Quick Question

Nyoibo · Post by **Nyoibo** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:49 am

Hi, I just received my DBZ BGM Collection CD box and I'm planning to enjoy it as much as I can. This is my first DB CD purchase and was wondering what's the bitrate of the tracks on the CDs?

PS - Thanks kenisu3000, it was you and your hard work on the tracklist who 'made me' buy this collection.

Post by **VegettoEX** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:14 am

CDs don't have bitrates. They're uncompressed. They're 44 kHz, but beyond that, yeah.

tarsonis · Post by **tarsonis** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 8:28 am

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought tracks on CDs were encoded at 320kbps.

Nyoibo · Post by **Nyoibo** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 11:01 am

VegettoEX wrote:CDs don't have bitrates. They're uncompressed. They're 44 kHz, but beyond that, yeah.

Cheers for the answer... Let me rephrase my question then. What's the closest bitrate to CD quality audio? I don't know why I'm asking, it's just my obsession to know little details, I guess...

Post by **VegettoEX** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 5:49 pm

tarsonis wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought tracks on CDs were encoded at 320kbps.

OK. You're wrong

.

320 kbps is simply the highest you can go with standard MP3 encoding. As I said before, CDs are uncompressed.

Nyoibo wrote:Cheers for the answer... Let me rephrase my question then. What's the closest bitrate to CD quality audio? I don't know why I'm asking, it's just my obsession to know little details, I guess...

Well, the higher the bitrate you encode at, the less compression is being given to the audio, which means it's closer to the original (uncompressed). That's the whole point of compression... throwing out bits of detail to bring down the filesize. The whole ratio of filesize/compression is all about how good it sounds with regards to how much sacrifice you want to make.

It also matters which audio codec you're using. Apple will argue that their 128 kbps AAC audio sounds the same as a 192 kbps MP3 (and I don't think I'd argue much with them). There are also things like FLAC that use a lossless compression (larger filesize, but absolutely no quality loss).

The "standard" in the "scene" has varied over the years. Back in 1998, 128 kbps MP3 was the standard. Around 2001, 192 kbps MP3 was the standard. Now-a-days, if it's being distro-ed as MP3, it's laughable to see anything other than variable-bitrate (which typically hovers in the 192-224 kbps range).

For another example, the maximum bitrate for Dolby Digital 5.1 surround sound on DVDs (encoded in AC-3) is 448 kbps.

tarsonis · Post by **tarsonis** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:53 pm

VegettoEX wrote:For another example, the maximum bitrate for Dolby Digital 5.1 surround sound on DVDs (encoded in AC-3) is 448 kbps.

So since this has a bitrate, would this mean that this sound is compressed as well? I'm under the assumption AC-3 is uncompressed (versus MP3 for example).

Post by **VegettoEX** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 8:17 pm

The audio on DVDs is typically compressed, yeah. AC-3 is just another form of audio compression (it just happens to almost exclusively be used in DVD encoding and authoring).

You'll typically see "uncompressed" referred to as "PCM" or the likes. A general Windows *.wav is also uncompressed.

kenisu3000 · Post by **kenisu3000** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 8:19 pm

Nyoibo wrote:Hi, I just received my DBZ BGM Collection CD box and I'm planning to enjoy it as much as I can. This is my first DB CD purchase and was wondering what's the bitrate of the tracks on the CDs?

PS - Thanks kenisu3000, it was you and your hard work on the tracklist who 'made me' buy this collection.

Excellent, I'm glad to help out another fan of the BGM (there's not enough of us around)! The more people buy this set, the better chance we have of Toei/Columbia putting out more BGM Collections from the series.
I'll be putting up a track-documentation of the BGM Collection soon (meaning it'll cover the different BGM pieces that show up on the tracks). I have all the information written down, I just need to type it out into HTML (oh, that eternal beast!). And then there's that episode-by-episode documentation that I need to work on more.
Looks like Mike already answered your bitrate question

Not that I know anything about bitrate anyway.
So, what's your favorite piece from the BGM Collection (or favorite that ISN'T on it)?

Nyoibo · Post by **Nyoibo** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 5:07 am

My favourite in this collection has to be Disc 3, Track #9 - i.e. Believe in Tomorrow (which is a We were Angels variation). I also love the track right after that - Son Goku is the strongest after all!, which happens to be one of my favourite battle tracks.

