How strong is Kaioshin?

DBZ MAN · Post by **DBZ MAN** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:06 pm

As we never actualy see him fight (apart from that whoop assing from Majin Buu). He said in the animie that he can take on "a thousands of your Freeza's" (Now thats a Bluff if I ever saw one) I know we can only go at speculation. But by judging of the battles each Kai has been in, what do you think?

Chaos Saiyajin · Post by **Chaos Saiyajin** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:12 pm

I think that line about Freeza was dub created. Hmm...I'd say that Kaioshin is probably around the strength of Imperfect Cell, seeing as how he cowered upon seeing Pui Pui.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:36 pm

Chaos Saiyajin wrote: I think that line about Freeza was dub created. Hmm...I'd say that Kaioshin is probably around the strength of Imperfect Cell, seeing as how he cowered upon seeing Pui Pui.

True. The weakest Kaioshin is supposed to be able to take out Freeza with a single blow. Ergo a PL stronger than 150 million, (since SSJ Goku needed a lot more than one hit) but significantly weaker than Cell.

TheMajinRedComet · Post by **TheMajinRedComet** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:36 pm

no no no that line was in the manga and the dub it was about Buu. And I would agree that Kid Buu would be as strong as 1000 Freeza's.

Conan the SSJ · Post by **Conan the SSJ** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:33 pm

TheMajinRedComet wrote:no no no that line was in the manga and the dub it was about Buu. And I would agree that Kid Buu would be as strong as 1000 Freeza's.

In the dub, Kaioshin specificly says; "There were 5 Grand Kais at that time, each one a thousand times more powerful than the one you call Freeza. When they fought Buu, only one survived." According to my Japanese sub of that episode, he says; "At the time there were 5 Kaioshins, any one of which could destroy Freeza with a single attack. Four of them were killed by Majin Buu." Mystery solved for the anime canon?

Chaos Saiyajin · Post by **Chaos Saiyajin** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:33 pm

Conan the SSJ wrote:
TheMajinRedComet wrote:no no no that line was in the manga and the dub it was about Buu. And I would agree that Kid Buu would be as strong as 1000 Freeza's.
In the dub, Kaioshin specificly says; "There were 5 Grand Kais at that time, each one a thousand times more powerful than the one you call Freeza. When they fought Buu, only one survived." According to my Japanese sub of that episode, he says; "At the time there were 5 Kaioshins, any one of which could destroy Freeza with a single attack. Four of them were killed by Majin Buu." Mystery solved for the anime canon?

Really? Wow. Why the mention of Freeza at this point in the storline anyway, I mean, Chaozu could've killed him by now.

Great Saiyaman · Post by **Great Saiyaman** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:39 am

Freeza never went beyond his 2'nd Form, therefore Supreme Kai is only able to kill 2'nd Form Freeza. S.Kai isn;t very powerful at all.

Duo · Post by **Duo** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 5:04 am

Great Saiyaman wrote:Freeza never went beyond his 2'nd Form, therefore Supreme Kai is only able to kill 2'nd Form Freeza. S.Kai isn;t very powerful at all.

Because Toriyama-sensei was obviously taking care to flip through the entire Freeza arc to check his facts and all of that.

Obviously.

But please remember that Freeza said that as though to say "I've never needed to use this in battle before." but not "I've never ever accessed this before.".

Clearly, he had to have used it before to know of it and thus use it, and the Fourth Stage as well. After all, he makes a point of saying (while fighting Goku)

"Heh, no ones ever laid a speck of dust on my body before...except my parents."

Clearly, he didn't mean this about his previous forms because he got plenty dusty in his 2nd and 3rd stages. Freeza's parents, at the very least, had seen the Fourth Stage before, and in conclusion, the Kaioshin would have easily been able to as well (Got that whole being able to see any part of the universe he wants thing goin' on.)

Must I continue?

TheMajinRedComet · Post by **TheMajinRedComet** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 9:00 am

He was reading Vegeta 's mind ....

Daizensushi-x · Post by **Daizensushi-x** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 9:57 am

I would say he is as strong as Goten or Trunks--not super saiyajin level.

Snail · Post by **Snail** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:28 pm

First of all Chaos Saiyajin, I would like to state that Chaozu could've ever defeated Frieza, because even though every character continued to grow stronger and much more skilled, that does not mean that everybody reaches a level where they can defeat the previous main villain. Maybe you were being sarcastic? I don't know.

I believe that Supreme Kai was traumatized by the situation at hand, which caused him to blind himself from the actual strength that Pui Pui, and Yakon held. That's probably the best explanation i can come up with in this moment.

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 1:10 pm

Daizensushi-x wrote:I would say he is as strong as Goten or Trunks--not super saiyajin level.

.......

First of all Chaos Saiyajin, I would like to state that Chaozu could've ever defeated Freeza, because even though every character continued to grow stronger and much more skilled, that does not mean that everybody reaches a level where they can defeat the previous main villain. Maybe you were being sarcastic? I don't know.

