How exactly Gohan could have been better in the Boo arc

[SMKirbyZX]

Hello! I'm new here to Kanzenshuu, and this is my first topic. I hope to have a good time in the forums.

Now, it's no surprise that Gohan was a major let-down in terms of character development and action. That's definitely been said to death. However, let's stop talking about why he sucked, and start talking about what could've happened. What if Gohan was really good in the Boo arc? How could he have been better than he is now? Well, here's my interpretation:

(This paragraph talks about what was wrong with Gohan in the Boo arc, while the next talks about how exactly he could've been better. You may skip to the next paragraph if you wish.) The main problem with Gohan in the Boo arc was character development, in which he really didn't have any. He slacked off in training, and while you say that he isn't a fighter at heart, that's where the character development should have kicked in. He should learn how important it is to fight and become strong. Who knows when another villain might come? When Goku died, Gohan should have realized that he is the defender of earth, and that he needs to get stronger to protect it. But because he didn't get the hint, he got his energy absorbed and almost got killed by boo. He couldn't even defeat Dabura, who was as strong as cell! Don't even get me started with Mystic Gohan. In Dragon Ball, a power up of a character meant something for that character, or at least effected them, such as get more wiser. However Gohan fails in that regard, and it's shown in his fight with Bootenks. I'm not talking about strength though, as Goku says to Raditz, "If you think power is everything, then you're no fighter!" Anyways, Bootenks mainly outsmarted Gohan, then he gets eaten. To me, the entire point of Mystic Gohan was to make boo more powerful, which is stupid. So, Gohan had absolutely no battle strategy whatsoever, which is why he lost. This should have been improved too, especially when he was training with the kai's. The kai's could have done some test to improve his intellect.

Now, regarding how he could have been better, imagine this: Gohan trains hard and studies hard, but finds more value in studying to be a scholar. He still trains, but doesn't know the purpose of martial arts. H doesn't like to fight, but he trains to fulfill his father's expectations of becoming strong. This would be his character arc in the Boo saga: Gohan is trying to find a purpose in Martial arts. After a series of unfortunate events, Gohan ends up in Supreme Kai's world, where he trains with the Z sword. When the Elder Kai appears, this is where Gohan's character can progress. Instead of Elder Kai being weak but giving Gohan a power up, the Kai could be VERY strong (because, technically he is GOD) but not as strong as, I guess, Boo-han. The Elder Kai can train Gohan (preferably like how Karin trained Goku), and teach him one of the many purposes of Martial Arts: to protect. After all the training and knowledge, Gohan goes back to Earth with his new power. He beats Super Boo to near death, but Boo escapes. Boo absorbs Gotenks and Piccolo, and now Gohan vs Boo-tenks commences. They both are equal in power, and the fight goes on for a long time. Goku goes to help, and he gets the potara earrings just in case. Goku arrives to see the two exhausted, but still fighting. All three of them talk briefly, but during that time, Boo set a trap that ends up absorbing Gohan. The rest happens exactly as it does.

Now, doesn't that sound better? Not only is the ending for the series still in tact, but Gohan goes through a natural development throughout the series. This way, he has a completed character arc.

So, what are your thoughts on how he could be good? Agree, or disagree? Constructive criticism is allowed, and if you want to suggests any changes or add-ons, feel free to do so. If you have your own vision of how Gohan could be better, feel free to post it. Thanks!

[Lord Beerus]

You make a lot of really good points and I agree with practically everything you said. That sad thing about the whole situation is that it wouldn't really take much effort to improve Gohan's character in the Majin Boo arc. Just have him study and train for equal amounts of time, so that he remains strong, while also intelligent. And then on his days off, or when he feels like it, he can play superhero as the Great Saiyaman. Because he obviously enjoys doing that kind of stuff, too.

[ABED]

and while you say that he isn't a fighter at heart, that's where the character development should have kicked in. He should learn how important it is to fight and become strong.

He did know that. While it could've been handled better, I like the idea that Gohan gets his wish to be a scholar and occasionally help out. Let the ones that truly want to fight take the lead roles.

[sbk]

I find Gohan slacking off to focus on his studies not that different from Goku slacking off for 4 years when he had Gohan.

