GT Power Levels explain DB Super

[TheMikado]

After some thought I believe Goku's incredible base power level in GT makes sense if the events of BotG and RoF took place.
From GT we know that Goku > Rildo >/= Buu >/= SSj3, meaning we know base Goku is at least stronger than SSJ3.
Based off of BotG we know the only form stronger than SSJ3 (Outside of SSJ4) is SSJG and that once they have it mastered they basically look normal.

So What happened and how can the events of Super and GT be true?
Here is my personal theory.

During the events of Super, Vegeta and Goku were able to master the SSJB form causing it to appear as regular SSJ.
The only difference is that their base power levels were substantially higher.
I believe at some point they will go SSJ4 mostly due to the counterpart Saiyans not having tails in universe 7. This would give them an edge.
I also believe this because I think Vegeta will become, or attempt to become the new god of destruction with Goku acting as Whls in one of the other universes.
Whatever they end up doing in the other universes will eventually all go south causing galaxy/planet swaps etc.
In an attempt to correct everything Whis will try to stop the saiyans from using their powers in the future but unfortunately cannot remove their power.
The only thing he can do is wipe their memory of being Gods and hope that they never discover their full potential.

Bonus round: I think Piccolo will become a Namekian God. This is due to having the Super Dragon Balls which call forth a Super God Dragon. These would likely have to have been created by and in the future managed by a Namekian God character, to which Piccolo would be the prime candidate.

Anyway. The fact that God is so strong in base form in GT makes since if the events of DB Super actually did occur but they have no memory of it.

[Khin]

Super and GT and can't be in the same continuity because :

- In Super,Beerus and SSjG Goku's fight threatened the entire Universe while if Beerus and Champa were to fight,they could potentially destroy Universe 6 and 7.Nothing in GT come even close to that.
- Kibito desuses is Super,although it didn't happen yet in the anime.I doubt Toyotaro will do random shit like that.
- No mention whatsoever in GT for Whis/Beerus/Champa/Vados or the Champa tournament or any of the U6 Tournament combatants or Monaka.
- How the hell does a random alien in GT (Rildo) is as the same league as Beerus ? Why didn't Beerus fight him instead of Goku ?
- Freeza didn't transform into his Golden form in Hell and he's not in cocoon either.

I will add more later.

[apex_pretador]

You know that base goku (RoF) > SS4 gogeta ?

[emperior]

stop it, GT is non canon

[Pocket-God]

You know that base goku (RoF) > SS4 gogeta ?

This is one of the most retarded sentences I've seen on this site .-.

[Mnich]

I think you can count GT as an alternate timeline. Future Trunks created several timelines by traveling in time, so it is possible that GT is set where Beerus doesn't woke up (probably never talked with Oracle Fish about SSJG), and Freeza was not ressurected. If we are talking about power levels and why Goku is as strong (maybe stronger) as Majin Buu - If I remember correctly GT is set 5 years after EOZ, so it's 15 years since Buu was defeated. I guess Goku could train very, very hard to become powerful as he is in GT.

I can't find any other explanation. Some time ago I thought that maybe something had absorbed Goku's (and Vegeta's) God power, so he can't use it in GT, but I think it won't happen.

[apex_pretador]

You know that base goku (RoF) > SS4 gogeta ?

This is one of the most retarded sentences I've seen on this site .-.

Seriously?
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... =8&t=25425

Here you go. Now this is what you must call

This is one of the most retarded sentences I've seen on this site .-.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

You know that base goku (RoF) > SS4 gogeta ?

In your opinion.

[apex_pretador]

You know that base goku (RoF) > SS4 gogeta ?

In your opinion.

Well, this is my opinion, but Beerus >> SS4 gogeta is a fact.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

You know that base goku (RoF) > SS4 gogeta ?

In your opinion.

Well, this is my opinion, but Beerus >> SS4 gogeta is a fact.

No, that's also your opinion.

[apex_pretador]

No, that's also your opinion.

SS4 gogeta is no more than 20x SS4 vegeta.

