Movie 2, 3 , 4 & 12 story

[apex_pretador]

All movie universes are based on canon, but these 3 were different. What do you think happened in these universes?

my ideas:

World's strongest:
- Roshi was stronger than gohan, so gohan training is not complete.
- Goku knows KK & Spirit bomb. So, he has trained with kaio.
- Oolong is so scared of piccolo that he's ko'd. So, piccolo turning good hasn't yet happened.
- Goku was troubled by someone who were having trouble with roshi, So, he's not anywhere near raditz.
- Piccolo was >= base goku

STORY: - Goku uses kintoulin to cross snake way , learns kaioken & siprit bomb and comes back.
Gohan has done basic training with piccolo , & then left free to come back
Piccolo has trained during all this time.
No kami training has started.

Tree of might:
- Goku is strongest, followed by piccolo & gohan
- Humans are alive.
- Piccolo is alive = DB's are alive = no going to namek

Goku arrived one day earlier , & with help, he defeated vegeta & nappa. Someone killed them.
They have trained since then & become stronger.

Slug:

- Base goku > piccolo > gohan
- Since neither vegeta , nor super saiyan is present, they never went to namek.

So, piccolo is not nail-fused. So, Slug is much weaker than 100x piccolo.

The best story is that no one went to namek, & the story continues from last movie, i.e. , after turles defeat, training , & later slug comes down to earth.

Fusion reborn:

- Fat janemba = greatest ki goku felt, but way weaker than SS3 goku. It was also stated that majin buu was able to force goku use SS3. So , goku defeated buu.
- Kids know fusion, but if they fused, they may be stronger than fat janemba, so if they even fused, they did AFTER goku left.

So, story is clear - after goku gets to kami lookout, he teaches kids fusion, & goes kills majin buu. Kids perfect the fusion after goku leaves to afterlife.

[dbgtFO]

All movie universes are based on canon, but these 3 were different.

What makes you say they were not based on canon?
The inconsistencies?

In any case it seems obvious that all the pre BoG movies were written without knowing what would happen later on and so they just assumed that the main threat would be taken care of somehow and the story would somehow return back to the status quo.
Movie 2 thus takes place after the Saiyan Arc(we have Gohan thinking back to Piccolo getting blasted by Nappa) with the assumption that everyone was brought back to life not long afterwards.
If we want it to make sense, Goku could have come back earlier just in time to give Piccolo a senzu and Chaozu, Yamcha and Tenshinhan might not have died due to alternate universe rules.
Movie 3 is the same with the characters having had time to train a bit more since movie 2, thus explaining the battle powers of Goku, Piccolo and Gohan far surpassing what they had in the Saiyan arc.
The same goes for Movie 4, where yet another timeskip has taken place.

Movie 12 assumes Majin Buu was taken care of one way or another without Goku coming back to life. Since Gotenks was supposed to take care of Majin Buu this could be what was assumed, when writing it.
If we want some other backstory, we could also say that Mr. Satan was succesful in calming Buu down after getting shot by those gunmen and so Super Buu never appeared. Buu's failure to appear in movie 12 can easily be handwaved.

[apex_pretador]

Movie 2 thus takes place after the Saiyan Arc(we have Gohan thinking back to Piccolo getting blasted by Nappa) with the assumption that everyone was brought back to life not long afterwards.
If we want it to make sense, Goku could have come back earlier just in time to give Piccolo a senzu and Chaozu, Yamcha and Tenshinhan might not have died due to alternate universe rules.

How do you justify:

goku having trouble with the fighters roshi could give fight to?
Or Roshi being stronger than gohan?
or piccolo being >= goku in base.
Or tien & yamcha not being with them
or no mention of saiyans being killed
Or oolong being KO'd by mere presence of piccolo

We know that roshi is 139 for sure, while other characters improved with time.