Anyway I thought he was fine in the Buu arc. He focuses on his studies, but he's also constantly skipping school to fight criminals and to train for the tournament, he enjoys training with Goten, and we see him enjoying fighting Dabura and Buu. He was like a likeable mix between a regular human and a saiyan

He was constantly lamenting the fact that he lost power, saying how he "shouldn't have let himself slide" after training with Goten, and how he felt guilty for not being able to save Piccolo and Krillin because he couldn't beat Dabura, as a result of him slacking off. He clearly regretted slacking off and this arc was clearly supposed to be a lesson to him

Yet in the new movies he's slacking off even more and loses even more power.. right after the arc where he's constantly regretting the fact that he let himself lose so much power in the first place.. even when he has a baby to protect..

tl;dr I don't mind him in the Buu arc It's the new movies that have completely butchered him and threw out any kind of character development he underwent

[Kamiccolo9]

Gohan was fine in the Buu Arc.

The problem was building him up so much and then just dumping him at the end of it for Goku again.

[SMKirbyZX]

and while you say that he isn't a fighter at heart, that's where the character development should have kicked in. He should learn how important it is to fight and become strong.

He did know that. While it could've been handled better, I like the idea that Gohan gets his wish to be a scholar and occasionally help out. Let the ones that truly want to fight take the lead roles.

I don't feel like he did. At the end of the Cell arc, I think he just learned that some foes have to die. But I do like Gohan being a scholar. Didn't Dragon Ball Online mention that he wrote a book about Ki control and whatnot? I think, had he been more of a fighter, he would be able to have a lot of things to contribute to it.

[ABED]

and while you say that he isn't a fighter at heart, that's where the character development should have kicked in. He should learn how important it is to fight and become strong.

He did know that. While it could've been handled better, I like the idea that Gohan gets his wish to be a scholar and occasionally help out. Let the ones that truly want to fight take the lead roles.

I don't feel like he did. At the end of the Cell arc, I think he just learned that some foes have to die. But I do like Gohan being a scholar. Didn't Dragon Ball Online mention that he wrote a book about Ki control and whatnot? I think, had he been more of a fighter, he would be able to have a lot of things to contribute to it.

But he already knew that some have to die. Gohan's dilemma felt more like a forced attempt at drama than an organic moment.

[fadeddreams5]

One of my biggest gripes with how Gohan was handled is simply the gap between the Cell Games and the Buu saga. 7 years is a long time, and it felt like we were sort of forced to accept a new character, rather than the Gohan we left off with. Teen Gohan bares several differences to his child counterpart. I wish we had a saga in between that gap that allowed us to see Kid Gohan's progress as a character, and him handling a threat without the need of daddy--essentially, his development into a leader. I feel he was build up too much, only to be dumped to the side.

But as for Teen Gohan, I like his quirky personality. The obvious change that needed to be made is his commitment to training. Also, his hairstyle should be different...for obvious reasons. Truthfully, I'd change A LOT about this saga since it's by far the worst of the three, imo. But focusing on the character, I wish he turned a 180 in the face of battle. He could be like Future Trunks was against Mecha Frieza: confident, serious, and able to easily pull the trigger. It would be awesome if when he showed off his powers to Kibito, Vegeta would comment on how weak he's gotten, but someone else would correct him and say Gohan isn't even in his ascended form--something he'd reveal in the Dabura battle, absolutely stunning everyone in the process. I don't want to delve into story changes I'd make in the middle of the saga, but I will say SSJ2 should NOT have been a thing. That should have remained exclusive to Gohan, while SSJ3 could be a regular saiyan's substitute to achieve that level of strength.

Goes without saying that Gohan should have been the one to beat Buu as well. The way I would have done that battle is having him curbstomp Super Buu as usual. Everything would have gone as it did, including him losing to Buutenks, but once the fusion ran out, Gohan would have the upper hand and smack Buu around like Vegito did. Inside Buu, Trunks and Goten would be released from their pods after defusing, and they'd have the same adventure Goku and Vegeta did inside him. They'd save Piccolo and release Fat Buu. Outside, Buu would change into Kid Buu, and he would blow up the Earth, only now Gohan, Goten, Piccolo and Trunks would be saved, along with Fat Buu, Hercule, Dende, and Bee. Kid Buu, who is exactly on par with Gohan, would fight him as Goku fought him, and curbstomp everyone else. Goku would enter the battlefield, be beaten, but someone would suggest the spirit bomb. Everything goes as normal. He forms it, but Buu would have the upper hand as usual. Someone tells the Namekians to heal Goku, but the dragon refuses on account of him being dead. As Kid Buu is about to win, Gohan's energy is restored instead, he flies up to where Goku is, Goku descends and watches his son take his place, and Gohan wins. The End.

