Goku letting Vegeta live, better in the dub rewrite?

[precita]

This might sound crazy, but does anyone else prefer the dub's rewrite of the scene of Goku's dialogue to Krillin about sparing Vegeta's life at the end of the Saiyan saga?

In the original Goku flat out says the only reason he wants Krillin to let him go is so he can fight him again in the future. He even says its a selfish request, and Krillin tried to explain he and Nappa killed all their friends and hurt them, but Goku says because he's a Saiyan and he gets excited fighting someone stronger than him. I know Japanese Goku is like this, but it just feels wrong given 4 of their friends were killed, Gohan and Krillin were nearly killed, and Goku barely survived.

In the dub scene (talking about the redub), Goku tells Krillin to be merciful, and that it shows him that human beings are made of better stuff. He also talks about how Piccolo was one of their greatest enemies and tried to destroy the Earth, and how now he was their friend and sacrificed himself for Gohan, and that maybe Vegeta could change to. He says everyone should get second chances (which makes sense for Japanese Goku too, since he lets Nappa, Burter, Freeza, etc. all a chance to live after defeating them), and knows Vegeta could come back to Earth and kill everyone but he would be there to protect them.

Japanese Goku sounds not only selfish but just plain idiotic and tasteless because of his friends demise and his son nearly being killed, but dub Goku has a sense of pity, understanding and righteousness to him. I don't know, watching the dub scene gave me far greater emotion while the Japanese scene made me dislike Goku for being an idiot. I know its his character, but I feel like dub Goku made more sense here.

For the record here is the dub clip of Goku letting Vegeta live, just to see yourself:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxjawhwXDHQ

[Cipher]

No. The original dialogue there is hugely important to understanding Goku's character, being the first directly acknowledged instant of Goku coming to terms with his Saiyan heritage ("Maybe it's because I'm a Saiyan too, but I was excited"), which pays off on Namek, and one of the few times he directly acknowledges his flaw of preserving rivals and challenge over both his and others' safety (this actually starts at the end of the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai).

Goku is selfish in this regard. Changing the dialogue here is changing the character in a rather significant way.

Goku does believe in second chances, but he's basically lost to Vegeta here, who promises to return to destroy Earth in the near future. It's an incredibly reckless decision from any standpoint, and the original dialogue acknowledges it as such. Goku invokes mercy when dealing with weaker or non-threatening opponents, but he has a tendency to let even dangerous ones go if it'll provide excitement for him in some way, sometimes with a flimsy excuse, though that isn't the case here.

[precita]

No. The original dialogue there is hugely important to understanding Goku's character, being the first directly acknowledged instant of Goku coming to terms with his Saiyan heritage ("Maybe it's because I'm a Saiyan too, but I was excited"), which pays off on Namek, and one of the few times he directly acknowledges his flaw of preserving rivals and challenge over both his and others' safety (this actually starts at the end of the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai).

Goku is selfish in this regard. Changing the dialogue here is changing the character in a rather significant way.

Goku still says he's a Saiyan in the dub version too though, he just seems less selfish about it. Also this is the same Goku that was going to let Nappa live before, and he had no intention of ever fighting Nappa again.

[Cipher]

Goku still says he's a Saiyan in the dub version too though, he just seems less selfish about it. Also this is the same Goku that was going to let Nappa live before, and he had no intention of ever fighting Nappa again.

He's specifically acknowledging one of the flaws of the warrior side of his Saiyan heritage though.

I covered this a bit in an edit above, but his letting Nappa go is an act of genuine mercy, since Nappa is so far beneath him. Vegeta is still an enormous threat -- one Goku couldn't defeat at the time -- there's no way to frame letting him go other than as a selfish request. Vegeta himself says he plans to return to kill them.

Goku's original request to Kuririn is basically, "I'm sorry, but please let me gamble on being able to beat him next time. I don't want to see that power go to waste." Kuririn acquiesces, but it's important to note that in the following scene on Bulma's plane, he can't honestly tell anyone how Vegeta escaped.

[Ree]

both suck but at least the dub had better justification and Goku didnt look like a blind idiot.

[ABED]

both suck but at least the dub had better justification and Goku didnt look like a blind idiot.

Goku wasn't blind. He knew what he was asking for, it's dangerous but not stupid.

ANd how did the rewrite suck?

dub Goku has a sense of pity, understanding and righteousness to him. I don't know

That doesn't make it any less stupid. By showing him mercy, he's giving Vegeta the unearned. It's incredibly naive. At least in the true version, Goku doesn't delude himself, he knows what he's asking for, and in his defense, he doesn't lose rematches.

[Ree]

dangerous = stupid, its an endangerement to everyone.

why the original sucked: precita already explained it.
why the dub rewrite sucked: Vegeta did not deserve it and he would have killed everyone if he could which he tried to do earlier.

[s841]

I like the dub because it adds to "Superman Goku" lol

[ABED]

dangerous = stupid, its an endangerement to everyone.

why the original sucked: precita already explained it.
why the dub rewrite sucked: Vegeta did not deserve it and he would have killed everyone if he could which he tried to do earlier.

Danger isn't stupidity.

The original doesn't suck, it's in character and it's interesting. I don't get it. You guys complain if Goku is portrayed as too Supermanesque, but when he shows traits that are unique and far from Superman, it's stupid. You dont' have to agree with Goku, it's a matter of if the story is interesting. No, Precita, the rewrite doesn't make sense, it's not his character.

[Ree]

i never complained about Goku being a superman, ever.

[ABED]

i never complained about Goku being a superman, ever.

You in general, not you specific, hence the plural.

