Replacement Score Existence

[Valerius Dover]

Ok, I apologize if this has been spoken of too recently, but I've been pondering this for a while now.

Why did Funimation replace the music in such a large portion of the DB Franchise? What thoughts could lead them to even consider this as a practice? I've attempted to dig up reasons everywhere with other anime, too, but I simply cannot pinpoint when this practice started or why it's even considered. Theme Songs, I can understand, but why replace perfectly normal instrumental music.

PLEASE NOTE:
I am not bashing the existing replacement scores, as I am quite happy with the ones we've gotten. This is not a hate thread by any means. I am merely curious as to why this thought even occurred back in the infant days of Funimation 20 years ago.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

Because it sounded dated. Scott Morgan, who worked on the replacement score, compared the original score to a 50s horror movie, and, looking into that myself, I can say it does, especially the horns. FUNimation wanted a newer sounding score because they wanted DBZ to be a success.


Now, whether or not it would have been a success in the US regardless is conjecture, but the comparable popularity of DBZ with the original score in other countries would suggest that it would have. But they nevertheless wanted to the score to contain sounds that would appeal more to twelve-year-olds. They didn't want to take any chances.

[theoriginalbilis]

Actually, the main reason the powers that be at FUNimation replaced the original score was because it since their big property (DBZ) aired on network TV, they could charge royalties for every second of FUNimation-owned music that played.

[Valerius Dover]

Both are good reasons, I suppose. The former makes sense because the music in Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z does sound dated. Also, Dragon Ball GT to a lesser extent. I'm pretty sure these were intentional, though. The latter reason would explain why there's music playing almost constantly, and also would seem to apply to other anime.

I wonder why Toei would allow this, though. And also why they didn't replace the score for Dragon Ball the 2nd time around. And what about all those other anime series out there that don't have dated scores? Are they separate cases from this?

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

Actually, the main reason the powers that be at FUNimation replaced the original score was because it since their big property (DBZ) aired on network TV, they could charge royalties for every second of FUNimation-owned music that played.

I've heard people say this, and while it makes sense (though ballpark figures of how much this all would've amounted to would make it more convincing), I disagree, and think that FUNimation's main goal was to modernize the show and make it as marketable as possible to a young audience. The decision to have the replacement score run continuously throughout the show and the creative authority FUNimation had regarding how the score sounded (see morganstudio's posts) would seem to support this: they genuinely cared about the music and didn't just want to reuse some old Megaman tracks.


Of course, this is all speculation as we have no way of knowing what they were thinking unless we get confirmation from them, and while it's probably a combination of the two reasons, I disagree on which was more important to those in charge.

[dbboxkaifan]

FUNimation back then was a small company and so if they could use some other cheap ass score instead then that'd be ideal for them as otherwise paying for the real soundtrack which would've perhaps rose the price of it too.

Because it sounded dated.

Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z and Dragon Ball GT are all outdated and adding techno/modern music won't do much for it unless it's properly remastered.

Q-TEC did an excellent job making Kai look new and with the Yamamoto score it definitely felt cinematic and modernised but FUNimation's attempt was just appalling.

[VegettoEX]

Of course, this is all speculation as we have no way of knowing what they were thinking unless we get confirmation from them, and while it's probably a combination of the two reasons, I disagree on which was more important to those in charge.

It's not speculation. It's an actual interview with (I think it was Gen Fukunaga?) that put it all right out on the table: they could charge royalties for their own music being heard. As a small-ass company at the time, that made sense. All the talk about the "sound" of the score was incidental and just backward-explanations.

Of course, I can't actually remember which interview it was. It was definitely hosted on DBZ Uncensored, but it might have been an older one archived from Steve Harmon.

[Valerius Dover]

So, isn't it kind of rude to do this to Toei? Wouldn't they want to charge royalties? I wonder why they allowed this.

[Doctor.]

So, isn't it kind of rude to do this to Toei? Wouldn't they want to charge royalties? I wonder why they allowed this.

