DVD movie boxes are also cropped?

[karkitos82]

Hello guys,

I've seen that the DVD movies box sets are really cheap now (the remastered versions).

One question...

does this DVDs are also 16:9 like the Blu-Rays? have they been cropped as well? or they are as the original DVDs, only remastered?

thank you!

Karkos

[dbboxkaifan]

Movie Singles = 4x3 AR
Double Feature = 16x9 AR
Double Feature Blu-ray = 16x9 AR

The Movie Singles aren't cropped to 16x9 AR but I personally like them that way all the more as it just feel like a 40min episode of DBZ.

[Ajay]

It's worth considering that, while the films were animated using standard full frame cels, they were composed with a 16:9 presentation in mind - a very different case from what FUNi did to the TV series.

Because of this, you will occasionally run into incomplete frames with the 4:3 releases:



I recommend the 16:9 sets. Though you are losing image at the top and bottom, they were never intended to be seen in the first place, so take that for what it's worth.

[karkitos82]

Movie Singles = 4x3 AR
Double Feature = 16x9 AR
Double Feature Blu-ray = 16x9 AR

The Movie Singles aren't cropped to 16x9 AR but I personally like them that way all the more as it just feel like a 40min episode of DBZ.

Are the ones on this boxes the Double Features? 16:9?

[dbboxkaifan]

That's the repackaged version of the DFs.

Canada had a complete edition of that release, I think. It looked pretty darn cool.

[karkitos82]

It's worth considering that, while they films were animated using the standard full frame cels, they were composed with a 16:9 presentation in mind - a very different case from what FUNi did to the TV series.

Because of this, you will occasionally run into incomplete frames with the 4:3 releases:



I recommend the 16:9 sets. Though you are losing image at the top and bottom, they were never intended to be seen in the first place, so take for what it's worth.

Ajay,

My hesitation for the remastered versions is precisely because of the remaster made by Funimation.

I'm not too confident about the original art being modified. Maybe if it was done by TOEI I'd be more confident about it, but I'm not too confident about FUNimation.

I haven't really seen FUNIMATION work though... do you approve their remasterization, Ajay?

I'm old school guy, so I think my best way to go is to build my collection from the original DVDs released years ago... (which I know they are expensier).

I mean, if I want the most pure, closest version to the originals should be that first line of DVDs right? since they were not cropped or remastered...

[dbboxkaifan]

I just remembered! FUNimation has remastered the DB movies 1-4 in HD but they're yet to be released on Blu-ray so we might be seeing a new remaster of DB and Z films in HD on Blu-ray. I'd wait if I were you, although it kinda looks like the same but in HD for DB 1-4.

By the way, the DFs are a mixed bag which is why I never bothered to get them.

[karkitos82]

I just remembered! FUNimation has remastered the DB movies 1-4 in HD but they're yet to be released on Blu-ray so we might be seeing a new remaster of DB and Z films in HD on Blu-ray. I'd wait if I were you, although it kinda looks like the same but in HD for DB 1-4.

By the way, the DFs are a mixed bag which is why I never bothered to get them.

Thanks for your replies, man.

I think I go and look for the original dvds from 2000s...

they are not touched by funimation, nor cropped or remastered...

i know they will be expensier tho...

[Ajay]

Ajay,
My hesitation for the remastered versions is precisely because of the remaster made by Funimation.
I'm not too confident about the original art being modified. Maybe if it was done by TOEI I'd be more confident about it, but I'm not too confident about FUNimation.
I haven't really seen FUNIMATION work though... do you approve their remasterization, Ajay?
I'm old school guy, so I think my best way to go is to build my collection from the original DVDs released years ago... (which I know they are expensier).
I mean, if I want the most pure, closest version to the originals should be that first line of DVDs right? since they were not cropped or remastered...

Well, the movies were released in Japan by Toei in 16:9 as they were intended to be seen (Dragon Box: The Movies). If you want to be as close to the original intentions of the staff, then you should be going with a 16:9 release. If you'd rather see every bit of animation feasible, and that's what you consider purest, then that's totally fine. I'm just more of a 'intended to be seen' kinda guy.

FUNi's movie remaster isn't particularly offensive, honestly. Here's a comparison between their 4:3 release and the 16:9 option:

Spoiler:

In those shots, I'd argue the 16:9 option offers superior quality. However, both sets do have their ups and downs:

Spoiler:

The 16:9 option is overly bright, in this case. So, neither option is really 100% perfect.

Up to you. You could mix and match based on what users consider superior, as the balance tilts across each film.

Personally, I despise rainbowing, so I'd be inclined to go with the 16:9 sets on that alone. Fortunately, I have the Dragon Box set, so I'm all set in that regard!

[karkitos82]

Ajay,

Thank you as always for your responses! They're so clear and complete with the screenshots.

So, the Dragon Box that you mention, was also cropped by TOEI? Did they remastered also?

Congrats on getting one of those! you should feel blessed!

[Ajay]

Yeah, it was also cropped, so as to present it in the intended aspect ratio. They sourced their original masters, cleaned them up and threw them on the disc. It looks pretty nice, though there was no colour correction done, so some movies are a little off-colour. It's nothing too distracting though. You can read more about the overall quality of the set here.

Dragon Box:

Spoiler:

FUNi 16:9 Release:

Spoiler:

The sets also contain fantastic Japanese audio that isn't present on any US release, too.

I'm not entirely sure what FUNi has planned, but they've supposedly got something in mind for the future. This is purely a statement made someone who is friends with Clarine Harp, the director of home video production at FUNimation. We have no clue how true that is, though, so I can't really recommend holding out on that if you're in a rush to buy these films.

[DemonRin]

So, the Dragon Box that you mention, was also cropped by TOEI? Did they remastered also?

