Was Ultimate Gohan ever a good idea?

[Bulma's Foot Masseur]

"Ultimate" Gohan has been riddled with inconsistency ever since GT (often being forgotten entirely), but...was the form ever a good idea to begin with? Two decades ago it made Gohan stand out from the ever-increasing sea of Super Saiyans, but to someone who might be watching the series for the first time, the ability just seems confusing and offputting even when it is remembered. For instance, you have that one part of the Super intro where Gohan going "Ultimate" is sandwiched between his dad and brother going Super Saiyan, and it looks less like Gohan is transforming into something cooler and more like he's transforming into, well, nothing. And it makes me wonder what the appeal of the form ever was in the first place, especially when Gohan has such a sentimental connection to the Super Saiyan "image" with his famous Super Saiyan 2 transformation.

So...all of the post-DBZ TOEI inconsistency aside, does anyone else think that Ultimate Gohan was a bad idea from the start?

[Cipher]

I think it was a great idea. Anything that can be done to break up the visual monotony of the Super Saiyans is welcome.

If anything, I'd just let him keep it. GT was put into a difficult position by needing Baby to possess Vegeta, requiring him to be more powerful than Gohan (although he could have just stayed in Vegeta on a purely vindictive level, and let Gohan remain the stronger of the two without Baby's power up), but then he's eclipsed by Super Saiyan 4 anyway. In the newer material, he's radically outclassed by the new antagonists and Super Saiyan God forms, so it feels a bit unnecessary to have lost it by Resurrection F. But oh well.

[dbzfan7]

Yes and no. Yes because it allowed Gohan to use all that potential that's been hinted at forever, and not even need the standard SSJ form. This was a cool change for once a Super Saiyan form isn't the end all be all form. Instead it's a ritual that unlocked Gohan's potential. Also as said above going against the usual golden locks does give a nice breather while recolouring those golden locks blue is fucking stupid.

No because from a story stand point...what was really the point? We have his potential unlocked, only to mean absolutely nothing in a very short amount of time. Boo finds a way to win and Gohan is hereby thrown into the abyss forever. Honestly we probably coulda just skipped right to Vegetto vs Bootenks instead of wasting time with Gohan. It'd put an end to some issues people have recently surrounding the character if he never got the power up to begin with.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Maybe in the RoF arc of Super they can have Gohan still have the powerup, and beat Freeza in his 1st form, and only lose to him in his 4th form.

[fadeddreams5]

It was a terrible idea... from a design standpoint. There should have been some distinguishing feature that set it apart from Gohan's base form, such as light brown eyes or the green SSJ eyes, which he's actually shown with in one scene. And NO, gaining barely noticeable lines on his eyes does not count... at all. -.-

The form has or had potential to be something radically unique and cool if they thought outside the box a little in Super and gave it some special properties that allowed Gohan to catch up to SSJG with it without becoming one himself. Who knows... Maybe this will actually happen. But I sincerely doubt it, given his role in F.

[NitroEX]

They basically reused the idea for Super Saiyan God and people like that so it can't be a bad idea. The problem was Toriyama kept Gohan's hair the same throughout the Buu arc so there was no way to really distinguish it from base. Having spiked black hair would have been awesome if it had been his transformed state, you could have left his base form with a more relaxed haircut similar to Cell games Gohan or even Future Gohan.

Personally I love the idea of a form that allows him to surpass regular Super Saiyans. I think that type of idea had the potential to breath new life into the series if explored further. It could have given other characters an opening to be relevant again and with Uub and Pan on the way there was a lot of potential for growth. Instead what we got is them throwing away the mystic idea and regressing Gohan back into a boring Super Saiyan for no reason (and no, saying "he stopped training" isn't a reason).

[FoolsGil]

I do believe Ultimate Gohan was a bad idea, because for all his bluster, he still lost to Buu. You can throw in any excuse on Buu's end, but it still doesn't change that Gohan wasted everyone's time getting the transformation unlocked. Seriously, He was looking epic in his dad colors, even had a scene against Buu mimic Goku and Vegeta's starting fight... All of that, just an utter waste of time. If the end result was that, Then the whole 'unlock potential thing' should have been thrown out the window, and Gohan would have just came after Buu with the Z Sword. Then if he failed, at least he wouldn't get a super new transformation.

[Lord Beerus]

Ultimate Gohan was an ingenious concept because of how much it stood out in comparison to the leagues of Super Saiyans that had taken over the plot by then. It was Gohan's unique form as a result of him having all of his potential unlocked beyond its capabilities. It all sounds so great on paper. It just that Toriyama never made the effort to distinguish Gohan's Ultimate/Mystic Form from his base form.

[KentalSSJ6]

Ultimate Gohan was an ingenious concept because of how much it stood out in comparison to the leagues of Super Saiyans that had taken over the plot by then. It was Gohan's unique form as a result of him having all of his potential unlocked beyond it's capabilities. It all sounds so great on paper. It just that that Toriyama never made the effort to distinguish Gohan's Ultimate/Mystic Form from his base form.

