Why do the Z-fighters never use King Kai's techniques?

[DragonBallFan8001]

During the Namek Arc and at the end of the Namek Arc, Tenshinhan, Yamcha and Chaozu all trained at King Kai's planet for months. However, they never use the Kaioken or Genki Dama. I think this is odd, considering Tenshinhan and Chaozu were at King Kai's planet for twice as long as Goku was there, and they arrived there with higher power levels. If Tenshinhan knew the Kaioken, he could've stayed relevant during the Cell Arc, especially if he also asked Bulma's father to create a room with increased gravity for him. If Tenshinhan used a Kaioken times 20, and combined the increased ki with his life force for his Kikoho, he might've even been able to severely injure Semi-Perfect Cell!

I can't think of any in-universe reasons why they wouldn't use any of King Kai's techniques.

[DarkPrince_92]

Honestly... it only looked like they improved themselves as far as strength and speed... and fucked around the rest of the time. Don't think they got much stronger either. That Ginyu Force filler was BS to me, don't think Yamcha alone could take on Recoome, which took Vegeta and two others to do minuscule damage. Also, how many months was it? A little longer than Goku stayed right?

Moral of the story is, the human fighters that aren't Krillin of the Z Warriors aren't important after the Saiyan Arc. I still love Tenshinhan but... he sucks... Yamcha sucks... Waste of spac... I mean Chouzu also sucks.

[Kaboom]

The way I figure it, it's because when Goku trained under Kaio, he was under a time constraint and had a specific goal in his training: Become able to fight and hopefully defeat the Saiyans en route to Earth. So in addition to general training to increase his power, he also learned the Kaio-Ken and the Spirit Bomb, both of which were intended as desperation moves, in case the strength he gained wasn't enough. Which it wasn't — against Vegeta, anyway.

That's not the case for the humans, though. They're just there to train and get stronger because they heard that's what Goku did. They aren't racing against a time limit to get strong enough to save the Earth. There's no NEED for them to learn the fancy and risky techniques Goku did.

Plus, not to mention that learning the Kaio-Ken is apparently difficult enough that even Kaio himself never mastered it. Goku's probably got "prodigy main character" exclusive rights to that one.

[DragonBallFan8001]

Honestly... it only looked like they improved themselves as far as strength and speed... and fucked around the rest of the time. Don't think they got much stronger either. That Ginyu Force filler was BS to me, don't think Yamcha alone could take on Recoome, which took Vegeta and two others to do minuscule damage. Also, how many months was it? A little longer than Goku stayed right?

Yamcha stayed on King Kai's planet for one day less than Goku (a Namekian year (152 days, if I remember correctly) + approximately 5 days before Goku arrived on Namek, since they arrived on King Kai's planet about a day after Goku left Earth.) and Tenshinhan and Chaozu stayed on King Kai's planet for two Namekian years (304 days) + 5 days. That's more than 10 months.

The Ginyu Force versus Yamcha, Tenshinhan and Chaozu filler definitely doesn't make any sense, since they've only been on King Kai's planet for 5 days at that point in time. However, I do think that after the 10 months of training, Tenshinhan surpassed the Ginyu Force, except for Captain Ginyu.

The way I figure it, it's because when Goku trained under Kaio, he was under a time constraint and had a specific goal in his training: Become able to fight and hopefully defeat the Saiyans en route to Earth. So in addition to general training to increase his power, he also learned the Kaio-Ken and the Spirit Bomb, both of which were intended as desperation moves, in case the strength he gained wasn't enough. Which it wasn't — against Vegeta, anyway.

That's not the case for the humans, though. They're just there to train and get stronger because they heard that's what Goku did. They aren't racing against a time limit to get strong enough to save the Earth. There's no NEED for them to learn the fancy and risky techniques Goku did.

Plus, not to mention that learning the Kaio-Ken is apparently difficult enough that even Kaio himself never mastered it. Goku's probably got "prodigy main character" exclusive rights to that one.

Tenshinhan always seemed very focused on surpassing Goku, and doing the same training Goku did, only better, so I think he would definitely have the will to try and master the Kaioken, especially after learning what Goku was able to do with the Kaioken when fighting Freeza.

