree with some of the vitriol that their versions receive. There was a time however when this was not true and this is perhaps a secondary reason of mine for starting this topic. When I was a kid, the English versions of Dragon Ball Z were arguably my favourite things in all the world. I had no real idea about the series origins and that it came from Japan and, not to sound culturally insensitive then, but even if I had been made aware at some point I'm not entirely sure that I would have cared.

In fact, it wasn't until the introduction of Kai way back in 2009 and thanks to this very website/forum in fact that I learnt there was a whole lot more to the series than I'd first imagined. Although I'd been briefly introduced to the original version back when I played the first Budokai game, I saw the inclusion of the Japanese cast as more of a quirk than a perk to be brutally honest. Furthermore, I also fell in love with the manga back in 2005 but even then I did not have the means to research the series further due to a lack of regular internet access at the time. And whilst I still haven't seen/read all of the original series - far from it in fact - I nevertheless have a rising respect for that version (and not just because it's the one that came first). Once more exempting Kai, the same can't be said for Funimation English Dubs.

When I was first exposed to the Japanese version though it certainly took me quite a while to fully adjust. This was mainly in regards to the characterization - I had long since believed that Goku for instance was the 'Light in the Darkness' and the answer to all living things that cried out for peace so then to see him almost 'downgraded' in a certain sense was to be blunt a large culture shock. I also remember finding it somewhat hard to accept that Freeza hadn't moulded Vegeta into a killer and that he was more or less set on this path from the start. This was not only because I'd grown up with these versions but also because I didn't really consider that the way these characters had been represented was ultimately wrong. Obviously I was only fourteen at the time and you can pin it down to immaturity all you want but frankly I didn't see why Goku couldn't make these big dramatic speeches just because he'd grown up in the woods. Although Goku was very much a hick in what volumes of the manga I'd read, this only seemed perfectly natural to me because in the volumes I had read he was a kid. I guess I just assumed that Goku would have to grow up for the most part like everyone else even though in retrospect the progression from the latter to the former doesn't make much sense.

So my question to you then is how you would view the Japanese version had it actually been the other way round and they changed the characterization/plot for a number of reasons? What if Goku was in fact the hope of the universe? What if Yamcha was originally intended to be a surfer dude? What if Freeza was actually meant to be voiced by a woman? How would you feel if the Japanese version had changed all that because to be fair - and no disrespect to those who watch the English Dubs - the acting and writing for the most part is noticeably better.

I suppose to branch out the discussion even then are there any particular characterizations in the English Dub that you wish would have stuck? Although I might not have liked the idea at first, I for one am glad that Goku is not someone who would spare Vegeta out of the kindness of his heart for many reasons with the key one being that it's nowhere near as compelling as his actual motives. Do you also think the series would have caught on around the rest of the world like it did in America with this as a template? Would this forum even exist seeing as how it was made out of love for the original version?

What do you think?
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Re: What if the Funimation English Version was the Original?

Post by theoriginalbilis » Sat May 10, 2014 9:07 am

The implications of how this would work are paradigm-shifting. In order for the FUNi version to be the "original".... Well, I guess that would mean that Akira Toriyama, Shueisha, and Toei would either have to be based in America, or that FUNimation would've had to have been the primary backer/producer for the animated adaptation, which could never have happened, considering how little money they had back then.

Either way, I'm not sure quite what you're trying to get at. This seems to me like one of those threads where people are trying to find ways to pardon/defend the English versions, or at least rally a bunch of people to sing its praises. Which I don't necessarily hold that against anyone... :D

I guess if the FUNimation adaptation was the original version of the animated series... I would've watched it on Toonami, had fun, and then most likely never pick up the series again. The manga and the Japanese version are the things that made me stick with the franchise since 1998. The English adaptation really doesn't hold up to rewatching IMO.

In terms of how it would affect the series on a global level, I don't think the series would be as popular worldwide either if the dub was the original version. The Japanese version existed since the late 80s, and that was dubbed to other countries shortly thereafter, thus building the show's popularity throughout the world YEARS before it came to the US. If the English version was the original, it would've come into existence in the late 90's, and wouldn't have had as much time to gain a global following.

Speaking of, anyone else in favor of moving all of the "let's defend the dub" topics into one thread for convenience/reducing the redundancy factor? *raises hand*
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Re: What if the Funimation English Version was the Original?

Post by JackyBoi99 » Sat May 10, 2014 9:23 am

I would still like the content of the show, but would be irritated by the quality of acting.
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Re: What if the Funimation English Version was the Original?

Post by thomas1up » Sat May 10, 2014 9:36 am

I most likely wouldn't have ever watched the series, I tried watching the english funi version first but couldn't get past 1 episode because of the horribad music and cheesy voice acting, it wasn't until a couple of days later that I watched the original and fell in love.
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Re: What if the Funimation English Version was the Original?