SS3 vegetto (buu) >= SS4 (Shadow dragon) > SS4 (baby arc) ~ = SS vegetto (buu arc)

Beeurs (wayyyy less than 10%) >= SS3 vegetto (BoG) >>> SS3 vegetto (buu arc) >> SS vegetto

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

SS4 gogeta is no more than 20x SS4 vegeta.

This is your opinion.

SS3 vegetto (buu) >= SS4 (Shadow dragon) > SS4 (baby arc) ~ = SS vegetto (buu arc)

This is also your opinion.

Beeurs (wayyyy less than 10%) >= SS3 vegetto (BoG) >>> SS3 vegetto (buu arc) >> SS vegetto

And again, your opinion.

All you're giving me is assumptions based on your own interpretation. Nothing you said is objective, and I don't agree with any of it.

[apex_pretador]

SS4 gogeta is no more than 20x SS4 vegeta.

This is your opinion.

This is an implication based on fight. Omega was like 7x or 8x SS4 goku / vegeta, and gogeta was manhandling him, but the gap wasn't like 5x or so. Omega even survived gogeta's best attack.
At best 2.5x gap.

SS3 vegetto (buu) >= SS4 (Shadow dragon) > SS4 (baby arc) ~ = SS vegetto (buu arc)

This is also your opinion.

It has been stated in a guidebook a.k.a. GT perfect file that Super vegetto >= SS4.

Anyways, it can also be proven by powerscaling.

Beeurs (wayyyy less than 10%) >= SS3 vegetto (BoG) >>> SS3 vegetto (buu arc) >> SS vegetto

And again, your opinion.

All you're giving me is assumptions based on your own interpretation. Nothing you said is objective, and I don't agree with any of it.

GOKU :I think I will need to merge with vegeta, but even that will not work
later...
BEERUS :It has been a really long time since I've used "ANYWHERE NEAR" 10% of my power.

Everyone (when vegeta angers) : Unbelievable, he surpassed even goku !!!
implying that goku was the #1 before.

So, by goku's comment , Beerus (Much less than 10%) >= SS3 vegetto (BoG) >> SS3 vegetto (buu arc)

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

This is an implication based on fight. Omega was like 7x or 8x SS4 goku / vegeta, and gogeta was manhandling him, but the gap wasn't like 5x or so. Omega even survived gogeta's best attack.
At best 2.5x gap.

The bolded parts are assumptions.

It has been stated in a guidebook a.k.a. GT perfect file that Super vegetto >= SS4.

Anyways, it can also be proven by powerscaling.

The Perfect Files don't say that.

Why are you using your own arbitrary power scaling to prove a point? I can just as easily say that I can "prove" that Vegetto isn't that strong with my power scaling.

GOKU :I think I will need to merge with vegeta, but even that will not work
later...
BEERUS :It has been a really long time since I've used "ANYWHERE NEAR" 10% of my power.

Everyone (when vegeta angers) : Unbelievable, he surpassed even goku !!!
implying that goku was the #1 before.

So, by goku's comment , Beerus (Much less than 10%) >= SS3 vegetto (BoG) >> SS3 vegetto (buu arc)

Goku's comment on fusion not working was based on his expectation for Beers' full power (he knew Beers wasn't using his full power), so that's a moot argument.

[apex_pretador]

This is an implication based on fight. Omega was like 7x or 8x SS4 goku / vegeta, and gogeta was manhandling him, but the gap wasn't like 5x or so. Omega even survived gogeta's best attack.
At best 2.5x gap.

The bolded parts are assumptions.

Syn shenron x 10 = omega. Syn was easily handled by goku = vegeta. SO, Omega = 7-8x SS4 at best.
Actually, Omega vs SS4 gogeta gap wasn't THAT MUCH larger than SS4 vs syn , and definitely not as big as Omega vs SS4 goku / vegeta.
Omega surviving SS4 gogeta's best attack is a big deal.

It has been stated in a guidebook a.k.a. GT perfect file that Super vegetto >= SS4.

Anyways, it can also be proven by powerscaling.

The Perfect Files don't say that.

Spoiler:

Why are you using your own arbitrary power scaling to prove a point? I can just as easily say that I can "prove" that Vegetto isn't that strong with my power scaling.

Vegetto as a SS tanked everything buuhan could offer. He was ripping him apart as a CANDY !
Actually,you can't prove me wrong by my powerscaling. Try if you wish to.