[TheGreatness25]

But Gohan was not a fighter. And if you think about it, there really was no reason for him to think that things should fall on him. Even though he was more powerful than Vegeta in the Cell Games, Vegeta was always going to train and it isn't exactly predictable that a more powerful foe would ever appear. Gohan never wanted to fight. He was forced into it from the time he was 4. All he wanted was to live in peace and become a scholar. I think he had excellent character development because that was part of it. People who were let down by Gohan simply can't accept that he was not like Goku; he never wanted to fight, ever. His character development was that he went to high school, he was getting himself a girlfriend, he was being a good older brother to Goten, and he was trying to provide money for his family by entering the Tournament. People were let down by Gohan because he wasn't the bad-ass Super Saiyan ass-kicker like he was in the Cell arc; well that's not who he was. Akira Toriyama MIGHT HAVE gone that direction had his original plans come through, but people rejected them, so it never came true.

In my opinion, I really liked Boo arc Gohan. The only let-down that I can see is that Mystic was overpowered in no time.

[SMKirbyZX]

But as for Teen Gohan, I like his quirky personality. The obvious change that needed to be made is his commitment to training. Also, his hairstyle should be different...for obvious reasons. Truthfully, I'd change A LOT about this saga since it's by far the worst of the three, imo. But focusing on the character, I wish he turned a 180 in the face of battle. He could be like Future Trunks was against Mecha Freeza: confident, serious, and able to easily pull the trigger. It would be awesome if when he showed off his powers to Kibito, Vegeta would comment on how weak he's gotten, but someone else would correct him and say Gohan isn't even in his ascended form--something he'd reveal in the Dabura battle, absolutely stunning everyone in the process. I don't want to delve into story changes I'd make in the middle of the saga, but I will say SSJ2 should NOT have been a thing. That should have remained exclusive to Gohan, while SSJ3 could be a regular saiyan's substitute to achieve that level of strength.

Goes without saying that Gohan should have been the one to beat Buu as well. The way I would have done that battle is having him curbstomp Super Buu as usual. Everything would have gone as it did, including him losing to Buutenks, but once the fusion ran out, Gohan would have the upper hand and smack Buu around like Vegito did. Inside Buu, Trunks and Goten would be released from their pods after defusing, and they'd have the same adventure Goku and Vegeta did inside him. They'd save Piccolo and release Fat Buu. Outside, Buu would change into Kid Buu, and he would blow up the Earth, only now Gohan, Goten, Piccolo and Trunks would be saved, along with Fat Buu, (the H-word), Dende, and Bee. Kid Buu, who is exactly on par with Gohan, would fight him as Goku fought him, and curbstomp everyone else. Goku would enter the battlefield, be beaten, but someone would suggest the spirit bomb. Everything goes as normal. He forms it, but Buu would have the upper hand as usual. Someone tells the Namekians to heal Goku, but the dragon refuses on account of him being dead. As Kid Buu is about to win, Gohan's energy is restored instead, he flies up to where Goku is, Goku descends and watches his son take his place, and Gohan wins. The End.

These are some initial sketches for Gohan: http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/dra ... 0801195626 The one to the far right looks a LOT better. Actually, looking at Gohan's hair, it looks like his hair in the late Cell arc, except that he used hair gel on his spikes.

But I definitely agree with you. That's exactly how I would imagine how the fight between Gohan and Dabura should have went. The ending you said would be a perfect substitute for the actual ending, in that it shows Gohan carrying the torch. By the way, if SSJ2 should be exculsive to Gohan, then what about Vegeta?