[dbgtFO]

How do you justify:

goku having trouble with the fighters roshi could give fight to?
Or Roshi being stronger than gohan?
or piccolo being >= goku in base.
Or Tenshinhan & yamcha not being with them
or no mention of saiyans being killed
Or oolong being KO'd by mere presence of piccolo

We know that roshi is 139 for sure, while other characters improved with time.

Simple, I don't try to justify any of it, seems too much of a hassle.
You're free to come up with scenarios to explain why those inconsistencies exist of course, but I don't see why I shouldn't just view this as events that'd happen, if everyone was brought back soon after the Saiyan Arc and life returned to normal.
Besides lack of mention of characters or events don't really prove anything. And I'm unsure why the Oolong point is important?

[apex_pretador]

How do you justify:

goku having trouble with the fighters roshi could give fight to?
Or Roshi being stronger than gohan?
or piccolo being >= goku in base.
Or Tenshinhan & yamcha not being with them
or no mention of saiyans being killed
Or oolong being KO'd by mere presence of piccolo

We know that roshi is 139 for sure, while other characters improved with time.

Simple, I don't try to justify any of it, seems too much of a hassle.
You're free to come up with scenarios to explain why those inconsistencies exist of course, but I don't see why I shouldn't just view this as events that'd happen, if everyone was brought back soon after the Saiyan Arc and life returned to normal.
Besides lack of mention of characters or events don't really prove anything. And I'm unsure why the Oolong point is important?

It feels closer to BoZ than vegeta battle.

Roshi being stronger than gohan straight up proves that gohan's training hasn't been completed.

Roshi giving the bio-warriors some trouble indicates that they are at best kami / 23rd TB goku level.

Goku was having a lot of trouble with them, so he simply can't be nappa++ level.

Goku was at best , even with piccolo.

Oolong point is worth mentioning because piccolo hasn't turned "hero" yet.

[dbgtFO]

Well the Vegeta and Nappa battle did happen prior to movie 2 as Gohan(during his song) references the point Piccolo stepped in to protect him from Nappa's blast.
Also if Oolong was to meet up with post Saiyan Arc Piccolo, I don't see why it wouldn't make sense he'd be afraid of him. The last time he saw him was at the 23rd Tournament, so it'd be natural to still fear him, even if he'd heard from others that he was beginning to become a good guy.

[apex_pretador]

Well the Vegeta and Nappa battle did happen prior to movie 2 as Gohan(during his song) references the point Piccolo stepped in to protect him from Nappa's blast.
Also if Oolong was to meet up with post Saiyan Arc Piccolo, I don't see why it wouldn't make sense he'd be afraid of him. The last time he saw him was at the 23rd Tournament, so it'd be natural to still fear him, even if he'd heard from others that he was beginning to become a good guy.

But roshi wasn't much weaker than the bio fighters, who weren't much weaker than goku either.

Also, roshi being stronger than gohan.


If roshi was saiyan saga piccolo level, I'd agree on this movie being post saiyan battle.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Roshi isn't stronger than Gohan in Movie #2.

Gohan just got knocked out by the Biomen because he wasn't ready. Towards the end, both Gohan and Piccolo were able to do some good damage on Dr. Uiro before he did his Planet Geyser attack. The combined Kamehameha from the others was totally ignored.

[Kamiccolo9]

Well the Vegeta and Nappa battle did happen prior to movie 2 as Gohan(during his song) references the point Piccolo stepped in to protect him from Nappa's blast.
Also if Oolong was to meet up with post Saiyan Arc Piccolo, I don't see why it wouldn't make sense he'd be afraid of him. The last time he saw him was at the 23rd Tournament, so it'd be natural to still fear him, even if he'd heard from others that he was beginning to become a good guy.

But roshi wasn't much weaker than the bio fighters, who weren't much weaker than goku either.

Also, roshi being stronger than gohan.


If roshi was saiyan saga piccolo level, I'd agree on this movie being post saiyan battle.

It doesn't really matter if you "agree" or not.

