Goten and Trunks power discussion?

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

How strong do you think they are? There never seems to be a general consensus when it comes to their power, it usually ranges from rivaling Teen Gohan to below Namek Goku... I personally go with the former, but what's your personal opinion?

I think this indicates Kids > Piccolo (who I believe surpassed 50% MSSJ Goku):

Spoiler:

[Lord Beerus]

I view Goten and Trunks power as greater than that of Perfect Cell, MSSJ Goku and Gohan, SSJ Vegeta and Kamiccolo but below Dabra, SSJ2 Teen Gohan, Super Perfect and all the Ascended and Ultra SSJ's.

[ZazamPow]

If Yo! is taken into consideration, Freeza-level characters are nothing to them.

[TJVY]

I think that they're on the same level that Goku and Gohan were as MSSJ during the Cell Games, I'm not sure how much strong Piccolo became during the 7 year gap but I wouldn't put them as strong as him.

[ZazamPow]

I admit, if they really were stronger than even Perfect Cell, it would make a lot more sense how they can challenge Majin Buu through fusion.

[dbzfan7]

At least around Cell games Goku and at lowest Cell Games Vegeta.

[sintzu]

Not counting Ssj I'd say a little stronger then Namek Gohan before training in the ROSAT.

[Hugo Boss]

I think this indicates Kids > Piccolo (who I believe surpassed 50% MSSJ Goku)

A possibility yes, but not an indication. Imperfect Cell could push Piccolo back, but was still weaker than him. Also I don't think Boo Arc Piccolo is indicated to be any different from when he fought Cell Jrs., though you could say he was already stronger than 50% Goku back then, which I disagree.

[Dayspring]

They almost accidentally killed #18 at the tournament. That would imply they're a lot, lot stronger than Namek-saga Goku, not beneath him.

Remember that unlike everyone else, Goten and Trunks have been Super Saiyans for longer than they can remember and spar with each other very often. That made for some insanely powerful gains. At the start of their formal training, Trunks is strong enough to force Vegeta to fight seriously and Goten is strong enough to seriously injure Teen Gohan if the latter isn't careful. By the time of the image in the OP, they've long surpassed the androids.

I'd wager they're on par with Trunks and Vegeta from the Cell Games.

[mAcChaos]

They almost accidentally killed #18 at the tournament. That would imply they're a lot, lot stronger than Namek-saga Goku, not beneath him.

Remember that unlike everyone else, Goten and Trunks have been Super Saiyans for longer than they can remember and spar with each other very often. That made for some insanely powerful gains. At the start of their formal training, Trunks is strong enough to force Vegeta to fight seriously and Goten is strong enough to seriously injure Teen Gohan if the latter isn't careful. By the time of the image in the OP, they've long surpassed the androids.

I'd wager they're on par with Trunks and Vegeta from the Cell Games.

Vegeta didn't fight seriously. He just got annoyed and put too much power into his punch one time.

Gohan was just surprised by how strong Goten was for his age. That isn't saying he's strong enough to seriously hurt Gohan.

18 was surprised too. Doesn't mean she was in real danger.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Vegeta didn't fight seriously. He just got annoyed and put too much power into his punch one time.

It was a reflex punch. And Trunks barely got hurt. Says a lot. And why wouldn't he be serious? He wanted to test how good Trunks was.

Gohan was just surprised by how strong Goten was for his age. That isn't saying he's strong enough to seriously hurt Gohan.

yeah Gohan looks very surprised here:

Spoiler:

And how does being surprised makes you struggle to block someone way weaker than you?

18 was surprised too. Doesn't mean she was in real danger.

She said it was dangerous so how is she in no real danger??

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Piccolo thinks the kids are the only hope for earth well before fusion is even mentioned.

There's also Gohan believing the kids will surpass him soon if he doesn't get back on his training.

With that, I think the kids are stronger than Cell Games Vegeta, but weaker than Full-Power Super Saiyan Goku. Not by a lot, though.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

A possibility yes, but not an indication. Imperfect Cell could push Piccolo back, but was still weaker than him. Also I don't think Boo Arc Piccolo is indicated to be any different from when he fought Cell Jrs., though you could say he was already stronger than 50% Goku back then, which I disagree.