What Ajay is trying to explain is, with regards to the first 17 movies (DB Movies 1-4, DBZ movies 1-13) it's not a simple answer when you ask "Were they cropped?"

They were animated with the intent that they be shown in 16:9 Widescreen, and every single release they have ever received in Japan, including the original theatrical presentation as well as all home video releases, were in 16:9 Widescreen. For all intents and purposes, 16:9 Widescreen is the "Official" way the movies are intended to be watched in Japan.

So, how does a 4:3 version exist then?

Well, for some reason, Toei animated them using 4:3 animation cells. I remember reading somewhere that this was caused by Toei not having experience working with anything but 4:3 cells, so they just used what they had and cropped it to 16:9 to be shown in theaters, but I can't confirm that. Either way, that's how they animated it, and so the Masters FUNimation got were 4:3. Since most TVs then were 4:3, that's what FUNimation released.

The reason people are saying the cropping isn't really an issue for the movies is because when they animated it, they knew IN ADVANCE that they would be cropping it to 16:9, so they animated around this concept. So you have instances, plenty of them, where the animation is unfinished in the areas they knew they'd be cropping. Which is why this pic got posted, and I'll post it again to illustrate:



See where the arrow is pointing? Gohan's Masenko wasn't fully drawn. They just stopped when they got to the top there because they intended to crop it and knew nobody would see that part of the screen, at least in Japan.

IMO, an uncropped version of the movies looks sloppy when these things come up. It looks like blatantly unfinished animation, and I can't help but notice it whenever it comes up, it irks me. YMMV I suppose, and this is really a long answer to your question, but as I said, it doesn't have the easiest answer

TL;DR: Toei animated it specifically TO be cropped and it shows, so they crop it for that reason.



As far as the remastering quality goes, I was collecting the Double Features for a while until the Dragon Box announcement happened and had language stating FUNi had the Movies, so I stopped to wait for a DBox The Movies release which still hasn't happened... however, I have Movies 1+2, 5-7, 9, and 12-13 in the Double Features release, and honestly? I think they're serviceable. The remastering doesn't look too bad at all here. I think this comes from the same reason three episodes in the Namek Arc randomly looked decent on the Orange Bricks despite the rest being meh. The movies, IIRC, were Mastered on a higher quality film stock (35mm) vs the TV series that used a lower quality (16mm) film stock.

What this means is, the Automated remastering FUNimation put the movies through did a better job on them because it had a better source to work from.

So, again, your mileage may vary on this, but to give you some background on me, I hate the Cropped 16:9 "Orange Brick" releases, I own DBZ in the FUNimation Dragon Box format and refuse to buy the Blu-ray "Season" releases of the series and wish FUNi had stuck with the "Level" sets.
That being said, I have no problem with FUNimation's handling of the movies and think, while they aren't perfect, they do a perfectly adequate job of portraying the movies. The only reason I stopped buying them was I was hoping we'd get a D-Box The movies, and I wanted the nifty extras that might have come with that (Like the Dragon Book and the nice collectors box etc)
Basically, Video quality had nothing to do with my decision to stop collecting them. (Might wait now to see if anything comes of this Blu-ray boxed set idea)

[VegettoEX]

and every single release they have ever received in Japan, including the original theatrical presentation as well as all home video releases, were in 16:9 Widescreen

That's not 100% true. Some of them did in fact receive 4:3 home video releases (though I'm blanking how far they got), and kei has mentioned seeing them theatrically as a kid with some of them being 4:3 in his local theater.

[DemonRin]

and every single release they have ever received in Japan, including the original theatrical presentation as well as all home video releases, were in 16:9 Widescreen

That's not 100% true. Some of them did in fact receive 4:3 home video releases (though I'm blanking how far they got), and kei has mentioned seeing them theatrically as a kid with some of them being 4:3 in his local theater.

Really? Hm, never seen or heard about that. Would be interesting if someone could track down one of those (I'm assuming VHS?) releases.

Could be a rental-only thing. I know, for example, Toei's current DVD release of One Piece is 16:9 starting with the Water 7 Arc, and as far as I've seen, you can't buy 4:3 releases of those latter episodes, but Rental stores in particular got 4:3 copies. Presumably for people who wanted to keep watching the show in the same AR.

Maybe this was a similar thing?

[kei17]

16:9 is preferable, but 4:3 is also totally fine is my opinion on the aspect ratio of old DB/DBZ movies.

A lot of widescreen anime movies until the mid '90s were animated and filmed in 4:3 with 16:9 in mind and ultimately shown in 16:9 at theaters, which was because you need larger and more expensive cels and equipment to animate everything in 16:9 from the beginning. It was not just a Toei thing. Also, TVs were 4:3 at the time, so they could easily produce home video releases in full screen if movies are filmed in 4:3. In fact, DB movie 1 to DBZ movie 3 were released in 4:3 on VHS by Toei themselves in Japan. These facts suggest that they were allowed to be seen in both 16:9 and 4:3, but 16:9 is more preferable because it's how they were intended to be shown at theaters. As VegettoEX stated, some local theaters with old equipment seem to have shown them in 4:3, though. Film prints still had 4:3 image and it was up to theaters whether they crop it.

So then how about the masenko example from DBZ movie 3 that some people often refer to as a definitive evidence that they were not intended to be seen in 4:3? I think it's just one of common animation errors that barely has anything to do with the intended aspect ratio. If they were really not thinking about the 4:3 format, there must have been far more instances of uncolored or non-drawn parts at the top and bottom all the way through movies so that they could save more paint and production time, but they bothered to fill up the full screen except for a very few instances like the masenko one.

[DB1984]

Looking at the full screen credits for DBZ Movie 1, there is a lot of blank space in the opening. Especially when they show the music and song listings. Like as if it is wasted space.