The movie itself references Nappa killing Piccolo. Unless Gohan is psychic, and predicting the future (he's not), then that means the movie has to take place after the Saiyan Arc, or at least the Nappa fight. You can't just ignore the story for the sake of making power levels "fit."

[apex_pretador]

It doesn't really matter if you "agree" or not.

The movie itself references Nappa killing Piccolo. Unless Gohan is psychic, and predicting the future (he's not), then that means the movie has to take place after the Saiyan Arc, or at least the Nappa fight. You can't just ignore the story for the sake of making power levels "fit."

But piccolo is alive!

Gohan got precog? Maybe , but roshi is clearly shown to be stronger than calm gohan. Also , roshi troubled those fighters , who goku was having problem with. Roshi isn't even worth of one-shot material for nappa level.

Roshi isn't stronger than Gohan in Movie #2.

Gohan just got knocked out by the Biomen because he wasn't ready. Towards the end, both Gohan and Piccolo were able to do some good damage on Dr. Uiro before he did his Planet Geyser attack. The combined Kamehameha from the others was totally ignored.

But someone on Tao's level isn't knocking out someone on raditz level.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

It can happen if they're relaxed and not ready to fight.

Gohan and Piccolo were able to stun Uiro despite him knowing they were coming for him. Piccolo told Gohan to focus and attack, showing that he was aware of what he could do. If Roshi fought a Gohan that was actually ready to fight, he'd have his ass handed to him.

[apex_pretador]

It can happen if they're relaxed and not ready to fight.

Gohan and Piccolo were able to stun Uiro despite him knowing they were coming for him. Piccolo told Gohan to focus and attack, showing that he was aware of what he could do. If Roshi fought a Gohan that was actually ready to fight, he'd have his ass handed to him.

Spoiler:

???

[Hellspawn28]

Toriyama views the old movies as stories set in different dimensions. Movie 2 is likely set in a timeline where Piccolo didn't die from Nappa and they decided to wait another year to wish back everyone. Movie 3 is set in a timeline where Goku was not late and no one dies. Movie 4 could happen in a timeline where Piccolo kills Freeza and Vegeta while everyone else on King Kai's planet chooses to stay dead. It can explain why Yamcha, Tien, Chaozu and Vegeta was never seen or mention in DBZ Movie 4.

[emperior]

I thought in Fusion Reborn Gohan was the one to kill Buu, that's why Goten and Trunks can fuse. If Goku defeated Buu, Kids wouldn't need to learn fusion.

[apex_pretador]

I thought in Fusion Reborn Gohan was the one to kill Buu, that's why Goten and Trunks can fuse. If Goku defeated Buu, Kids wouldn't need to learn fusion.

But fat janemba was biggest ki goku ever felt, & he could feel gohan's ki if he was the one to defeat buu. Also, SS3 goku was MUCH stronger than fat janemba, who was the biggest ki ever felt.
.
Or gohan was just post Z sword training & him + SS gotenks did it?

[Darkton]

Obviously the movies aren't meant to follow continuity, being designed for what was relevant at the latest episode of the anime. But if I had to guess...

Movie 2 probably has its split when Piccolo dies. In this continuity, Goku shows up in time to hand him a Senzu, saving him. It's not too improbable, given that Kurilin had his bones broken by Reacoom and survived with a Senzu.

Movie 3 splits at the beginning of the Saiyan's invasion. Goku is able to come back in time for whatever reason and beat the Saiyans. The Yamcha Kaio logo does throw it off a little, but as far as I'm concerned it's semantics.

Movie 4, then, takes place in either of the above times.

Movie 12 is likely set in a time where either Gotenks defeated Boo, or where Mr. Satan successfully rehabilitated him and Van Zant didn't do too much damage. That means the Old Kaioshin had no reason to give up his life for Goku, but it does mean Vegeta and Goku stay dead because they were revived once with Earth's Dragon Balls.