Just look at Piccolo's face!

It's not like he's like "so powerful for their age", he's literally speechless, visibly shaken, gawking like an idiot. Says a lot imo.

[Hugo Boss]

Vegeta had the same face when Goku powered-up to his old "over 8,000" self. This is just what you said, but not exactly an indication that their power must be greater than Piccolo's.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

They are similar, but if you look at his face, it more resembles when Goku does his 100% power up at the Cell Games. And also, the last time Vegeta read Goku's BP, it was like 416, and now it randomly jumps to > 8,000. Piccolo already had saw/sensed them at the tournament, and he's still blown away/speechless.

Piccolo also says they're the only hope before fusion.

I also don't see Piccolo making MSSJ Gohan sweat and forcing him into the air.

Nothing really supports Piccolo > SSJ Kids imo.

[Hitiro]

Vegeta didn't fight seriously. He just got annoyed and put too much power into his punch one time.

Gohan was just surprised by how strong Goten was for his age. That isn't saying he's strong enough to seriously hurt Gohan.

18 was surprised too. Doesn't mean she was in real danger.

I can understand the first two points. But do you really think that they weren't above #18 as SSJ's? I can understand them being 2 or maybe 4 times weaker than their parents and Gohan but definitely not weaker than #18. Though honestly I feel that if they were 2x or 4x weaker than the adult Saiyan's they wouldn't be surprised at all by the attacks.

Imperfect Cell was above both #18 and #17 in power. He then got at least twice as strong, by transforming, to destroy #16 like he did. Super Vegeta should at least be twice as strong as Semi-Perfect Cell. And then Perfect Cell should be at least twice as strong as Super Vegeta to destroy him as well. Vegeta and Goku later surpass Gohan's original strength by at least a small margin. So they should be able to fight Perfect Cell pretty well as SSJ Gohan, while being unmotivated, managed to knock Perfect Cell on it's ass while he was going all out in speed(His words). I'm honestly not sure how strong Cell was but I think 4 stronger than Super Vegeta is a fair minimum estimation.

#17: 1
#18: 1
#16: 2
Imperfect Cell: 2
Semi-Perfect Cell: 4
Super Vegeta: 8
Piccolo(Post-RoSaT): 9
SSJ Vegeta(Cell Games): 10
Perfect Cell(Suppressed): 16
SSJ Goku(Cell Games): 16
Perfect Cell: 32
SSJ Vegeta(Boo Arc): 34
SSJ Goku(Boo Arc): 36

However you look at it Goten or Trunks would not have been able to surprise Gohan or Vegeta if they were below #18. Because both of them would be nearly 40x weaker than the adults. It's literally nearly putting a SSJ against a base Saiyan in a fight.

[Hugo Boss]

They are similar, but if you look at his face, it more resembles when Goku does his 100% power up at the Cell Games. And also, the last time Vegeta read Goku's BP, it was like 416, and now it randomly jumps to > 8,000. Piccolo already had saw/sensed them at the tournament, and he's still blown away/speechless.

Piccolo also says they're the only hope before fusion.

I also don't see Piccolo making MSSJ Gohan sweat and forcing him into the air.

Nothing really supports Piccolo > SSJ Kids imo.

No problem if you want to use these examples to justify your opinion, but I just don't see the evidence there.

[mysticboy]

I'm in the Namek arc Goku level camp myself. I really don't see anything that contradicts this.

[IDreamtIWasABee]

Piccolo-Boo is the smoking gun that proves they're sub-Cell Jr. Beyond that, it's anyone's guess.

But they don't deserve to be any stronger than the Vegeta who fought 18. Which, considering the ambiguous concern shown by 18 in reaction to their power, sounds about right.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

I'm in the Namek arc Goku level camp myself. I really don't see anything that contradicts this.

This?

Spoiler:

Or maybe this?:

Spoiler:

Piccolo-Boo is the smoking gun that proves they're sub-Cell. Beyond that, it's anyone's guess.

The boys were in base, and it's never actually stated the strongest always comes out strong. Also, the kids actually did affect the first Piccolo-Boo.