I really dont see the trouble trying to discern the 2

[Lord Beerus]

Ultimate Gohan was an ingenious concept because of how much it stood out in comparison to the leagues of Super Saiyans that had taken over the plot by then. It was Gohan's unique form as a result of him having all of his potential unlocked beyond it's capabilities. It all sounds so great on paper. It just that that Toriyama never made the effort to distinguish Gohan's Ultimate/Mystic Form from his base form.

I really dont see the trouble trying to discern the 2

Gohan displaying a "serious" face was common in his base form:

Spoiler:

Now look at how he looks like when he's Ultimate Gohan:

Spoiler:

You see the issue?

I don't really see how his eyes or the expression on his face can discern from when he's in his Ultimate Form or in his base form. It's all down to the inconsistent character design and Toriyama just not caring at that stage.

[ekrolo2]

It's a great concept mired by two problems. 1) Toriyama really should've put a definitive "this is what it does and does not do" explanation to sink all the crazy speculation about and 2) he should've given it some distinguishing features from his base form such as the Super Saiyan eyes he displayed that one time he tried to transform or even lightning around the aura to show its power. Its especially become a problem since Goku & Vegeta's base form as of RoF completely identical to Gohan's ultimate state in terms of appearance.

[Doctor.]

It was a great idea from the start. A powered-up base form that distinguishes Gohan, who has always had ridiculous amounts of hidden potential, from everyone else, and he doesn't waste Ki unlike the Super Saiyan transformations. It also has a huge potential as form, it'd allow Gohan to train it and increase its power even more without the need for the SSG ritual.

The problem is that, for some mind-boggling reason, it's deemed too confusing for Toei and Toriyama and they just opt to ignore it most of the time.

[funrush]

The only thing I'm not super into is the whole "It unlocks all your potential" thing because I still subscribe to the idea that Gohan should easily be able to surpass Goku were he to give a shit about training, and capping him at the Buu arc kind of defeats that purpose. On the other hand, Grand Elder's potential buff wasn't really capping either, so it's safe to assume that this isn't ALL of Gohan's potential. I also wish they gave us more explanation as to what it is. Is it just a permanent state? Does going Super Saiyan boost his power but his "Ultimate" base is so strong it's just unnecessary? Or does going Super Saiyan do nothing at all?

[LuckyCat]

I think it was a cool concept but a rushed (and forgettable) execution. The main issue being that Ultimate Gohan has no signature moves. He fights Buu for a few pages and uses basic punches.

This issue really stands out when it comes to the games/merchandise. I think Ultimate Gohan has fewer unique moves/scenes than Radditz.

[mikey4111]

Ultimate Gohan was an ingenious concept because of how much it stood out in comparison to the leagues of Super Saiyans that had taken over the plot by then. It was Gohan's unique form as a result of him having all of his potential unlocked beyond it's capabilities. It all sounds so great on paper. It just that that Toriyama never made the effort to distinguish Gohan's Ultimate/Mystic Form from his base form.

I really dont see the trouble trying to discern the 2

Gohan displaying a "serious" face was common in his base form:

Spoiler:

He obviously isn't in his Ultimate form in that last picture with Piccolo.

Now look at how he looks like when he's Ultimate Gohan:

Spoiler:

You see the issue?

I don't really see how his eyes or the expression on his face can discern from when he's in his Ultimate Form or in his base form. It's all down to the inconsistent character design and Toriyama just not caring at that stage.

[Cipher]

I don't know why it needs to be distinguished. He's just ... really strong and not going Super Saiyan. In the series it's never even presented so much as a transformation as it is just him powering up like any of the other fighters do.

Its especially become a problem since Goku & Vegeta's base form as of RoF completely identical to Gohan's ultimate state in terms of appearance.

Because they're all just in base form. Their base forms just happen to be really, really powerful -- much more so than their Super Saiyan forms were previously.

[Kishido]

For me the worst power up in the whole manga...

What I find funny is that is the exact same power up as something he got at Namek... Just stronger and done longer... But people hail it as something new cuz it isn't Super Saiyan.

Oh wait... He is from time to time which makes think even more confusing

[B]

It was a great idea particularly because it ended up not really helping anything against Buu; all that unlocked power cannot compete with Gohan's true nature, which is not to fight. It's the perfect Dragon Ball "gotcha!" moment.

It was a bad idea for everybody involved to forget he had it, or to establish what really is the deal with him going Super Saiyan. I reconcile it with the idea it does nothing. Super Saiyan Ultimate Gohan and Ultimate Gohan are exactly the same in strength in ability.

[Zephyr]

Anything that deviates from that over-saturation of golden locks is a-okay in my book.

[ekrolo2]

I don't know why it needs to be distinguished. He's just ... really strong and not going Super Saiyan. In the series it's never even presented so much as a transformation as it is just him powering up like any of the other fighters do.

Its especially become a problem since Goku & Vegeta's base form as of RoF completely identical to Gohan's ultimate state in terms of appearance.

Because they're all just in base form. Their base forms just happen to be really, really powerful -- much more so than their Super Saiyan forms were previously.

True, but I still think giving it a somewhat different appearance from his base form would get rid of certain questions people are definitely going to bring up once Saiyan beyond God becomes a thing in Super. Adding in certain details also would've helped give the from a certain cool factor it sorely lacks.