God Ki is weird

[RedRibbonSoldier#42]

It seems pretty inconsistent. Goku was able to sense Kaio (He was able to Instant Transmission to him, so he must have), so does that mean Kaio does not have God Ki? Piccolo was the first the discern Kaioshin's true nature, and the Kaioshin thought it was because Piccolo used to be Kami. And yet, it seems he couldn't sense who Beerus was in Dragonball Super. Did Dende gain God Ki when took the job of Kami of Earth? He started out as a normal Namekian, although you clearly don't have to be born a god to have God Ki, as Goku got it when he transformed. Goku didn't take on a job after transforming but still got god power, so are gods in the Dragonball verse jobs or a state of being? both? either?

[RancorSnp]

Putting the fact, that godly ki was not thought of yet, aside - we do not know wether Goku could really sens Kaio's KI. Yes he did use instant transmission to the place he was at, but he could have detected as much as lifeforce itself (aka. genki) rahter than his Ki.

Then again with Piccolo being able to realize the "true nature" of Supreme Kai - he could have just connected Kami's knowledge about gods of the universe, and this was enough for him to guess that this person who he can't feel Ki even just right before the fight, has to be a god. It's also worth poinitng out that he didn't know what god this is, but he assumed it's one of the very amazing ones (probably seing his confidence, or something in his posture) so he assumed it has to be the Grand Kai.

Beerus might have been a being that lower gods like planet protectors were not told about, because nobody wanted to waste his time passing the information among hunderds of inhabited planets. Dende took a long while to realize Beerus is a god, and again - didn't know what god it is.

As for the godly Ki (if this is even a thing, which is debatable) it's safe to asume it's a power you aquire while holding the position of Planet protector, or are born as one of the more important gods. Afterall Kami was also a completely normal Namekian, yet I am sure he got new powers thanks to becoming protector of Earth - like being able to see everything happening on earth from the lookout.

[Pantalones]

Goku was able to sense Kaio (He was able to Instant Transmission to him, so he must have), so does that mean Kaio does not have God Ki?

Could be that the Kaios have both "regular" ki and "godly" ki, and Goku was able to lock on to his "regular" ki supply. Beerus, Whis, and the Kaioshin seem to be the only ones that nobody besides the gods can sense, so maybe the higher up in the god hierarchy you are, the closer to "only godly ki" your innate ki supply becomes. So Kami/Kaio type positions = lots of regular ki and a little godly ki, while the higher gods are so disproportionately filled with godly ki that those without any godly ki can't sense their power at all. I wonder where the Grand Kai/Dai Kaio would fit along this line -- presumably between the Kaios and Kaioshins?

And yet, it seems he couldn't sense who Beerus was in Dragonball Super.

Could be that he (and Kami) were just never aware of Beerus, so rather than "oh crap, is this guy a God of Destruction?" his reaction was "who the heck is this purple cat guy?" Namek was considered to be a pretty remote planet, and it's entirely possible Beerus never visited them (why would he, they don't have any tasty food for him!) and so the Namekians never really knew about him.

so are gods in the Dragonball verse jobs or a state of being? both? either?

Depends on the god, but usually it's "both." All the gods get some sort of new power as a result of becoming gods (Kami/Dende/Kaio/etc. all get the whole "see things remotely within their range" thing, Kami could re-create the moon, Kaios can re-create their own planets, and then there's the Kaioshin thing of "causing new planets and stars to form" which we've heard mentioned but not actually seen yet.)

Super Saiyan God seems to be the only exception, as it's a state of being only and doesn't really have any job associated with it.

[RedRibbonSoldier#42]

Putting the fact, that godly ki was not thought of yet, aside - we do not know wether Goku could really sens Kaio's KI. Yes he did use instant transmission to the place he was at, but he could have detected as much as lifeforce itself (aka. genki) rahter than his Ki.

Is there a difference between "Genkai" and "Ki"?

[Sora Saiyan]

Putting the fact, that godly ki was not thought of yet, aside - we do not know wether Goku could really sens Kaio's KI. Yes he did use instant transmission to the place he was at, but he could have detected as much as lifeforce itself (aka. genki) rahter than his Ki.

Is there a difference between "Genkai" and "Ki"?

Here you go.