King Kai probably couldn't learn the Kaioken because he wasn't strong enough. However, Yamcha and Tenshinhan definitely managed to surpass King Kai by quite a lot, in the time they trained at his planet, and they also surpassed Saiyan Arc Goku, so they should be able to master the Kaioken.

[Blade]

As far as in-Universe explanations go, I assume that either they were unable to master the Kaioken and Genki Dama, or merely that they were able to master them but never received a subsequent moment in the rest of the story where the use of the techniques would be suitable or relevant.

As far as outer-Universe explanations go, I assume that Toriyama either forgot about their training with Kaio, or in the case of Kaioken, forgot about the technique altogether after Goku turned Super Saiyan against Freeza and that transformation took precedent in the story above any other protagonist technique.

[Pantalones]

I'm guessing it's mostly (if not entirely) an issue of them not getting much screen-time later on. I mean, even if Yamcha learned Kaio-ken, when would he use it?? He got surprised by Dr. Gero and nearly killed before he had a chance to even do anything, and he's never really shown fighting after that point (and even if he was using Kaio-ken x20--or heck, even if he improved upon Goku and pulled off a Kaio-ken x50 or Kaio-ken x100--he'd be no match for the Cell Jr. he fought... and that's even if you give the humans sane power levels rather than this arbitrary "nobody ever passed Ginyu/1st-form Freeza" nonsense that some people here seem to go by.)

Tenshinhan's the same way. The handful of times he's shown fighting, he's usually up against an opponent too overwhelming and gets knocked out too quick to do much of anything (#17, Cell Jr., Super Buu)... the only exception was holding off 2nd-form Cell, and I wonder if maybe the Shin Kikoho's improvement over the ordinary Kikoho (couldn't even kill Nappa, drained to death Tenshinhan in the process) was developed through studying Kaio-ken and fiddling with the Kikoho's life-draining aspect so that it's more ordinary "wear on the body" like Kaio-ken (and also has amplified power, like Kaio-ken's effect) rather than making you drop dead if you happen to have lost an arm before using it.

And Chiaotzu... he's never shown fighting again in the series! So he could've mastered Kaio-ken and invented his own new super-moves and everything, but we'd never know because all he does after coming back to life is float around near Tenshinhan and look weird. XD

[Darkprince410]

Tenshinhan's the same way. The handful of times he's shown fighting, he's usually up against an opponent too overwhelming and gets knocked out too quick to do much of anything (#17, Cell Jr., Super Buu)... the only exception was holding off 2nd-form Cell, and I wonder if maybe the Shin Kikoho's improvement over the ordinary Kikoho (couldn't even kill Nappa, drained to death Tenshinhan in the process) was developed through studying Kaio-ken and fiddling with the Kikoho's life-draining aspect so that it's more ordinary "wear on the body" like Kaio-ken (and also has amplified power, like Kaio-ken's effect) rather than making you drop dead if you happen to have lost an arm before using it.

Unless I'm remembering it incorrectly, Tenshinhan does mention that he doesn't believe that he'd be able to achieve the same results Goku did using the training that Goku did on Kaiou's planet, but felt that he'd get results if he incorporated Kaiou's training into his own training methods. I always took this as a possibility that he might have incorporated the Kaiou-ken into his own style of fighting, ultimately resulting in the Shin Ki Kou Hou

[DragonBallFan8001]

Tenshinhan's the same way. The handful of times he's shown fighting, he's usually up against an opponent too overwhelming and gets knocked out too quick to do much of anything (#17, Cell Jr., Super Buu)... the only exception was holding off 2nd-form Cell, and I wonder if maybe the Shin Kikoho's improvement over the ordinary Kikoho (couldn't even kill Nappa, drained to death Tenshinhan in the process) was developed through studying Kaio-ken and fiddling with the Kikoho's life-draining aspect so that it's more ordinary "wear on the body" like Kaio-ken (and also has amplified power, like Kaio-ken's effect) rather than making you drop dead if you happen to have lost an arm before using it.