[shinmaru]

Welcome, I don't really have a problem with Gohan's development. Gohan had his moment in Cell arc. And I think his character is meant to fail as successor because he is no fighter at heart, and he can't study and train at the same time and keep up with Beji and Goku. That makes it more realistic for me I think the real problem is not Gohan but the whole arc. The problem is that Toriyama didn't have any motivation left in him for the Buu arc. He barely had any motivation for DragonBall in the first place. I won't be surprised if Gohan can't keep up in Super and is just a background character like he was in GT

[fadeddreams5]

These are some initial sketches for Gohan: http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/dra ... 0801195626 The one to the far right looks a LOT better. Actually, looking at Gohan's hair, it looks like his hair in the late Cell arc, except that he used hair gel on his spikes.

But I definitely agree with you. That's exactly how I would imagine how the fight between Gohan and Dabura should have went. The ending you said would be a perfect substitute for the actual ending, in that it shows Gohan carrying the torch. By the way, if SSJ2 should be exculsive to Gohan, then what about Vegeta?

Yeah, I like that sketch. I wouldn't mind his hair from Resurrection F either.

As for Vegeta... eh. Besides Majin, people would be mad, but he would just remain SSJ. It would be SSJ Goku vs Majin Vegeta; no SSJ2. As it is, people were mad that he never got SSJ3 anyways, so it doesn't change anything. xD

[NitroEX]

For me Toriyama's handling of Gohan in the Buu arc is so flawed at a fundamental level that it's almost as if he was setting the character up for failure on purpose. In my honest opinion I think in order to salvage it and turn Gohan into a relatable/likable character you'd have to just start from scratch, again that's just my opinion though.

Here are some of the things I would do differently:
1. (Starting from the conclusion of the Cell games) Leave Gohan's emotional state in a relatively grey area after hearing Goku's decision to stay dead. Having him be happy about it is nice and all but I think there's far more potential for character development if you let that heavy decision set in for 7 years and see the effects.

2. Going off of the first change this would introduce us to a Gohan (now in the Buu arc) that isn't the happy-go-lucky teenager we know, instead he would start off as an emotionally broken person after secretly feeling responsible for his father's death. By doing it this way it makes his transformation into a strong hero at the end of the arc all the more impactful. I'm not saying make him full "emo Gohan" but showing the lingering effects of having no dad for 7 years would make him immediately more sympathetic. It could also be developed into a valid reason why he might not have had the motivation to keep training/fighting for all these years (aside from the whole pacifist thing during the Cell fight).

3. Have him go to High school like before but make him chase Videl and show interest in her. If she's established as someone who's super important to him then not only is she key in helping him overcome emotional/depression issues rooted in his past but during situations of danger she would only help raise tension. What better way to motivate Gohan to fight than by putting Videl in the line of fire? If she were to die in front of him due to his lack of training/rusty skills then that would not only make for a really powerful and iconic moment but it would undoubtedly force him to change his attitude from that point onwards.

4. Play up the theme of Gohan being a disappointment to others. This was kind of there in the actual story but had no real pay off. I would really play it up throughout the Buu arc by making it a recurring thing. Vegeta is disappointed in him, Goku is as well and perhaps even Chi-chi too. Maybe instead of Goten just being a SSJ prodigy he could also be super smart for his age thus becoming the new favourite son. This makes Gohan's past achievements forgotten and would force him to prove himself once again, basically making him the underdog in a lot of ways.

5. Have Goku come back but have some tension between father and son. I always felt there was a lot left unsaid between these two and the Buu arc would have been great time for exploring that. What if Gohan actually somewhat resented Goku for choosing to stay dead and confronted him about it while on the Kai's planet? Maybe when Goku returns to Earth to help Gohan against Buu he's the one absorbed instead. We briefly got some smack talk from the Piccolo side of Buu (which I loved btw) but it could have been so much cooler to have his own father mocking him during a fight. To top it all off if he had used famous Goku techniques like the IT and Spirit bomb against Gohan it would make for tons of possibilities for the fight itself, (Buuku?) would have been an awesome villain imo!

Also I know people will hate this idea but I kinda like having Gohan being put in the dilemma of having the power to kill Buuku but not doing so because he'd essentially be killing his father (again). The drama there would be amazing if executed right.