I'm sure they didn't change the score free of charge.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

It's not speculation. It's an actual interview with (I think it was Gen Fukunaga?) that put it all right out on the table: they could charge royalties for their own music being heard. As a small-ass company at the time, that made sense. All the talk about the "sound" of the score was incidental and just backward-explanations.

Of course, I can't actually remember which interview it was. It was definitely hosted on DBZ Uncensored, but it might have been an older one archived from Steve Harmon.

Can you post a link?

[theoriginalbilis]

http://www.animecauldron.com/dbzuncenso ... nisez.html

While not the original interview, this piece from "DBZ Uncensored 2" does reference and cite the Gen Fukunaga interviews several times, and compiles comments made from FUNimation employes throughout the late 90's through the mid-2000's.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

http://www.animecauldron.com/dbzuncenso ... nisez.html

While not the original interview, this piece from "DBZ Uncensored 2" does reference and cite the Gen Fukunaga interviews several times, and compiles comments made from FUNimation employes throughout the late 90's through the mid-2000's.

The link in the citations isn't working. However, I will give it the benefit of the doubt because it does cite an actual magazine interview, but I still would like confirmation as anyone could've written they found it in a magazine.

[Gonstead]

I wonder why Toei would allow this, though.

Once Funimation had licensed the series, they could do pretty much anything they wanted with it.

And also why they didn't replace the score for Dragon Ball the 2nd time around.

By the time Funimation began dubbing the Dragon Ball anime, replacement scores were fading as an industry practice. Only a few companies such as Saban and 4Kids still did (and still do: Yu-Gi-Oh Zexal as an example)

And what about all those other anime series out there that don't have dated scores? Are they separate cases from this?

That depends on how you define "dated" and specifically what anime you are talking about.

[dbboxkaifan]

Sumitomo's Kai score at times sounds very dated but there's no way that FUNimation's going to use replacement music for it as they're done with it.

[Valerius Dover]

As far as I'm aware, Funi has only done replacement scores for DBZ and DBGT. That would mean they haven't done this since they finished the Z Movies in 2006. The "other anime" I was referring to are the ones that came across the paths of 4Kids or a similar group, like the one in this thread.
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... =7&t=28047

Now, I'm not familiar with the above series, but I can't imagine the original being any more dated than the 20 year-old recycled tracks used in their place. I had a theory that there might be a cost involved with Japanese scores, but I don't know if this is valid. I'm still trying to find out when and why this became a common practice in anime.

[Chibi Gohan]

As far as I'm aware, Funi has only done replacement scores for DBZ and DBGT. That would mean they haven't done this since they finished the Z Movies in 2006. The "other anime" I was referring to are the ones that came across the paths of 4Kids or a similar group, like the one in this thread.
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... =7&t=28047

It's quite a shame that Funi did replacement score for GT back then... Especially when they used the original score for Dragon Ball.

[theoriginalbilis]

It's quite a shame that Funi did replacement score for GT back then... Especially when they used the original score for Dragon Ball.

I always felt like that decision to heavily alter GT compared to original DB was like "Three steps forward, two steps back." Yeah, they were getting better at adaptation and faithfulness, but the decision to rescore/recut GT always felt like they were so afraid of the brand not being successful, and had to cater it more to the style of "ROCKIN' HARDCORE DEE-BEE-ZEEEEEE!" they developed over the years. I mean, DB was a popular title for them, not nearly as popular as Z, but it did pretty good for them (ratings and home video sales-wise.)

[Thanos]

I always felt like that decision to heavily alter GT compared to original DB was like "Three steps forward, two steps back." Yeah, they were getting better at adaptation and faithfulness, but the decision to rescore/recut GT always felt like they were so afraid of the brand not being successful, and had to cater it more to the style of "ROCKIN' HARDCORE DEE-BEE-ZEEEEEE!" they developed over the years. I mean, DB was a popular title for them, not nearly as popular as Z, but it did pretty good for them (ratings and home video sales-wise.)

I know! I remember being 13 and being outraged by this... I can't imagine what audience would accept these changes. And it's kind of funny looking back though, they actually went the direction of rap with GT. I mean, seriously. If you're going to try to make something your own and update it, at least avoid using such dated (even for 2003) methods.