Now the big one is something not mentioned in the title: Movie 6. Likely it takes place in a time where Piccolo fuses with Kami to defeat the Artificial Humans (who could've been 19 and 20 or 17 and 18) and Dende is named guardian of the Earth. Trunks, then, has little reason to come back, and Cell probably hasn't gone back in time, though he'll be waiting for the End of Z cast....

[apex_pretador]

Movie 2 probably has its split when Piccolo dies. In this continuity, Goku shows up in time to hand him a Senzu, saving him. It's not too improbable, given that Kurilin had his bones broken by Reacoom and survived with a Senzu.

Now the big one is something not mentioned in the title: Movie 6. Likely it takes place in a time where Piccolo fuses with Kami to defeat the Artificial Humans (who could've been 19 and 20 or 17 and 18) and Dende is named guardian of the Earth. Trunks, then, has little reason to come back, and Cell probably hasn't gone back in time, though he'll be waiting for the End of Z cast....

M-2 being a time where piccolo eats senzu seems OK, but only if it didn't have the inconsistencies :
- Roshi > gohan
- Bio warriors are nappa level or kami level?
- Piccolo >= base goku

Also, if I'm not mistaken, M6 SS were stronger than piccolo. So, he can't be kamiccolo .
Maybe goku did bring out dende to become god so that even if piccolo dies , DB's are safe?

[Darkton]

Movie 2 probably has its split when Piccolo dies. In this continuity, Goku shows up in time to hand him a Senzu, saving him. It's not too improbable, given that Kurilin had his bones broken by Reacoom and survived with a Senzu.

Now the big one is something not mentioned in the title: Movie 6. Likely it takes place in a time where Piccolo fuses with Kami to defeat the Artificial Humans (who could've been 19 and 20 or 17 and 18) and Dende is named guardian of the Earth. Trunks, then, has little reason to come back, and Cell probably hasn't gone back in time, though he'll be waiting for the End of Z cast....

M-2 being a time where piccolo eats senzu seems OK, but only if it didn't have the inconsistencies :
- Roshi > gohan
- Bio warriors are nappa level or kami level?
- Piccolo >= base goku

Also, if I'm not mistaken, M6 SS were stronger than piccolo. So, he can't be kamiccolo .
Maybe goku did bring out dende to become god so that even if piccolo dies , DB's are safe?

I realize it's not perfect, but there's also matters of TOEI forgetting. They seemed to forget Gods couldn't kill themselves in Dead Zone, for instance. I just say the characters are as strong as they need to be.

Do like the Dende theory, though.

[ZombieVito]

Movie 2 probably has its split when Piccolo dies. In this continuity, Goku shows up in time to hand him a Senzu, saving him. It's not too improbable, given that Kurilin had his bones broken by Reacoom and survived with a Senzu.

Now the big one is something not mentioned in the title: Movie 6. Likely it takes place in a time where Piccolo fuses with Kami to defeat the Artificial Humans (who could've been 19 and 20 or 17 and 18) and Dende is named guardian of the Earth. Trunks, then, has little reason to come back, and Cell probably hasn't gone back in time, though he'll be waiting for the End of Z cast....

M-2 being a time where piccolo eats senzu seems OK, but only if it didn't have the inconsistencies :
- Roshi > gohan
- Bio warriors are nappa level or kami level?
- Piccolo >= base goku

Also, if I'm not mistaken, M6 SS were stronger than piccolo. So, he can't be kamiccolo .
Maybe goku did bring out dende to become god so that even if piccolo dies , DB's are safe?

This is stated or shown nowhere in the film.

[IDreamtIWasABee]

I thought in Fusion Reborn Gohan was the one to kill Buu, that's why Goten and Trunks can fuse. If Goku defeated Buu, Kids wouldn't need to learn fusion.

Movie 12 takes place (or at least fits snugly) while Fat Boo is living with Satan; instead of the days (or less than a day?) implied in the manga, Boo and Satan live together for long enough for Gohan to come home, the kids to master Fusion but not SSJ3, and Vegeta to stay dead.