GOKU :I think I will need to merge with vegeta, but even that will not work
later...
BEERUS :It has been a really long time since I've used "ANYWHERE NEAR" 10% of my power.

Everyone (when vegeta angers) : Unbelievable, he surpassed even goku !!!
implying that goku was the #1 before.

So, by goku's comment , Beerus (Much less than 10%) >= SS3 vegetto (BoG) >> SS3 vegetto (buu arc)

Goku's comment on fusion not working was based on his expectation for Beers' full power (he knew Beers wasn't using his full power), so that's a moot argument.

So, pure assumption on your part?
Goku can't sense beerus.
Goku didn't know beerus was suppressed before he told everyone.


Goku flat out states that he couldn't even believe that this realm of power IS EVEN POSSIBLE !

So, SSG is unimaginably stronger than SS3 vegetto.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

First of all, I'll go by XenoVerse, which states that the GT timeline is a different one from the Z/Super timeline, like Future Trunks' timeline.

Based on feats & statements (including guidebooks), and my opinion, this is how I think that the Z/GT/Super fighters compare to each other:

Spoiler:

Whis
Beerus
Golden Freeza
SSB Goku [FnF]
SSB Vegeta [FnF]
Base Goku [FnF]
Base Vegeta [FnF]
SSG Goku [BoG]
Final Form Freeza [FnF, post-training]
SS4 Gogeta
Super Yi Xing Long
SS3 Vegetto
SS2 Vegetto
Enraged Vegeta [BoG]
SS4 Goku [beyond limits]
Yi Xing Long
Super Vegetto
SS4 Goku
SS4 Vegeta
Super Oob
SS3 Goku [GT]
Base Goku [GT]
Base Vegeta [GT]
Oob [GT]
SS Gohan [GT]
SS Trunks [GT]
SS Goten [GT]
Ultimate Gohan [GT]
Ultimate Gohan [Z]
SS3 Gotenks [Z]
SS3 Goku [Z]

After Goku became a Super Saiyan God, with the help of 5 other Saiyans, against Beerus, he managed to absorb its power through their fight & made it his own, which decreased his power insignificantly, making his SS & SSG transformations useless. The only way to become significantly stronger was by becoming a Super Saiyan Blue.
Vegeta managed to obtain the power of Super Saiyan God as well, reaching Goku's level in his base form, and also became able to become a Super Saiyan Blue. However, he didn't do that like Goku. Instead of becoming a Super Saiyan God with the help of others & absorbing its power, he did ki control training under Whis for 6 months.

But how did Vegeta become so strong against Beerus in BoG? Why are the base Saiyans in GT so powerful? Why can Ultimate Gohan become a Super Saiyan?

This is my theory: Whis told Vegeta that if he can learn how to control his ki, he would be able to reach Goku's level, which he did. I don't believe that Whis pulled that from his ass, I believe that he came to that conclusion after seeing Vegeta's rage boost. Vegeta could become so powerful by drawing out some of his SSG dormant powers, but he couldn't control that power. He learned how to control that power through Whis' special training, and he managed to draw out all of the SSG dormant powers in his base form.

But what do the GT Saiyans have to do with this? They never had Whis or SSG. Goten & Trunks told Goku that they would train after the 28th Tenkaichi Budokai, and according to the GT Perfect Files, Gohan restarted his training as well before GT, but they obviously haven't trained hard enough. Goku & Vegeta never stopped training, obviously. I believe that through their training, they managed to begin drawing out their SSG dormant powers, which is why they made such insane gains, and why SS gives the old x50 boost to Gohan once again. However, they are nowhere near close to the full power of Super Saiyan God even in their Super Saiyan 4 forms & their transformations still give them the normal increases, since they have don't even know about the existence of SSG, so they aren't even aware that they have scratched the surface of some special power.