Unless I'm remembering it incorrectly, Tenshinhan does mention that he doesn't believe that he'd be able to achieve the same results Goku did using the training that Goku did on Kaiou's planet, but felt that he'd get results if he incorporated Kaiou's training into his own training methods. I always took this as a possibility that he might have incorporated the Kaiou-ken into his own style of fighting, ultimately resulting in the Shin Ki Kou Hou

Tenshinhan did say something like that. I wouldn't be surprised if he was able to use the Kaioken in such a way that he'd hardly get any strain on his body while fighting regularly (why he might not have the visible effects of the Kaioken while fighting), and that he'd be able to make his Shin Kikoho so powerful.

[Jackal puFF]

This would be a good question for Toriyama to answer. They really didn't have a chance to do those moves kind of. Tien could have done the kaioken maybe with Cell but that would have probably killed Tien.. Could you imagine though if all of them tried using the genki dama on Cell? I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't even know the moves.

[KameRule]

Well, I think Toriyama said that King Kai knew Instantaneous Transmission when Goku first met him, but didn't teach him because he "didn't ask". So... the Z Fighters didn't ask him? That's the only In-Universe Explanation I can think of, tbh.

[Kamiccolo9]

Well, I think Toriyama said that King Kai knew Instantaneous Transmission when Goku first met him, but didn't teach him because he "didn't ask". So... the Z Fighters didn't ask him? That's the only In-Universe Explanation I can think of, tbh.

That's only in the anime, and I believe only in the Funimation dub. Toriyama has never said anything of that sort that I'm aware of.

[Darkprince410]

Well, I think Toriyama said that King Kai knew Instantaneous Transmission when Goku first met him, but didn't teach him because he "didn't ask". So... the Z Fighters didn't ask him? That's the only In-Universe Explanation I can think of, tbh.

Yeah, as said, that wasn't in the original manga. In the original manga, North Kaiou comments on being aware of what the technique is and the planet that Goku must have learned it on, but doesn't say or suggest that he knew how to perform the technique, nor would have been able to teach it to Goku.

[trick007z]

Well, I think Toriyama said that King Kai knew Instantaneous Transmission when Goku first met him, but didn't teach him because he "didn't ask". So... the Z Fighters didn't ask him? That's the only In-Universe Explanation I can think of, tbh.

That would also be extremely ridiculous considering Goku flat out asking King Kai if he could just zap him to Earth so he could get back to Earth before ALL HIS FRIENDS DIED.

[KameRule]

Well, I think Toriyama said that King Kai knew Instantaneous Transmission when Goku first met him, but didn't teach him because he "didn't ask". So... the Z Fighters didn't ask him? That's the only In-Universe Explanation I can think of, tbh.

That's only in the anime, and I believe only in the Funimation dub. Toriyama has never said anything of that sort that I'm aware of.

Meh, fair enough. I don't remember hearing the line at all in the show, so I guess that my info was a bit off.

Well, in that case here's my theory. I'd say that it's not that King Kai wasn't able to teach them the techniques, but rather that the Z Fighters didn't want to. Piccolo left for Namek too soon to do crap, and as for the others, well I'm pretty sure that they realised the enemies on Namek (and unbeknown to them, enemies in the future) were way too strong for them, and that learning the Kaioken was useless as whatever increase it could do to their bodies without outright killing them would be no good. Yamucha, Tenshinhan and (obviously) Chaozu were probably too weak to go above Kaioken x2 (maybe 3), and wouldn't survive for long enough to form a big enough Genki.
Well, idk, maybe they could take turns or something...

[CordonBloo]

I'm pretty sure Kaio-Sama mentioned that Goku was the only one who ever managed to master the Kaio-Ken technique and the Genki Dama. Kaio-Sama likely never taught them either because they did not have enough time, there was no need, or that they simply weren't good enough. I can imagine Tenshinhan would make good use of those skills or maybe even Piccolo, but alas. I don't think learning those skills are mandatory for a training regimen with the lord of worlds, and he probably has other techniques that he didn't have time to teach Goku or that were not appropriate.

[Kamiccolo9]

I just go with the "they weren't good enough to learn them" theory. Goku was a prodigy, but the others were, relatively speaking, nothing special.

I'd like to think that Piccolo would be capable of learning them, but he was only there for, what, a week?

[Rocketman]

Only the greatest of warriors can use the Kaioken.

