What Does Dragon Ball Have Over The Shonen Of Today?

[thatdbzguy]

This is a question that popped up inside my head recently, and I find it to be incredibly interesting. Despite ending over a decade ago and being blown out of the water by vastly superior shonens like One Piece and FMA, DB still has plenty of fans around the world. Since this is the case, does this mean that Dragon Ball just has something that the shonen of today seem to lack? Did it do something better than them?

[ABED]

DB is more fun than FMA. I tried to watch FMA, but 10 episodes in, I was bored to tears and couldn't figure out the story or the characters at all.

[JEFFMAN219]

DB is more fun than FMA. I tried to watch FMA, but 10 episodes in, I was bored to tears and couldn't figure out the story or the characters at all.

Wow really? FMA is a really good series. Did you watch FMA brotherhood yet?

[VegettoEX]

This is a question that popped up inside my head recently, and I find it to be incredibly interesting. Despite ending over a decade ago and being blown out of the water by vastly superior shonens like One Piece and FMA, DB still has plenty of fans around the world. Since this is the case, does this mean that Dragon Ball just has something that the shonen of today seem to lack? Did it do something better than them?

What about One Piece and/or Fullmetal Alchemist do you think do something better than Dragon Ball?

You've provided some context, but not enough for people to genuinely engage in a discussion with you. This is too open-ended. If you wish to receive responses, you need to provide your own well-thought-out and well-written opinions to get things going.

[ABED]

DB is more fun than FMA. I tried to watch FMA, but 10 episodes in, I was bored to tears and couldn't figure out the story or the characters at all.

Wow really? FMA is a really good series. Did you watch FMA brotherhood yet?

I couldn't get past the first 10 episodes of the first series, I don't see myself delving into another version.

If you enjoy it, that's great, it just wasn't interesting to me. I had trouble following it. For instance, the first episode doesn't start from the beginning of the story.

[Ajay]

Charm and originality of characters. That's what Dragon Ball has.

Yes, Edward and Alphonse are genuinely charming and hilarious together. The plot is far more intricate and complex than anything Dragon Ball will ever be but it doesn't have quite the same presence.

There's nobody as genuinely menacing and captivating as Freeza. There's no excitement that matches the level of the Super Saiyan, no real rivalry to compare with Goku and Vegeta, and no sense of scale that reaches quite the same limits that Dragon Ball hits.

Don't get me wrong, Fullmetal Alchemist is fantastic and one of my favourites but there's a reason it's not the universal hit that Dragon Ball is.

Naruto is a huge hit and comparable to Dragon Ball. People love when there's a goal to reach for characters. It's why people love RPGs, they always want to level-up and feel like they're seeing a real progression of something they're invested in. Naruto tapping into the chakra of the Nine-Tails on the bridge was a fantastic moment. It was fierce and showed a new side to the character much in the same way that we see Goku change as he becomes Super Saiyan on Namek.

You have the rivalry between Naruto and Sasuke that builds up over a great deal of time. There's a fierce competition constantly underlining each episode and that's the type of thing that gets people excited.

Yes, they're tropes of the shonen fighting genre but they're incredibly successful and it's those types of things that push the popularity of shows. Viewers are constantly reminded that their characters will never peak. It's generic but damn, it's exciting.

[thatdbzguy]

What about One Piece and/or Fullmetal Alchemist do you think do something better than Dragon Ball?

You've provided some context, but not enough for people to genuinely engage in a discussion with you. This is too open-ended. If you wish to receive responses, you need to provide your own well-thought-out and well-written opinions to get things going.

The main point of this thread isn't to discuss whether or not DB is overall better than FMA or One Piece, though, just if it has something that they or other modern shonen don't have. So why bother going into detail about it?

[VegettoEX]

The main point of this thread isn't to discuss whether or not DB is better than FMA or One Piece, though, so why bother going into detail about it?

If you're looking for others' opinions, toss out some of your own. If you're going to provide two specific examples, explain why you're tossing out two specific examples.

[B]

Not to detract from the series' merits, but I think a good handful of it has to do with DB reaching North America at a much later date, which in turn was semi-responsible for the 2000s revival in Japan. So even though the series is over, it's been in the consciousness of fans for a long time and still continues to.

Clearly, there's some reason it has staying power. Maybe it's because the series isn't necessarily rooted in too much of Japanese culture. It's a completely fictional world with a lot of English-puns, and a handful of English SFX. Son Goku is an incredibly likeable protagonist. It's easy to follow.

And to completely play devil's advocate, your opening post seems to imply that because One Piece and Fullmetal Alchemist exist, it doesn't make any sense that Dragon Ball still has fans, now that something "better" has come along. It's completely in the realm of possibility that people enjoy all three, or just two, or only one, or none of them!

Perhaps the more appropriate question is "What Does Dragon Ball Have Over The Shonen of Yesterday?", considering it's merchandise output has basically never slowed down.

[thatdbzguy]

The main point of this thread isn't to discuss whether or not DB is better than FMA or One Piece, though, so why bother going into detail about it?

If you're looking for others' opinions, toss out some of your own. If you're going to provide two specific examples, explain why you're tossing out two specific examples.

Because One Piece and FMA are series that few will disagree with them being better than DB as opposed to me picking either Naruto or Bleach.