6. Make the Ultimate form strong but give it a drawback: In order to maintain it's power he needs to remain in full control his emotions (fighting a Buu version of his father would test that for sure). Not only does this add more tension to the fights but it's fitting for his character because in all the previous arcs he would always gain power by completely losing it. Having him learn to control that (with the help of the Kais) would have been an awesome way to bring that aspect of his character full circle.

7. Have the kai's teach him a new technique. Gohan desperately needs a new move to separate himself from Goku, it would obviously need to be one that we haven't seen before.

And to top it all off I personally would have him be the one to kill Buu. Keep in mind you could still have Goku and Gotenks be a big part of that (internal struggles taking place within Buu) but I think if you develop Gohan properly throughout the arc then it only makes sense for him to close the book on it.

Also, his hairstyle should be different...for obvious reasons.

Knew I forgot something.

[SMKirbyZX]

But Gohan was not a fighter. And if you think about it, there really was no reason for him to think that things should fall on him. Even though he was more powerful than Vegeta in the Cell Games, Vegeta was always going to train and it isn't exactly predictable that a more powerful foe would ever appear. Gohan never wanted to fight. He was forced into it from the time he was 4. All he wanted was to live in peace and become a scholar. I think he had excellent character development because that was part of it. People who were let down by Gohan simply can't accept that he was not like Goku; he never wanted to fight, ever. His character development was that he went to high school, he was getting himself a girlfriend, he was being a good older brother to Goten, and he was trying to provide money for his family by entering the Tournament. People were let down by Gohan because he wasn't the bad-ass Super Saiyan ass-kicker like he was in the Cell arc; well that's not who he was. Akira Toriyama MIGHT HAVE gone that direction had his original plans come through, but people rejected them, so it never came true.

In my opinion, I really liked Boo arc Gohan. The only let-down that I can see is that Mystic was overpowered in no time.

It's not that I want him to be like Goku, I just want him to have less flaws. If he wanted to live in peace, then he should train to keep the peace. I don't think it's smart for someone of Gohan's strength and mind to not train. As the great Muten Roshi would say, "As great as you may be, there will always be someone better!"

As for Gohan never being a fighter, I never understood that idea. What exactly does it mean? If it means that he wasn't meant to fight, then I'd have to disagree. He was pretty much obligated to so. For one, he had hidden potential. If Raditz didn't happen, then I'm sure Goku would witness Gohan's potential sooner or later, and probably might've trained him in secret. Why waste it? Plus, the concept of not being a fighter is something that can be grown out of through a desire to get stronger for different intentions.

[NitroEX]

Gohan never wanted to fight. He was forced into it from the time he was 4. All he wanted was to live in peace and become a scholar. I think he had excellent character development because that was part of it. People who were let down by Gohan simply can't accept that he was not like Goku; he never wanted to fight, ever. His character development was that he went to high school, he was getting himself a girlfriend, he was being a good older brother to Goten, and he was trying to provide money for his family by entering the Tournament.

None of what you listed is character development, not to be rude or anything but you just listed things he did during the Buu arc that had little to no significance to the story as a whole. Him going to school, hooking up with Videl, being a good brother etc literally had no real pay off story wise, you could take them out and Gohan himself would remain virtually the same as a character.

Btw when was it established that he explicitly wanted to become a Scholar? If you're talking about something he said at the age of four then I have to remind you that people's life goals change when they grow up. As a four year old I wanted to be lots of things that I grew out of. I'm not saying being a fighter couldn't be one of the things but that's something he's been around for most of his life so it's built into him by the start of the Buu arc, even if he wanted to get rid of it it's still a big part of who he is.

[90sDBZ]

I think he was handled just fine until he got absorbed and forgotten about. I always loved the line from Goku "Just fight with your feelings like you did against Cell and nobody in the world can beat you". It was as if to say despite him slacking off for 7 years the potential of his anger was truly limitless.

I felt like the whole Z-Sword thing was a perfect buildup for him. At that point he knew he'd let the earth down by slacking off and really seemed determined to redeem himself as he trained with the sword. And then he got the Mystic Power up and it was truly epic. The entire middle portion of the Buu saga felt like it was leading up to Gohan's rematch with Buu. The badass who saved the world from Cell was back and his true potential was finally unleashed. And then he made the mistake of letting Goten and Trunks fuse when something was obviously off and later failed to catch an earring and ended up getting absorbed.