[DragonBallFan8001]

I don't think that Tenshinhan and Yamcha were too weak to learn the Kaioken. Yamcha got to King Kai's planet with a power level of 1,440, if I'm not mistaken, and he stayed there almost just as long as Goku did, so he most likely left with a power level that's higher than 8,000, most likely allowing him (depending on his ability to control his own energy), to use a Kaioken times 4.

Tenshinhan stayed almost twice as long, so he would probably have left with a power level of approximately 72,000, if he got stronger at the same rate as Goku did, while training on King Kai's planet. Considering Tenshinhan is very good at controlling his own energy (he can use techniques like the Kikoho and the Mafuba, after all), I think Tenshinhan would definitely be able to use a Kaioken times 10.
In case he was really able to use the Kaioken without putting any strain on his body, somehow, his power level could be 720,000. Maybe Tenshinhan didn't learn the Genki Dama, because he wanted to perfect his ability to use the power of Kaioken continuously.

[KameRule]

I don't think that Tenshinhan and Yamcha were too weak to learn the Kaioken. Yamcha got to King Kai's planet with a power level of 1,440, if I'm not mistaken, and he stayed there almost just as long as Goku did, so he most likely left with a power level that's higher than 8,000, most likely allowing him (depending on his ability to control his own energy), to use a Kaioken times 4.

Tenshinhan stayed almost twice as long, so he would probably have left with a power level of approximately 72,000, if he got stronger at the same rate as Goku did, while training on King Kai's planet. Considering Tenshinhan is very good at controlling his own energy (he can use techniques like the Kikoho and the Mafuba, after all), I think Tenshinhan would definitely be able to use a Kaioken times 10.
In case he was really able to use the Kaioken without putting any strain on his body, somehow, his power level could be 720,000. Maybe Tenshinhan didn't learn the Genki Dama, because he wanted to perfect his ability to use the power of Kaioken continuously.

Even so, they were very weak compared to the current villains, so much so that even if they had perfected the techniques, they would be useless anyway. Would a Kaio Ken x20 Tenshinhan done any good against Androids #19/20? No, of course it wouldn't. And like I said previously, the Genki would be worthless as none of the Z Fighters that went to North Kai's planet would have been able to last long enough to throw the thing.

[Darkprince410]

I don't think that Tenshinhan and Yamcha were too weak to learn the Kaioken. Yamcha got to King Kai's planet with a power level of 1,440, if I'm not mistaken, and he stayed there almost just as long as Goku did, so he most likely left with a power level that's higher than 8,000, most likely allowing him (depending on his ability to control his own energy), to use a Kaioken times 4.

Tenshinhan stayed almost twice as long, so he would probably have left with a power level of approximately 72,000, if he got stronger at the same rate as Goku did, while training on King Kai's planet. Considering Tenshinhan is very good at controlling his own energy (he can use techniques like the Kikoho and the Mafuba, after all), I think Tenshinhan would definitely be able to use a Kaioken times 10.
In case he was really able to use the Kaioken without putting any strain on his body, somehow, his power level could be 720,000. Maybe Tenshinhan didn't learn the Genki Dama, because he wanted to perfect his ability to use the power of Kaioken continuously.

Even so, they were very weak compared to the current villains, so much so that even if they had perfected the techniques, they would be useless anyway. Would a Kaio Ken x20 Tenshinhan done any good against Androids #19/20? No, of course it wouldn't. And like I said previously, the Genki would be worthless as none of the Z Fighters that went to North Kai's planet would have been able to last long enough to throw the thing.

If anything, they'd be better suited for a Genki Dama than Goku would. Goku could be there at the frontlines, drawing fire away from whoever is preparing the Genki Dama, so that whoever the target is won't even notice until it's too late. When it came to Goku, there usually wasn't anyone around of equal footing to the enemy to be able to hold them off long enough for him to charge it. When using it against Freeza, he had Piccolo, Gohan, and Kuririn for all of one attack a piece, and against Buu, he had Ssj2 Vegeta and Mr. Buu, neither able to put up any lasting fight against him (Mr. Buu survived as long as he did just because he was a Buu). However, if it were Goku actually buying time, then things would likely be better.