Indeed. Chaotzu would be lucky, at the strongest he got in the series, to be able to beat Recoome.

I believe that Supreme Kai was traumatized by the situation at hand, which caused him to blind himself from the actual strength that Pui Pui, and Yakon held. That's probably the best explanation i can come up with in this moment.

Agreed. The Supreme Kai was still freaking out about the danger of Majin Buu. He knew, for a fact, that he could not stop Buu. He could remember Majin Buu killing/absorbing all the other Kais. He was far from thinking logically during the attack on Babidi's ship.

I have no reason to doubt that the Supreme Kai's power lays somewhere between that of Cell Games SSJ Goku and Super Perfect Cell. Probably stronger than Perfect Cell. The fact that he didn't appear while Cell was running around leads me to that. There's no way he missed Cell's power. Super Perfect Cell didn't stick around very long, so that could have been overlooked.

(And please, no "Toriayama-sama hadn't thought of Supreme Kai yet, that's why he didn't show up." Just because he wasn't thought of/inserted in the story yet doesn't mean they don't exist. Otherwise Goku's got no mother. Krillin, Yamcha, and Tien have no parents at all. Etc.)

Chibi Mystic Gohan · Post by **Chibi Mystic Gohan** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 2:59 pm

Kaiô-sama didn't even know that Cell existed until Goku talked to him, so I doubt Kaiôshin would either (as he has other planets to watch over, too).

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:43 pm

Chibi Mystic Gohan wrote:Kaiô-sama didn't even know that Cell existed until Goku talked to him, so I doubt Kaiôshin would either (as he has other planets to watch over, too).

Wasn't he already chasing after Babidi at that point? Plus, if Kaio couldn't sense Cell's ki without focusing on Earth, it's clearly not strong enough to resonate thoughout the entire cosmos.

I doubt that he's stronger than Perfect Cell, since he's afraid of fighting Dabura, whose strength lies between Perfect and Super Perfect Cell.

Super Sonic · Post by **Super Sonic** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 5:44 pm

As he said, Kaioshin didn't look over Earth much so he had no idea that there were guys stronger than him. I have a feeling Piccolo was stronger than him, he was just freaked by his being on top of the god hierarchy.

Chaos Saiyajin · Post by **Chaos Saiyajin** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 6:28 pm

First of all Chaos Saiyajin, I would like to state that Chaozu could've ever defeated Freeza, because even though every character continued to grow stronger and much more skilled, that does not mean that everybody reaches a level where they can defeat the previous main villain. Maybe you were being sarcastic? I don't know.

I was, but then again; Chaozu did train with Tenshinhan to prepare for the Cyborgs, though he didn't fight.

TheMajinRedComet · Post by **TheMajinRedComet** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 11:42 pm

Goten....lol even at SSJ he is weak and has no skill as a fighter, we really shouldn't compare him to the God of the Universe, but I could see Piccolo being stronger then him.

I would put at about form 2 cell's power level, because he was scared of Dabura ( who is roughly as strong as perfect Cell). We shouldn’t give him a hard time about his Buu trauma. You would be scared of Buu too if it was your responsibility to kill him.

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 4:06 am

I would put at about form 2 cell's power level, because he was scared of Dabura ( who is roughly as strong as perfect Cell).

Dabura was stated to be "stronger than Cell" with the obvious implication that he's stronger than Super Perfect Cell. Also note that the Supreme Kai was able to hold SSJ (or was it SSJ2? Can't remember...) Gohan at the Budokai. Which means he is more powerful than Gohan was at that point.

Despite Gohan's weakening I seriously doubt his power as an SSJ had declined that far below Perfect Cell. Somewhere mid-way between Semi-Perfect and Perfect Cell. Which would put Supreme Kai close to Perfect Cell in power. And Piccolo would likely not be much stronger than Semi-Perfect Cell, thus weaker than the Supreme Kai.

Duo · Post by **Duo** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 4:29 am

TheMajinRedComet wrote:Goten....lol even at SSJ he is weak and has no skill as a fighter, we really shouldn't compare him to the God of the Universe, but I could see Piccolo being stronger then him.

I would put at about form 2 cell's power level, because he was scared of Dabura ( who is roughly as strong as perfect Cell). We shouldn’t give him a hard time about his Buu trauma. You would be scared of Buu too if it was your responsibility to kill him.

Ssj Goten gave Ssj Gohan a difficult fight in a sparring match.

"Weak" huh?

TheMajinRedComet · Post by **TheMajinRedComet** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 9:12 am

He is still just a kid. All the inherent power in the world can’t save you if you don’t know how to use it. Just watch movies 10&11 to see how useful he is compared to Gohan.

Just because he can go SSJ doesn’t necessarily mean he is really strong. I don’t think Goten could hold his own against Frieza, but , I will stop there and try to stay on topic.