I really liked the way he was handled during the Buutenks fight with Buu taunting him about his failure and Gohan fighting back courageously. If Gohan were to be the hero of the Buu saga, killing Buutenks in a rage would have been the best way. Obviously having him kill normal Super Buu with no effort would have been anti-climactic.

I really like the story the way it is and agree that Goku should be the main hero. But that doesn't automatically mean that Gohan needs to be made useless. He can surely be a scholar and a great fighter. On a side note I always got the impression that it was Chi Chi forcing him to want to be a scholar. A lot of filler scenes show him sneaking out of his bedroom to go and do more fun things. He even seemed excited about fighting the opponents on Babidi's spaceship and insisted on fighting alone for the sport of it just like Goku and Vegeta.

Throughout Z Goku and Gohan both shared the spotlight in turns until the end where Gohan gave up fighting. I think Gohan even got more screen time in Z overall.

[Doctor.]

I have absolutely no problems with Gohan in the Boo arc. In fact, barring Future Gohan, it's easily my favourite version of the character. His personality was kept intact, he preferred studying over training and the result of that was shown in the Boo arc: he lost a lot of power and constantly beat himself up over that and kept lamenting that he slacked off. As someone here on Kanzenshuu put it, the Elder Kaioshin power-up was a psychological battle. While everyone on Earth was dying, Gohan had to live with it all happening while he was just standing around doing absolutely nothing. It was a lesson and I've always thought that he had developed as a character because of it, that he had finally filled in the shoes of his father and that he was prepared to be the protector Earth needed when he came to face Super Boo.

My problem with Gohan stems from his portrayal in Ressurection 'F'. I always thought that he actually learned something but Toriyama disagrees unfortunately. In-universe, it seems like Goku being around led Gohan into another state of slacking off and if he's going to be a relevant character in Super, I can't see his character arc not being just a repetition.

[ABED]

I think he was handled just fine until he got absorbed and forgotten about. I always loved the line from Goku "Just fight with your feelings like you did against Cell and nobody in the world can beat you". It was as if to say despite him slacking off for 7 years the potential of his anger was truly limitless.

ANd that's one of the things that bugs me about Gohan as a main character. His power is limitless because of some tie to his emotions. It's not as much a matter of hard work and skill. And lastly, he says it's limitless. Assuming that's true, it's simply an excuse to allow Gohan to fight stronger opponents without having to take up story time showing him train. Why do that when he simply has more hidden power?

[LuckyCat]

Gohan was fine in the Buu Arc.

The problem was building him up so much and then just dumping him at the end of it for Goku again.

This is exactly what I was planning to write. The real problem with Gohan in Buu arc is that none of his story threads get resolved (What happened with the gold fighter, did the Orange Star School learn to accept his mutant abilities, was Great Saiya Man still a thing, does Gohan still have his Mystic powers from Elder Kai?)

Granted, you could pretty much make your own guesses what happens. But it would make more sense for the resolution of the Buu arc to at least mention some problems brought up with Gohan in its intro and mid-chapters.

His characterization was fine though.

[SMKirbyZX]

I have absolutely no problems with Gohan in the Boo arc. In fact, barring Future Gohan, it's easily my favourite version of the character. His personality was kept intact, he preferred studying over training and the result of that was shown in the Boo arc: he lost a lot of power and constantly beat himself up over that and kept lamenting that he slacked off. As someone here on Kanzenshuu put it, the Elder Kaioshin power-up was a psychological battle. While everyone on Earth was dying, Gohan had to live with it all happening while he was just standing around doing absolutely nothing. It was a lesson and I've always thought that he had developed as a character because of it, that he had finally filled in the shoes of his father and that he was prepared to be the protector Earth needed when he came to face Super Boo.

Never looked at it that way. That's a pretty good interpretation. However, like I said before, it doesn't have to be fighting training. Make it something like Karin's training, where a simple task is very difficult, but proves to have a meaningful purpose and result. Maybe it could be something trivial. Granted, the whole waiting thing was the same thing, Gohan didn't really learn much from the power up. What exactly did he learn from the psychological battle? How did this effect him mentally for the battle against Boo, besides giving him confidence (in other words, how did it make him wiser or stronger in the mindset of battle?)