[apex_pretador]

Spoiler:

Whis
Beerus
Golden Freeza
SSB Goku [FnF]
SSB Vegeta [FnF]
Base Goku [FnF]
Base Vegeta [FnF]
SSG Goku [BoG]
Final Form Freeza [FnF, post-training]
SS4 Gogeta
Super Yi Xing Long
SS3 Vegetto
SS2 Vegetto
Enraged Vegeta [BoG]
SS4 Goku [beyond limits]
Yi Xing Long
Super Vegetto
SS4 Goku
SS4 Vegeta
Super Oob
SS3 Goku [GT]
Base Goku [GT]
Base Vegeta [GT]
Oob [GT]
SS Gohan [GT]
SS Trunks [GT]
SS Goten [GT]
Ultimate Gohan [GT]
Ultimate Gohan [Z]
SS3 Gotenks [Z]
SS3 Goku [Z]

I agree with this, especially the top half. Where do you have buuhan anyways?

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Syn shenron x 10 = omega. Syn was easily handled by goku = vegeta. SO, Omega = 7-8x SS4 at best.

Episode 59
Time: 5m30s
Yi Xing Long: “This is an unbelievable power up, even if I do say so myself. I’m ten times greater than before…perhaps even more! Not being able to see it, you might not believe it, but just by using the slightest power, everything around has been blown away!”

Super Yi Xing Long is perhaps even more than 10x stronger.

Actually, Omega vs SS4 gogeta gap wasn't THAT MUCH larger than SS4 vs syn , and definitely not as big as Omega vs SS4 goku / vegeta.
Omega surviving SS4 gogeta's best attack is a big deal.

He survived because he can regenerate.

Spoiler:

That's not from the Perfect Files. Furthermore, it can be interpreted as a general Super Saiyan 4 vs. Potara comparison. Given statements in the actual show, Vegetto being that strong is questionable at best.

Vegetto as a SS tanked everything buuhan could offer. He was ripping him apart as a CANDY !

And who says SS4 Goku can't do that? Or even Super Vegeta-Baby?

Actually,you can't prove me wrong by my powerscaling. Try if you wish to.

SS Vegetto >= SS4 Goku (GT) > SS3 Goku (GT) > SS2 Goku (GT) > SS Goku (GT) Base Goku (GT) > Base Gohan (GT) > Ultimate Gohan

For that chain to be true, Base Vegetto would have to be multiple times stronger than Ultimate Gohan and by extension Gohan-Boo. Try justifying Vegetto using Super Saiyan if that's the case.

So, pure assumption on your part?
Goku can't sense beerus.
Goku didn't know beerus was suppressed before he told everyone.

Goku asked Beers to see "just a little bit" of his power, or something along those lines. At least in the movie version.

Goku flat out states that he couldn't even believe that this realm of power IS EVEN POSSIBLE !

So, SSG is unimaginably stronger than SS3 vegetto.

I don't disagree with SS God > SS3 Vegetto, I just don't think the gap needs to be that huge. It can be 2x and work for me.

[apex_pretador]

And who says SS4 Goku can't do that? Or even Super Vegeta-Baby?

Majuub couldn't do it.
So, Majuub << SS vegetto (buu arc)

Actually,you can't prove me wrong by my powerscaling. Try if you wish to.

SS Vegetto >= SS4 Goku (GT) > SS3 Goku (GT) > SS2 Goku (GT) > SS Goku (GT) Base Goku (GT) > Base Gohan (GT) > Ultimate Gohan

Or like this:
SS vegetto >= SS4 goku (GT) = 10x SS goku > SS3 goku > SS goku > base goku = Ultimate gohan > SS gohan

For that chain to be true, Base Vegetto would have to be multiple times stronger than Ultimate Gohan and by extension Gohan-Boo. Try justifying Vegetto using Super Saiyan if that's the case.

SS in GT is nowhere near 50x boost. Simple.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Majuub couldn't do it.
So, Majuub << SS vegetto (buu arc)

How do you know Super Oob couldn't? He never fought Gohan-Boo.

Or like this:
SS vegetto >= SS4 goku (GT) = 10x SS goku > SS3 goku > SS goku > base goku = Ultimate gohan > SS gohan

That chain is incorrect considering Gohan is stated to have trained in between Z and GT.

SS in GT is nowhere near 50x boost. Simple.

Even going with the implied SS boost (in between 2x and 3x), Vegetto would still end up stronger than Gohan-Boo in base unless you ignore Gohan being stated to have trained.