Post
by Ninja Poe Bear » Fri Mar 24, 2006 6:15 am
Yeah, congrats for making your first topic. And I hope you accept my first post AND first reply in this forum. (Ironically, they use the same format as the forum I moderate.) But anyway, while I appreciate the fact you have put out a well though theory, I also have to make a disagreement on this.
Two factor's actually. One being the handling of the Super Saiyan forms, as well as the Mystic form. So starting with the Super Saiyan forms, I will be basing them on what Toei approved for the Dragon Ball Z RPG (the Frieza Saga book) and what Wikipedia says. And I will skip the non-canon stuff.
Saiyan Rage: This is not a form, but it is needed to achieve the Super Saiyan forms. It gives the Saiyan a x2 modifier, and needs to be both achieved and maintained.
Super Saiyan: This form, as detailed in the Frieza Saga book, this form give a power enhancement of x2.5, and this form needs to be in check. This means when a Saiyan hits that 5 million mark, and has the requirements, their power level will enhance to 12.5 million.
[Please note that all modifiers beyond this point will be based on the descriptions of each form. Also, it will be simplified by using the power level 5 million aspect.]
Super Saiyan 2nd Grade/Ascended Super Saiyan: This form allows the Saiyan to have more control by adding more power. The main aspect of this is the fact is the additional bulk the form develops, namely to compensate for the extra power they are able to control. There is a possability that this form boosts an additional x1.5 (atop of the previous x2.5).
Super Saiyan 3rd Grade/Ultra Super Saiyan: This form is the final stage, per say. Again, allowing the Saiyan to control more power by adding more bulk. But the bulk causes the Saiyan to slow down. Beyond that, it is no different than the previous form. There is a possability that this form boosts an additional x1.5 (atop of the previous x1.5).
Super Saiyan, Full-Power: This is the true version of a controlled Super Saiyan form. While they do not get more power that the previous two forms, this form is needed to achieve Super Saiyan 2.
Super Saiyan 2: Atop of the additional x2.5 (atop of the first x2.5), the possability of Saiyan Rage may be what needs to be controlled. This was first shown when Gohan had an attitude change against Cell. [Note: The Saiyan Rage could have been a minor set-back with Gohan, based on his nature at that time.]
Super Saiyan 3: Atop of the additional x2.5 (atop of the second x2.5), this was said to be a Super Saiyan form that taps into that hidden power reserve that all Saiyans have. Plus, it is believed that it can be achieved in a world like the "Chamber of Spirit and Time" (and the Afterlife). But due to extreme power boots, it is believed that this power not only restricts how much power a Saiyan can power up, but it also uses up power to reduce all strain that the Saiyan's body takes. [Note: This will also explain why Gotenks only achieves the form in 15 minutes, opposed to 30.]
Now there is the "Mystic" form (aka the "Ultimate" form). And please note that I am basing this on what Wikipedia says.
The form is the Saiyan's full potential that is pushed to it's maximum. This causes all Super Saiyan forms to become obsolete. This means that it could be the power that seperates Super Saiyan 2 from Super Saiyan 3. This could mean... Super Saiyan + Super Saiyan 2 + Saiyan Rage. Plus, this would explain why this form is easilly controlled and Gohan shows a lesser version of the "Saiyan Agression" that was shown when he achieved Super Saiyan 2.
In this case, it may go like this. And I hope this helps...
Saiyan: 5,000,000
Saiyan, with Saiyan Rage: 10,000,000
Saiyan: 5,000,000
Super Saiyan (x2.5): 12,500,000
Ascended Super Saiyan (x1.5): 18,750,000
Ultra Super Saiyan (x1.5): 28,125,000
Saiyan: 5,000,000
Super Saiyan, Full-Power (x2.5): 12,500,000
Super Saiyan 2 (x2.5): 31,250,000
Super Saiyan 3 (x2.5): 78,125,000
Saiyan: 5,000,000
Super Saiyan, Full-Power (x2.5): 12,500,000
Super Saiyan 2 (x2.5): 31,250,000
Mystic/Ultimate (x2): 62,500,000
[Note: If this is true, the form would not rival Super Saiyan 3 in power. But since it's a truely controlled form, it rivals that form due to the fact it has no duration.]
Also, rumor has it that Gohan had lost this power when he was absorbed by Super Buu. This may explain the changes that Toei had made when they had him go Super Saiyan in DBGT.
And as I said, I will not beyond the canon stuff. But if you do need a chart, Wikipedia has supplied one.
Giji Super Saiyan (Non-Canon) ->
Super Saiyan -> Super Saiyan 2nd Grade/Ascended Super Saiyan -> Super Saiyan 3rd Grade/Ultra Super Saiyan
Super Saiyan, Full-Power ->
-> Legendary Super Saiyan (Non-Canon)
-> Super Saiyan 2 -> Super Saiyan 3
-> Super Oozaru -> Super Saiyan 4 (Non-Canon)
So basically, I hope that helps you with your theory. I am not saying you are wrong, just that I am disagreeing with you. So i hope that by mean saying this, in the manner I said it, will cause problems.
And Hero 004, he never trained to achieve this form (Supreme Kai was training him to become more powerful). Elder Kai just did what Guru did in the Namek Saga... but at a greater degree. Namely, all he did was unlock the "level restrictions" that the forms had, as well as his "hidden power" (or Saiyan Rage). That part makes me wonder if Akira Toriyama wanted it to be Saiyan Rage, or Akira Toriyama forgot about the Namek part of his manga (he was corrected by a fan during the first or second "chapter" of his manga series. Also, there is a chance he was able to go Super Saiyan again, because of the fact he lost this power.
[b][coming soon.][/b]
. Therefore, you no longer need it.(Unless it is only for you to show off with.)