The one piece I like but I don't know whether is on the set or not is the piece of music that plays when Vegeta dies on Namek. I think it also plays when Piccolo dies to save Gohan.

It also matters which audio codec you're using. Apple will argue that their 128 kbps AAC audio sounds the same as a 192 kbps MP3 (and I don't think I'd argue much with them). There are also things like FLAC that use a lossless compression (larger filesize, but absolutely no quality loss).

I happen to use Sony's ATRAC3plus, which according to Sony themselves, delivers higher quality audio while keeping the size down. For example a 4min 192Kbps MP3 is 5Mb while a 4min 192Kbps ATRAC3plus is 4Mb.

kenisu3000 · Post by **kenisu3000** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 8:58 pm

Nyoibo wrote:My favourite in this collection has to be Disc 3, Track #9 - i.e. Believe in Tomorrow (which is a We were Angels variation). I also love the track right after that - Son Goku is the strongest after all!, which happens to be one of my favourite battle tracks.

The one piece I like but I don't know whether is on the set or not is the piece of music that plays when Vegeta dies on Namek. I think it also plays when Piccolo dies to save Gohan.

My favorite is "Coola's Multiplicity" on the Movie 6 suite (disc 2, track 8, next-to-last piece). However, my most listened-to disc is 3, since that one is absolutely loaded with pieces not found anywhere else. I was very pleased to find that "Goku's Final Genkidama Is Complete!!" is the opening piece on track 8. I've wanted that one for some time. And track 9 is one of my favorites as well, what with the 2-and-a-half-minute peaceful theme, not to mention two of the greatest ending-to-episode themes from the Boo saga. I love it! And tracks 16 and 18 get me all hyped up to see Movies 12 and 13 (I've ordered Movie 12 by mail, but it's taking forever to get here...)!

Nyoibo · Post by **Nyoibo** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 6:59 am

The second piece in Disc 3, Track #18 (Movie 13) is the Tapion Flute theme which I really love as well. It makes me want to go and watch the movie again.

I started collecting the Daizenshuu volumes last week and I had a thought. Why didn't they include information about the great background music and opening/closing themes for Dragon Ball (+Z) in one of the Daizenshuu? I mean it could have had something similar to the compendium you are doing.

kenisu3000 · Post by **kenisu3000** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 6:31 pm

I know! I'm still collecting the Daizenshu myself (all I need now is Vol. 6, and the supplemental TV Animation Part 3), and I had the same exact thought some months ago (which was part of what drove me into creating the BGM documentation). And if they had, there would almost definitely be a full BGM Collection, as it would look bad for them to indicate which pieces aren't on CD. I often wonder if they think they're fooling us, and that they don't feel obligated to put out a full collection because nobody's *really* aware of how many BGM pieces are missing (which is a grossly huge amount, though I won't be able to pinpoint exactly how many until I finish the project).
But as for information on the vocal songs, Daizenshus 3 and 5 contain the full-size lyrics for all the OP and ED themes, and Daizenshu 7 lists most of the CDs that were released, though not giving a tracklisting.

Nyoibo · Post by **Nyoibo** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 4:49 am

Until now I tracked down Daizenshuu 2 and 4. I asked the owner of the small online shop where I get them to try and track down #7 for me, which I'm expecting will be the most difficult to get. At least there's some good news then - I didn't know the lyrics to the themes were covered in any volume.

I often wonder if they think they're fooling us, and that they don't feel obligated to put out a full collection because nobody's *really* aware of how many BGM pieces are missing (which is a grossly huge amount, though I won't be able to pinpoint exactly how many until I finish the project).

Well, the CD set released in February was simply called "DBZ BGM Collection" which means it's nowhere close to being a complete collection. I'm still hoping we either get a Dragon Ball BGM collection (from the first series) or better still a complete collection spanning all episodes and movies for both series (DB + DBZ). But that's just me hoping and realizing that the chance of them releasing a 7 disc BGM set is near impossible.

kenisu3000 · Post by **kenisu3000** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 6:40 pm

Nyoibo wrote:Until now I tracked down Daizenshuu 2 and 4. I asked the owner of the small online shop where I get them to try and track down #7 for me, which I'm expecting will be the most difficult to get. At least there's some good news then - I didn't know the lyrics to the themes were covered in any volume.