[fadeddreams5]

I would have preferred a combination of both. An emphasis of how killing Vegeta would make Krillin no better than him, and a nod at the saiyan fighting instinct thing.

[ABED]

I would have preferred a combination of both. An emphasis of how killing Vegeta would make Krillin no better than him, and a nod at the saiyan fighting instinct thing.

But killing Vegeta wouldn't have lowered Kuririn to Vegeta's level, he's fully justified as a matter of self defense and justice in killing Vegeta.

[Doctor.]

No, it's completely out of character and doesn't fit Goku's character at all. That scene established (or reinforced) Goku as a flawed person. The dubbed version is an insult to any Dragon Ball fan, and I can't fathom why that scene hasn't gotten the same amount of criticism as the "I am the hope of the universe" speech.

[ABED]

No, it's completely out of character and doesn't fit Goku's character at all. That scene established (or reinforced) Goku as a flawed person. The dubbed version is an insult to any Dragon Ball fan, and I can't fathom why that scene hasn't gotten the same amount of criticism as the "I am the hope of the universe" speech.

I do have a thought on that as I used to hold a similar opinion, but now I think that it's just not as silly sounding. Sure, it's not in character, not that most dub fans would've known for years, but it's not as goofy sounding as Goku's big speech on Namek.

[Man-Child]

As a kid, I preferred the dub's version of that scene because it seemed less selfish of the character, but getting to watch more of the original material, it's clear that the sub is just closer to how he actually is. Goku's love of fighting and shortsightedness does often leave the door open for many potential problems in the series. As it turns out, a lot of solutions as well, but that still doesn't change the actions of the character. Neither version of that scene make's Goku's decision seem smart, but at least the original is honest in showing that he has flaws.

[fadeddreams5]

I would have preferred a combination of both. An emphasis of how killing Vegeta would make Krillin no better than him, and a nod at the saiyan fighting instinct thing.

But killing Vegeta wouldn't have lowered Kuririn to Vegeta's level, he's fully justified as a matter of self defense and justice in killing Vegeta.

Eh. Vegeta didn't really kill anyone though (besides the guy that murdered all of Goku's friends). Besides, Goku was also merciful to Nappa and the Ginyu Force, who were such non-threats to him, they'd never serve him as good sparring partners.

No, it's completely out of character and doesn't fit Goku's character at all. That scene established (or reinforced) Goku as a flawed person. The dubbed version is an insult to any Dragon Ball fan, and I can't fathom why that scene hasn't gotten the same amount of criticism as the "I am the hope of the universe" speech.

To be fair, it's pretty consistent with Funi's version of the character. Maybe even the Toei movie version. Any fan watching will know Goku loves to fight without him reinforcing it through that selfish bit of dialogue.

[successoroffate]

Those are two different Gokus. Two different personalities. Or, if you want to make the argument flow then, What Goku says in the original japanese is canon while Funi's Goku dialogue is not.

[TheBlackPaladin]

You know, here's what I have always found interesting about that scene: either way, whether it's the original dialogue or FUNimation's revised dialogue, somebody seems out-of-character.

In the case of the re-written dub dialogue, it's Goku who's out of character. He's a strange, goofy, fighting-obsessed guy who absolutely would spare Vegeta for the sake of a rematch. Having said that, there's one thing about the whole thing that has always bothered me a little bit: Kuririn listening to Goku. I still have a bit of a hard time believing that Kuririn would not kill Vegeta just because Goku asked for a rematch. Keep in mind, he was plunging a sword straight towards Vegeta when Goku stopped him, so Kuririn was very close to killing Vegeta, and yet he didn't.......because Goku wanted a rematch?

The best argument I've heard that helps this strangeness work is that Kuririn listened because he feels indebted to Goku for playing a huge role in winning the fight, even if he wasn't the guy who struck the final blow. So one could argue that Kuririn only spared Vegeta out of gratefulness to Goku...but I still say that explanation is a little too weak. I think the scene would have been much, much more strongly constructed if it was Goku sparing Vegeta's life, rather than him asking Kuririn to.

Conversely, with the re-written dub dialogue, Goku is totally out of character, but I could see a plea for mercy meaning more to Kuririn. It even fits with Kikuchi's music, ironically enough. I remember when I first saw FUNimation's re-dub of this scene, with Kikuchi's music, and I didn't know how badly the dialogue was changed...and I thought it all made sense. The music was both very sad and happy at the same time, as if to say, "There's been enough death today, killing him won't bring any of our friends back, so let's not lower ourselves to his level...just let it go." To me, that's something that Kuririn would be infinitely more inclined to listen to.

Now, with all that said, FUNimation should have just stuck to the original dialogue, because that's what a dubbing company's job is, and thankfully they did do that for this scene in the Kai dub. I just think that, while it was not right for FUNimation to change the dialogue, their changed dialogue works with Kikuchi's score and is more of a convincing argument for Kuririn.

[precita]

No, it's completely out of character and doesn't fit Goku's character at all. That scene established (or reinforced) Goku as a flawed person. The dubbed version is an insult to any Dragon Ball fan, and I can't fathom why that scene hasn't gotten the same amount of criticism as the "I am the hope of the universe" speech.

Probably because this is the same Goku that gave Piccolo a senzu bean and showed him mercy at the end of Dragonball. The same Goku who spares Nappa's life, doesn't kill Recoome or Burter, was even willing to let Freeza go.

Dub Goku is only less selfish and less of a Saiyan warrior than his original counterpart, but Goku showing mercy because he believes people could change isn't out of character. It also makes more sense for Krillin to spare Vegeta himself rather than killing him.