[ABED]

I think DB's appeal is its charming characters, its humor, simple stories, it's not quite as rooted in Japan as other series, and it has fighting, which translates everywhere. People can understand fighting regardless of culture.

[VegettoEX]

Because One Piece and FMA are series that few will disagree with them being better than DB as opposed to me picking either Naruto or Bleach.

I disagree with you heavily in both cases, but I don't know what exactly to disagree with you on because you haven't provided any context for me to genuinely engage in a discussion with you about anything.

[Wibbs]

I think DB's appeal is its charming characters, its humor, simple stories, it's not quite as rooted in Japan as other series, and it has fighting, which translates everywhere. People can understand fighting regardless of culture.

I think One Piece tried to recapture what DragonBall had in regards to the fighting, only problem I have with it is that most of Luffy's fights are just seeing how many different ways he can punch people.

[Freeza Soldier #156]

I think DB's appeal is its charming characters, its humor, simple stories, it's not quite as rooted in Japan as other series, and it has fighting, which translates everywhere. People can understand fighting regardless of culture.

Completely agree. I also want to add that not only does fighting translate everywhere, but the fight scenes in DB, hell, all of the artwork in general, are done so well. I honestly do not like One Piece at all. I have plenty of issues with it, but one of my biggest dislikes is the artwork; to me it's godawful ugly. There isn't one character that I have seen in that series that I enjoy looking at. In my opinion, the fight scenes in One Piece are also extremely poor. Half the time when I would be trying to read a fight panel I couldn't tell what the hell was going on. If there is one thing Toriyama can do well, it is fight panels. They were always simple, clean, and easy to follow.

Because One Piece and FMA are series that few will disagree with them being better than DB

I completely disagree with this. I love FMA, but I still prefer DB and as I stated above, I despise One Piece.

[KentalSSJ6]

DB is more fun than FMA. I tried to watch FMA, but 10 episodes in, I was bored to tears and couldn't figure out the story or the characters at all.

Wow really? FMA is a really good series. Did you watch FMA brotherhood yet?

I couldn't get past the first 10 episodes of the first series, I don't see myself delving into another version.

If you enjoy it, that's great, it just wasn't interesting to me. I had trouble following it. For instance, the first episode doesn't start from the beginning of the story.

The 03 series and Brotherhood are world's apart. Brotherhood is pound for pound identical to the manga while the O3 series had little to nothing to do with the manga.

Id say give Brotherhood a shot.

[ABED]

I think DB's appeal is its charming characters, its humor, simple stories, it's not quite as rooted in Japan as other series, and it has fighting, which translates everywhere. People can understand fighting regardless of culture.

Completely agree. I also want to add that not only does fighting translate everywhere, but the fight scenes in DB, hell, all of the artwork in general, are done so well. I honestly do not like One Piece at all. I have plenty of issues with it, but one of my biggest dislikes is the artwork; to me it's godawful ugly. There isn't one character that I have seen in that series that I enjoy looking at. In my opinion, the fight scenes in One Piece are also extremely poor. Half the time when I would be trying to read a fight panel I couldn't tell what the hell was going on. If there is one thing Toriyama can do well, it is fight panels. They were always simple, clean, and easy to follow.

I would also like to add that Toriyama's art style is simple, but great. By simple, I mean that he doesn't add a lot of extraneous detail, so the audience can see what's going on. Some artists are crazy talented, but I have a hard time discerning what's going on in their drawings because of the sheer amount of detail. Lee Bermejo is an amazing artist, but he has a lot of detail and it can be hard to tell what's going on.

[AgitoZ]

I would also like to add that Toriyama's art style is simple, but great. By simple, I mean that he doesn't add a lot of extraneous detail, so the audience can see what's going on. Some artists are crazy talented, but I have a hard time discerning what's going on in their drawings because of the sheer amount of detail. Lee Bermejo is an amazing artist, but he has a lot of detail and it can be hard to tell what's going on.

One thing Dragon Ball has always had over something like One Piece was its choreography and direction when it came to fighting segments. It's all easy to follow. I like to think comes from Toriyama's enjoyment of kung fu movies, particularly Jackie Chan's movies. While someone like Oda, who has more cinematic and busy panels/layout, make it much more difficult to follow.

[B]

I guess will throw it out there that in contrast to Dragon Ball, or even most shonen, Naruto's fights are incredibly messy, over-detailed, and hard to follow. It's something that the anime, if you've ever taken the time to see how Pierrot's animators/sakuga handle them, vastly improves on. One Piece sort of treads in that area, but it's nowhere near as bad.

[thatdbzguy]

I guess will throw it out there that in contrast to Dragon Ball, or even most shonen, Naruto's fights are incredibly messy, over-detailed, and hard to follow. It's something that the anime, if you've ever taken the time to see how Pierrot's animators/sakuga handle them, vastly improves on. One Piece sort of treads in that area, but it's nowhere near as bad.

Yeah, but DB's fights (at least in part 2) suffer from having no variety.

[Freeza Soldier #156]

Yeah, but DB's fights (at least in part 2) suffer from having no variety.

Even if I agreed, I would rather have a bit less variety and still be able to tell what's going on.