Yeah... they also cover most of the pics from the OP and ED animations in 3 and 5, and give a bit-by-bit explanation of each. Well... there's a few shots missing from their analysis, but still, I thought it was cool. It makes me *really* want to see the second animations for "Makafushigi Adventure" and "Romantic Ageru Yo"!

Nyoibo wrote:Well, the CD set released in February was simply called "DBZ BGM Collection" which means it's nowhere close to being a complete collection.

Yeah, I was aware of that... when the cover pics for the CDs were first released, I saw simply "BGM Collection" (no "Complete") in the upper left-hand corner, and nearly had a panic attack. But then I told myself, "it's alright, all of the online stores call it the 'Complete BGM Collection', so that's got to count for something!" Apparently all it counted for was some kind of a rumor or something that must have spread like wildfire to make all the stores advertise it as being a complete set. Or maybe some mistake/false advertising on Columbia Japan's part.

Nyoibo wrote:I'm still hoping we either get a Dragon Ball BGM collection (from the first series) or better still a complete collection spanning all episodes and movies for both series (DB + DBZ). But that's just me hoping and realizing that the chance of them releasing a 7 disc BGM set is near impossible.

Ah, you forgot GT! Of course, that one was composed by someone other than Shunsuke Kikuchi (I forget his name), but that shouldn't be any excuse. Of course, between all three series, it would take (at an uneducated estimate) about 10 discs altogether, even if they were filled up to their threshold and done away with any vocal songs. What really fries me is that they've released more than enough BGM CDs to cover every last note of the music - it's just that they keep repeating pieces on each new CD! For this reason, I've come to absolutely hate a few pieces, like the 2-and-a-half-minute, ridiculously mundane, "Fighting The Possessed Piccolo" from Movie 2, as *every* collection seems to HAVE to have it even though it's one of the more boring pieces; and don't get me wrong - I love the 3-and-a-half-minute "Gathering Energy For The Genkidama" from Movie 7 just as much as the next person, but why does it have to be featured on THREE BGM CDs, as time-consuming as it is??

Nyoibo · Post by **Nyoibo** » Sat Apr 08, 2006 4:40 am

I didn't forget about GT... It's just I'm not too fond of it, and I prefer DB and DBZ music. It's not that I dislike the music itself but it makes me remember of the letdown GT was. There are a couple of GT tracks I'd love to have on CD like Dan Dan Instrumental for example.

If I recall correctly some of the GT BGM was released on the 10th Anniversary CD. Most music from that movie was used in GT.

Well, I don't know about them releasing a 10 CD BGM set. They still could release 3 new sets separately - one for DB, another for DBZ and a final one for GT. We could only see this happening if the Daizenshuu set was to be re-released.

And I do agree with your point that certain tracks are ALWAYS featured on each BGM CD while others (more than worth appearing) are completely left out. There's this piece during the Goku v.s Freeza fight which never appeared on CD. It's got a great battle-beat feeling to it. If I do have some time I might upload 10 seconds or so from the DVD, so you'll know which piece I'm referring to.

kenisu3000 · Post by **kenisu3000** » Sat Apr 08, 2006 9:48 am

Nyoibo wrote:I didn't forget about GT... It's just I'm not too fond of it, and I prefer DB and DBZ music. It's not that I dislike the music itself but it makes me remember of the letdown GT was. There are a couple of GT tracks I'd love to have on CD like Dan Dan Instrumental for example.

If I recall correctly some of the GT BGM was released on the 10th Anniversary CD. Most music from that movie was used in GT.

Well, I don't know about them releasing a 10 CD BGM set. They still could release 3 new sets separately - one for DB, another for DBZ and a final one for GT. We could only see this happening if the Daizenshuu set was to be re-released.

And I do agree with your point that certain tracks are ALWAYS featured on each BGM CD while others (more than worth appearing) are completely left out. There's this piece during the Goku v.s Freeza fight which never appeared on CD. It's got a great battle-beat feeling to it. If I do have some time I might upload 10 seconds or so from the DVD, so you'll know which piece I'm referring to.

