Which of the 3 Major Villain Arcs Used Transformations Best?

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Lunatic Fringe
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Which of the 3 Major Villain Arcs Used Transformations Best?

Post by Lunatic Fringe » Wed Sep 02, 2015 9:44 pm

So the three most popular villains in the series, Freeza, Cell, and Majin Buu, aren't just most well known for bringing the heroes to their limits and being the final obstacle that needs to be surmounted, they're also known for transforming into beings that transcend the power of their previous forms. Some of the most famous moments revolve around everyone looking on in horror as either Freeza, Cell, or Buu goes to the next level. But out of their respective arcs, which one handled the transformations of those characters the best?

IMO, I'd probably have to go with Majin Buu. Subverting from popular tropes doesn't automatically mean that what you've presented is of superior quality from the norm but in its most recognizable form, transforming means the subject gets stronger. That's not the case when Buuhan regressed into Pure Buu, a form that while significantly weaker than his previous incarnation, is Buu in his most remorseless and chaotic form, meaning that if it can't be stopped, means a ceaseless rampage that can't be stopped by reason. This finds a way to make the stakes higher without simple my making the stronger. I also like the fact that unlike Freeza, unless he's absorbing someone, him getting stronger/weaker is completely out of his hands, making it easier to buy into the notion of the villain really being in a pinch since he didn't have an ace up his sleeve the whole time, again, unlike...Freeza. :problem:

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Re: Which of the 3 Major Villain Arcs Used Transformations B

Post by Soppa Saia People » Thu Sep 03, 2015 4:10 pm

Personally I like cell's the most. While the cell arc was a mess, cell was a great villan and the fact that ever transformation changed his personality is (mondo) cool.
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Re: Which of the 3 Major Villain Arcs Used Transformations B

Post by RedRibbonSoldier#42 » Thu Sep 03, 2015 7:42 pm

I like Cell arcs the best, then Freeza, then Boo. Cells transformations evolved his personality as well as his body and all the new Super Saiyan modes were varied and meaningful. Boo arc's transformations were basically absorb/fuse with everything that moves

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Re: Which of the 3 Major Villain Arcs Used Transformations B

Post by Lord Beerus » Thu Sep 03, 2015 8:51 pm

Freeza's transformation remain the best for me. Each form became more monstrous than the last, and then his final form ended up subverting so many expectation while remaining a brilliant and original design of its own. In my opinion, the Freeza arc was where Toriyama peaked in terms of creative character designs.

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Re: Which of the 3 Major Villain Arcs Used Transformations B

Post by ekrolo2 » Fri Sep 04, 2015 12:08 pm

I'll say Cells since he couldn't just pull them out of his ass but needed very specific criteria to happen, giving him a challenge he can't overcome just by himself. I'd put Freeza's if the power distribution between forms made any lick of sense. Seriously, why does he have four separate forms just to contain about 1% of his overall power? Wouldn't it make more sense for each transformation to let him use about a fifth or fourth of his complete power instead?
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Re: Which of the 3 Major Villain Arcs Used Transformations B

Post by LuckyCat » Fri Sep 04, 2015 12:19 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:Seriously, why does he have four separate forms just to contain about 1% of his overall power? Wouldn't it make more sense for each transformation to let him use about a fifth or fourth of his complete power instead?
It's funny, because I think one of the Daizenshuu's (4) says that Toriyama's favorite of Freeza's form is his third form. Yet it's extremely brief. Maybe since it crossed the bishonen line, one of Toriyama's superiors disapproved?

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Re: Which of the 3 Major Villain Arcs Used Transformations B

Post by Lunatic Fringe » Fri Sep 04, 2015 12:31 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:I'll say Cells since he couldn't just pull them out of his ass but needed very specific criteria to happen, giving him a challenge he can't overcome just by himself. I'd put Freeza's if the power distribution between forms made any lick of sense. Seriously, why does he have four separate forms just to contain about 1% of his overall power? Wouldn't it make more sense for each transformation to let him use about a fifth or fourth of his complete power instead?
Unfortunately, Cell becoming stronger in his arc is one parts resourcefulness and two parts his enemies practically gift wrapping him what he wants, which is almost as convenient as having it inherent the whole time.