Post by Lumos » Sat May 10, 2014 9:40 am

theoriginalbilis wrote:The implications of how this would work are paradigm-shifting. In order for the FUNi version to be the "original".... Well, I guess that would mean that Akira Toriyama, Shueisha, and Toei would either have to be based in America, or that FUNimation would've had to have been the primary backer/producer for the animated adaptation, which could never have happened, considering how little money they had back then.

Either way, I'm not sure quite what you're trying to get at. This seems to me like one of those threads where people are trying to find ways to pardon/defend the English versions, or at least rally a bunch of people to sing its praises. Which I don't necessarily hold that against anyone... :D

I guess if the FUNimation adaptation was the original version of the animated series... I would've watched it on Toonami, had fun, and then most likely never pick up the series again. The manga and the Japanese version are the things that made me stick with the franchise since 1998. The English adaptation really doesn't hold up to rewatching IMO.

In terms of how it would affect the series on a global level, I don't think the series would be as popular worldwide either if the dub was the original version. The Japanese version existed since the late 80s, and that was dubbed to other countries shortly thereafter, thus building the show's popularity throughout the world YEARS before it came to the US. If the English version was the original, it would've come into existence in the late 90's, and wouldn't have had as much time to gain a global following.

Speaking of, anyone else in favor of moving all of the "let's defend the dub" topics into one thread for convenience/reducing the redundancy factor? *raises hand*
Told you it would be confusing and strange. Sorry about that :D

This was never intended - on my behalf anyway - to be a dub praising thread. Like I mentioned, one of the main criticisms I see levelled against it is how much the characterization and storytelling was changed. What I was wondering is if anyone could appreciate the dub had that been the definitive version so in other words had it always meant to be like that. Would you still love the series as much as you do? Could you still appreciate the artistry and what was left of the story? The last few paragraphs though are the sort of discussion I was expecting.

In case you were wondering the original scenario was what if you had no choice but to watch the English Dub but I was struggling to think how would that be viable, especially when the Japanese version is now so readily available. I suppose I also just wanted to start a thread on something different.

Hopefully that clears things up a little :)
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Re: What if the Funimation English Version was the Original?

Post by Adamant » Sat May 10, 2014 10:02 am

Here's this dude and oh my god he has a son and that's weird I guess not sure why and he's super strong and can fly for some reason and everyone can also fire laser blasts for no reason and there's this cloud he can ride on and here's a bunch of dudes who don't really do anything and this other dude everyone's mad at because who cares explosions and punching and here's some other dudes who oops never mind they all just died this is tragic for some reason even though you barely even got to learn his name but there's these magic balls that revive people I think and now this green dude I think we saw for two seconds in an earlier episode died because the other green dude died and you know... stuff. There's fighting and explosions here, kids!

No one writes TV series like this. Funi's scriptwriter would've been laughed out of the office for that incoherent mess.
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Re: What if the Funimation English Version was the Original?

Post by TheGmGoken » Sat May 10, 2014 10:09 am

Dragonball would be cancelled or forgotten in OTHER countries. American popularity would be same.

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Re: What if the Funimation English Version was the Original?

Post by xmysticgohanx » Sat May 10, 2014 10:17 am

thomas1up wrote:I tried watching the english funi version first but couldn't get past 1 episode because of the horribad music and cheesy voice acting
Honestly, I wish there was a release with Faulconer music and Japanese sub or Kai dub (preferably Kai dub).
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Re: What if the Funimation English Version was the Original?

Post by TheGmGoken » Sat May 10, 2014 10:20 am

xmysticgohanx wrote:
thomas1up wrote:I tried watching the english funi version first but couldn't get past 1 episode because of the horribad music and cheesy voice acting
Honestly, I wish there was a release with Faulconer music and Japanese sub or Kai dub (preferably Kai dub).
They don't fit together. There is some on YouTube. It sounds awful with any dub but Funi Z

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Re: What if the Funimation English Version was the Original?

Post by Ajay » Sat May 10, 2014 10:29 am

TheGmGoken wrote:It sounds awful with any dub but Funi Z
Unsurprisingly really. Awful and awful go nicely in hand.
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Re: What if the Funimation English Version was the Original?

Post by thomas1up » Sat May 10, 2014 10:34 am

AjayLikesGaming wrote:
TheGmGoken wrote:It sounds awful with any dub but Funi Z
Unsurprisingly really. Awful and awful go nicely in hand.
As much as I hate both I think Faulconer is the greater of two evils, I can at least tolerate original Funi dub with Kikuchi score, but I wouldn't be able to stand the Japanese version with Faulconer, the music just drowns out everything.
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Re: What if the Funimation English Version was the Original?