What’s the secret of winning in battle?
When it comes to battle, the most important thing is ki size, and its control. Of course, “ki” also includes such spiritual power as energy/vigor [genki] and bravery [yuuki], and being in one’s right mind [shouki; could also be translated as "true character"] (note 11). There’s a limit to physical strength, no matter how much you toughen it up, and the only way to overcome that it is with “ki”. I think that it was through turning ki into formidable power that Goku drew closer to being the strongest warrior in the universe.

Note 11: Genki and yuuki, shouki
The word “energy” [genki; also “health”, “vigor”, etc] is well known, but if you had an illness [byouki], would you not have energy? That’s difficult to answer. There are some people who have a healthy body but no energy, but there are also some people who are full of energy even when ill. What’s more, even with people who have about the same amount of power, there are some who, when attacked by Piccolo Daimao for instance, will stand firm and tough it out, while others will run away trembling in fear. If you think this way, you might understand how different kinds of “ki” are very important in battle. In the world of Chinese kenpo disciplines such as Tai Chi, much importance is placed on the training and control of ki.

Although in “DragonBall” the wizard Babidi had invented machines that measured and extracted “ki”, modern science is unable to measure “ki” or store it anywhere. However, there are times when people support you, and give you energy [genki] and courage [yuuki]. Though it can’t be seen, what is present then is “ki”.

[RedRibbonSoldier#42]

[quote="Sora Saiyan"
Here you go.

What’s the secret of winning in battle?
When it comes to battle, the most important thing is ki size, and its control. Of course, “ki” also includes such spiritual power as energy/vigor [genki] and bravery [yuuki], and being in one’s right mind [shouki; could also be translated as "true character"] (note 11). There’s a limit to physical strength, no matter how much you toughen it up, and the only way to overcome that it is with “ki”. I think that it was through turning ki into formidable power that Goku drew closer to being the strongest warrior in the universe.

Note 11: Genki and yuuki, shouki
The word “energy” [genki; also “health”, “vigor”, etc] is well known, but if you had an illness [byouki], would you not have energy? That’s difficult to answer. There are some people who have a healthy body but no energy, but there are also some people who are full of energy even when ill. What’s more, even with people who have about the same amount of power, there are some who, when attacked by Piccolo Daimao for instance, will stand firm and tough it out, while others will run away trembling in fear. If you think this way, you might understand how different kinds of “ki” are very important in battle. In the world of Chinese kenpo disciplines such as Tai Chi, much importance is placed on the training and control of ki.
That's fascinating and all, but doesn't help us determine what can be used for Instant Transmission.

Although in “DragonBall” the wizard Babidi had invented machines that measured and extracted “ki”, modern science is unable to measure “ki” or store it anywhere. However, there are times when people support you, and give you energy [genki] and courage [yuuki]. Though it can’t be seen, what is present then is “ki”.

That's fascinating and all, but it doesn't help us determine what can be used for Instant Transmission.

[Friezacooler]

Is this before or after Goku gained elders Kai life?

[Sora Saiyan]

RedRibbonSoldier#42 I was putting that quote there to show you what Genki is to Ki in case you were unsure.

[Polyphase Avatron]

I think a way to reconcile it is by saying that gods can either allow their ki to be sensed by mortals or not. People like Beerus and Whis don't let mortals sense them by default, but some other gods do.

[GokuRules987]

I don't think kais have godly ki though, they could sense them thru other methods though like special magic ball but i think beerus is a not a normal god and perhaps there will be a more backstory covering the whole subject of godly ki to know how it actually works and who actually has godly ki.

[Polyphase Avatron]

North Kaioh implies he can sense Beerus and refers to himself and Beerus as the same kind of being when explaining that Goku can't sense gods though, IIRC.

[Friezacooler]

Anyone gonna answer my previous question or what?

[Sandubadear]

Is this before or after Goku gained elders Kai life?

Before. Goku teleports to King Kai's planet since the Cell saga.

[Friezacooler]

Has Goku searched up king Kai's ki, before he went king Kai's planet? If he didn't does it not just mean he can trace places he is been before without ki sense? That sounds more logical unless he commented on sensing king Kai's ki which if I recall he never did even before God Ki was introduced

[Sandubadear]

If I'm not mistaken, the Yardrat teleport works as moving near a ki source. You can't teleport to an empty place because there aren't any ki to lock on. Goku also says in RF that he couldn't teleport to Beerus' planet because he can't sense their ki. He wouldn't be able to teleport to King Kai's unless he sensed his ki. Unless he uses Bubbles' or Gregory's ki, lol.

[Friezacooler]

It has to be Gregory and bubbles unless he can sense the nature's ki on Kai's planet.