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Re: Which of the 3 Major Villain Arcs Used Transformations B

Post by ekrolo2 » Fri Sep 04, 2015 12:34 pm

LuckyCat wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:Seriously, why does he have four separate forms just to contain about 1% of his overall power? Wouldn't it make more sense for each transformation to let him use about a fifth or fourth of his complete power instead?
It's funny, because I think one of the Daizenshuu's (4) says that Toriyama's favorite of Freeza's form is his third form. Yet it's extremely brief. Maybe since it crossed the bishonen line, one of Toriyama's superiors disapproved?
I know Toriyama constantly got hounded by his editor over designs during the Cell arc, its basically why Cell, 16, 17 and 18 were created in the first place. I don't know if he had any trouble like that for the Freeza forms though.
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Re: Which of the 3 Major Villain Arcs Used Transformations B

Post by fadeddreams5 » Fri Sep 04, 2015 1:21 pm

The Cell saga used them best, hands down.

I like the notion of Frieza transforming to sustain his ki. I mean, anyone should have expected Frieza to have a a form besides the one we were used to seeing throughout the Namek saga. However, I think they overdid it with the transformations. That third form, in particular, was very unnecessary. Still, I think the actual scenes of him transforming and the terror they evoked were satisfying.

Buu... was just fucking random. It was bad, imo. I'm glad he transformed because Fat Buu was lame as fudge, but the method was just strange. Fat Buu splits into Mr. Buu and Evil Buu. Evil Buu eats Mr. Buu to become Super Buu. Mr. Buu is removed from Super Buu and... he becomes Kid Buu? Wha? Absorbing other people was also a major asspull. Mind you, I liked the actual designs of his transformations, and I love Grey/Super and Kid Buu.

As for Cell, what made his transformations the best was the anticipation they created. We knew he would transform when he absorbed the androids--this is what the plot revolved over. It created a major sense of tension when he was near them, and when he got his way, the transformation tended to be dramatic and over-the-top. He's the only villain I'd put in a "Top 5 transformations" list before going perfect, at least in the Funimation dub. As much of an asspull his final transformation (Super Perfect) was, his return was terrifying and awesome as well.
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Re: Which of the 3 Major Villain Arcs Used Transformations B

Post by Man-Child » Fri Sep 04, 2015 1:26 pm

None of them are perfect, but I do appreciate Cell's the most for actually having that aspect define his character. Cell seeks to transform because his sole purpose is to perfect himself. Idk, that just seems more interesting than in Freeza's case, where he only changes to kill his enemies even easier, or in Buu's case, where they kinda just happen. Not that killing the others wasn't also Cell's intention, but his transformations seem to have more of a point as it's his prime motivation.
Last edited by Man-Child on Fri Sep 04, 2015 2:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Which of the 3 Major Villain Arcs Used Transformations B

Post by ekrolo2 » Fri Sep 04, 2015 1:37 pm

Lunatic Fringe wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:I'll say Cells since he couldn't just pull them out of his ass but needed very specific criteria to happen, giving him a challenge he can't overcome just by himself. I'd put Freeza's if the power distribution between forms made any lick of sense. Seriously, why does he have four separate forms just to contain about 1% of his overall power? Wouldn't it make more sense for each transformation to let him use about a fifth or fourth of his complete power instead?
Unfortunately, Cell becoming stronger in his arc is one parts resourcefulness and two parts his enemies practically gift wrapping him what he wants, which is almost as convenient as having it inherent the whole time.
That's the big problem of the entire arc: it relies on everyone being as dumb as possible for anything to happen in it.
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