If you name a scene it plays in, I can figure it out - either off the top of my head, or I can check my DVDs. The piece that comes automatically to my mind is one that was composed for the original DragonBall - it shows up quite a bit during the Freeza battle, most notably when Freeza realizes Goku's power just after his 10x Kaioken Kamehameha. It's this fantastic composition of booming drums to build suspense, and I've affectionately fan-titled it "Drums In The Deep" (forgive the Lord of the Rings reference...).
And yeah, *everybody* wants the instrumental "Dan Dan" (that is, if you're talking about the upbeat victory theme). I also wouldn't mind the recap/title card music and the Next Episode Preview theme.

Post by **VegettoEX** » Sat Apr 08, 2006 10:09 am

kenisu3000 wrote:And yeah, *everybody* wants the instrumental "Dan Dan" (that is, if you're talking about the upbeat victory theme). I also wouldn't mind the recap/title card music and the Next Episode Preview theme.

There's also a great "Hitori ja nai" instrumental I'd looooove... the scene in particular I think of is in the last episode when Goku visits with Kuririn on the beach at Kame House.

Nyoibo · Post by **Nyoibo** » Sat Apr 08, 2006 1:44 pm

...it shows up quite a bit during the Freeza battle, most notably when Freeza realizes Goku's power just after his 10x Kaioken Kamehameha. It's this fantastic composition of booming drums to build suspense, and I've affectionately fan-titled it "Drums In The Deep"

Yup, I think that's it. It's one of the most dramatic pieces in Dragon Ball (in my opinion). I'd love to get that on CD.

The Dan Dan I'm talking about is the one that's in Sparking! - I think it's used for the Super Cyborg 17 saga...

There's also a great "Hitori ja nai" instrumental I'd looooove... the scene in particular I think of is in the last episode when Goku visits with Kuririn on the beach at Kame House.

All the instrumentals used in Dragon Ball (DB, DBZ, DBGT) are great. The ones I love most are the Makafushigi Adventure ones. They were always used to either recap Goku's adventures or to put you in the mood for more Dragon Ball.

kenisu3000 · Post by **kenisu3000** » Sat Apr 08, 2006 2:39 pm

VegettoEX wrote: There's also a great "Hitori ja nai" instrumental I'd looooove... the scene in particular I think of is in the last episode when Goku visits with Kuririn on the beach at Kame House.

Oh, that one is fantastic! I had almost forgotten about it.

Nyoibo wrote: The Dan Dan I'm talking about is the one that's in Sparking! - I think it's used for the Super Cyborg 17 saga...

Does Sparking! use the BGM from the show??? The only DBZ game I've really played is Budokai 1.

Nyoibo wrote:All the instrumentals used in Dragon Ball (DB, DBZ, DBGT) are great. The ones I love most are the Makafushigi Adventure ones. They were always used to either recap Goku's adventures or to put you in the mood for more Dragon Ball.

Yes, yes! There's even a DragonBall scene where Goku is fighting youthful Piccolo Daimao and they use a Makafushigi Adventure arrangement (again, not on CD), and in the very next scene, Lunch hums the tune from the theme!

:)

Eclipse · Post by **Eclipse** » Sat Apr 08, 2006 6:32 pm

Well, the CD set released in February was simply called "DBZ BGM Collection" which means it's nowhere close to being a complete collection. I'm still hoping we either get a Dragon Ball BGM collection (from the first series) or better still a complete collection spanning all episodes and movies for both series (DB + DBZ).

Yeah. I'm hoping GT and Dragon Ball get a BGM collection released as well. I don't have the BGM Collection (Only the Best Song Collection), but I was still a little disappointed. Who knows, perhaps they just might release more!

Does Sparking! use the BGM from the show??? The only DBZ game I've really played is Budokai 1.

Yeah, Sparking! (and only Sparking!) uses the BGM from all 3 series.

Yes, yes! There's even a DragonBall scene where Goku is fighting youthful Piccolo Daimao and they use a Makafushigi Adventure arrangement (again, not on CD), and in the very next scene, Lunch hums the tune from the theme!

Yeah. There was also a Makafushigi Adventure arrangement in Movie 1 (where Goku and Piccolo are fighting the powered up Garlic Jr). I have NO idea if that is on CD or not, but I definately know it is on Sparking! (in case you read the message above)[/code]

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