Post by SingleFringe&Sparks » Sat May 10, 2014 11:22 am

Funimation's is basically the original to most of the casual fans, kai haters and toonami fanboys.
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Re: What if the Funimation English Version was the Original?

Post by UltimateHammerBro » Sat May 10, 2014 12:02 pm

thomas1up wrote:
AjayLikesGaming wrote:
TheGmGoken wrote:It sounds awful with any dub but Funi Z
Unsurprisingly really. Awful and awful go nicely in hand.
As much as I hate both I think Faulconer is the greater of two evils, I can at least tolerate original Funi dub with Kikuchi score, but I wouldn't be able to stand the Japanese version with Faulconer, the music just drowns out everything.
Someone made a few videos taking scenes from the Japanese version with no music, and putting the same Faulconer score the scene had in English, just to try. And it was awful.
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Re: What if the Funimation English Version was the Original?

Post by Fionordequester » Sat May 10, 2014 2:48 pm

UltimateHammerBro wrote:Someone made a few videos taking scenes from the Japanese version with no music, and putting the same Faulconer score the scene had in English, just to try. And it was awful.
Really? I thought it sounded AMAZING! Then again, the only one I watched was with Majin Vegeta sacrificing himself against Majin Buu, but still. When you basically take one of the only two things seriously wrong with the Z dub (the occasionally subpar acting), well...you've got yourself something pretty good!
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Re: What if the Funimation English Version was the Original?

Post by dbboxkaifan » Sat May 10, 2014 3:01 pm

Here's how Trunks would look like if Dragon Ball were a FUNimation production:

Image
UltimateHammerBro wrote:Someone made a few videos taking scenes from the Japanese version with no music, and putting the same Faulconer score the scene had in English, just to try. And it was awful.
I think it was Kei17 but yeah Faulconer music and Japanese audio is an awful combination. It only fits with the FUNimation dub and that's it.
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Re: What if the Funimation English Version was the Original?

Post by Valerius Dover » Sat May 10, 2014 4:41 pm

I think I know what you're fishing for here. You're wondering if people hate the dub just because it changed things rather than hating it on its own. Well, to be honest I don't know. Sure, there will always be purists who detest any dub no matter what, but most of the members on this site have their own reasons for hating the dub. As for me? Well, I don't hate the dub. :D
I see it as a separate thing from the original, one that can be enjoyed enough on its own, if you ignore the fact that it's a dub. That's the kind of mindset I have with any dub, pretty much. Helps me keep a positive mindset.
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Re: What if the Funimation English Version was the Original?

Post by Fionordequester » Sat May 10, 2014 4:49 pm

If I had to hypothesize...people do hate the dub for it's changes, and if it were the original version, they wouldn't have been impressed by the first season, certainly would've liked Season 2, hated Season 3, then liked it again at around the time it got to Seasons 4-5. It'd be that show that was "really awkward to start out with, but got a lot better as it went on". Kind of like Power Rangers, or Star Trek in a way.
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Re: What if the Funimation English Version was the Original?

Post by theoriginalbilis » Sat May 10, 2014 5:41 pm

To be honest, I actually do enjoy certain aspects of FUNimation's dub, but as a faithful representation of the show (as animated/written/produced by Toei), I find serious faults in it.

Even though all I had back in the day was the English dub to go by, my thoughts were still roughly the same back in 1998/1999:

"This show is really cool and the story is interesting, but the music never shuts up! The characters keep talking about superfluous stuff that has nothing to do with the scenes! Why did all of the voices change? Why did they replace the narrator with a monster truck pull announcer?"

But I understand that a huge portion of the fandom hold all those aspects very near and dear to them. There's nothing wrong with that. You can like whatever you want. Just acknowledge that nothing is flawless. Even the Japanese version has major faults.
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Re: What if the Funimation English Version was the Original?

Post by 90sDBZ » Sat May 10, 2014 6:10 pm

I don't get why people are saying it wouldn't have still been an international success. If the show had been created in the 90s that would just mean that all those other countries would get it later too. It would still have been an international success by the early 2000s. Funimation's dub was a hit in countries like the US, the UK, Canada, Australia and even South Africa. I don't see why it or a straight up translation of it wouldn't have been a success all over the world.

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Re: What if the Funimation English Version was the Original?

Post by TheGmGoken » Sat May 10, 2014 6:16 pm

90sDBZ wrote:I don't get why people are saying it wouldn't have still been an international success. If the show had been created in the 90s that would just mean that all those other countries would get it later too. It would still have been an international success by the early 2000s. Funimation's dub was a hit in countries like the US, the UK, Canada, Australia and even South Africa. I don't see why it or a straight up translation of it wouldn't have been a success all over the world.
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