What do you think of Super 17?

Captain Strawberry · Post by **Captain Strawberry** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:52 pm

Besides the power scale, what do you think of Super 17?

Spoiler:

ekrolo2 · Post by **ekrolo2** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 3:07 pm

He works for the purpose he was made: a powerful villain to wreck the good guys and serve as the mascot for a big enough catastrophe to get the ball rolling for the Shadow Dragons. Sure he's blandly evil but honestly, unless your name's Baby or Beerus, that's a pretty accurate description for most DB bad guys. At least his return finally gave 18 something to do besides being the near emotionless wife of Krillin.

Kuririn Fan · Post by **Kuririn Fan** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 3:07 pm

Cool design, worst arc ever.

Pocket-God · Post by **Pocket-God** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 3:10 pm

HE'S THE BEST CHARACTER TO EVER EXIST IN THE DBVERSE Hdfjkhldasjkfhadsjklfhjkadsfhjl kashd

Adrian Malacoda · Post by **Adrian Malacoda** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 4:08 pm

Easily my least favorite part of GT, but that was more due to the arc than the character himself. Specifically, even ignoring the fact that villains shouldn't keep their bodies in Hell, it is very implausible that Gero and Myuu would have the materials or the ability to construct another #17 in Hell, and even more implausible that this #17 would be able to create a hole in Hell that allows them to escape.

Cipher · Post by **Cipher** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 6:15 pm

I think he's a pretty cool dude.

In all seriousness, I think he has a great design, if un-Toriyama-ish in the way a lot of GT's designs are (but he's consistent with the aesthetics of the series).

Kamiccolo9 · Post by **Kamiccolo9** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 6:23 pm

Adrian Malacoda wrote:Easily my least favorite part of GT, but that was more due to the arc than the character himself. Specifically, even ignoring the fact that villains shouldn't keep their bodies in Hell, it is very implausible that Gero and Myuu would have the materials or the ability to construct another #17 in Hell, and even more implausible that this #17 would be able to create a hole in Hell that allows them to escape.

I mean, Gero made 20 androids in a cave with a bunch of scrap, so I don't see what's so unbelievable about making one in filler hell.

ekrolo2 · Post by **ekrolo2** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 6:26 pm

Kamiccolo9 wrote:
Adrian Malacoda wrote:Easily my least favorite part of GT, but that was more due to the arc than the character himself. Specifically, even ignoring the fact that villains shouldn't keep their bodies in Hell, it is very implausible that Gero and Myuu would have the materials or the ability to construct another #17 in Hell, and even more implausible that this #17 would be able to create a hole in Hell that allows them to escape.
I mean, Gero made 20 androids in a cave with a bunch of scrap, so I don't see what's so unbelievable about making one in filler hell.

Plus purely mechanical beings like Sargeant Metallic and Myuu are in hell so they could easily piece together something from them.

Gorou · Post by **Gorou** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 6:40 pm

A lot of wasted potential, just like most of the series.

precita · Post by **precita** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 6:42 pm

I don't understand how two 17's fused somehow become stronger than a Super Saiyan 4.

Lord Beerus · Post by **Lord Beerus** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:02 pm

The arc itself was horrible because of how much they wasted the return of Android 17 and how convoluted the plot progressed. I don't mind the concept of Super 17 because it was intriguing but it just never amounted to anything. The design of Super 17 was at least decent.

Cipher · Post by **Cipher** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:06 pm

I don't share most people's hate for his arc, it seems. It's simple and fun. At six episodes, it doesn't overstay its welcome. I quite like his fight against Goku too--the first episode to cover it is beautiful.

I don't mind the concept of Super 17 because it was intriguing but it just never amounted to anything.

I see it as fitting in fairly snuggly to the series' endgame movements--revisiting a lot of the things characters have been responsible for in the past--the Tsufuru-jin, villains coming out of Hell for one last hurrah, and finally the Evil Dragons arc. I enjoy the moments between Goku and #18 in the arc as well.

Again, it's all very unlike something Toriyama would do, but that's part of what makes it an intriguing epilogue.

Strength-wise, Super #17 feels justified to me, with the combination of Gero's infinite-energy androids and Dr. Myuu's Machine Mutants, who possess quite a bit of power and a number of odd properties. Then you have the energy absorption stacked on top of it. I can see them whipping up something stronger than Boo.

TheatreStyleKai · Post by **TheatreStyleKai** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 10:25 pm

Hated Super 17. Bland character, terrible design, complete nonsensical plot (more than usual anyways) that managed to be underwhelming in every possible way.

FoolsGil · Post by **FoolsGil** » Sat Mar 12, 2016 11:33 pm

The idea that Gero and Myuu could just create a robot in Hell is dumb. But as a character, I had no problem with him. And Super 17 had the most satisfying defeat, 18 and Goku working together to take him down. That was cool.

Polyphase Avatron · Post by **Polyphase Avatron** » Sun Mar 13, 2016 4:08 am

Pros:

- His outfit is cool
- The ability to absorb ki from anywhere on his body seems like a natural progression of Dr. Gero's technology

Cons:

- Lame backstory
- Generic personality
- Deus Ex Machina 'power of love' plot device defeated him
- Goku was a retard when he fought him

Pantalones · Post by **Pantalones** » Sun Mar 13, 2016 9:27 am

I don't understand how two 17's fused somehow become stronger than a Super Saiyan 4.

From what I remember, they were talking about the original #17 having some untapped power that Gero wasn't able to use originally. So in a way it's a fusion AND a potential-unlock at the same time for two Android 17s. Considering that two standard Super Saiyans back in the Buu saga fusing ended up "perhaps even more powerful than a Super Saiyan 4," it doesn't seem off at all that two potential-unlocked #17s would fuse together to make something that's at least close to that range (Super 17 didn't actually start out stronger than SSJ4 Goku, did he? I mean, he absorbed a lot of energy before Goku went SSj4, between beating up everyone else and his initial clashes with Goku...)

TheMikado · Post by **TheMikado** » Sun Mar 13, 2016 10:19 pm

Pantalones wrote:
I don't understand how two 17's fused somehow become stronger than a Super Saiyan 4.
From what I remember, they were talking about the original #17 having some untapped power that Gero wasn't able to use originally. So in a way it's a fusion AND a potential-unlock at the same time for two Android 17s. Considering that two standard Super Saiyans back in the Buu saga fusing ended up "perhaps even more powerful than a Super Saiyan 4," it doesn't seem off at all that two potential-unlocked #17s would fuse together to make something that's at least close to that range (Super 17 didn't actually start out stronger than SSJ4 Goku, did he? I mean, he absorbed a lot of energy before Goku went SSj4, between beating up everyone else and his initial clashes with Goku...)

This is exactly correct Super 17 was not as strong as SSJ4 but had absorbed a ton of energy and even back when he first fought SSJ4 Goku he kept his distance to bait him into firing off energy blasts.

As to why they are so strong. 1) Dr. Myuu was already about to make base form SSJ3/Buu level Robots plus if you know dragon ball history at all then you know there were two models of androids, the infinite/limitless power model which original 17 & 18 are and the absorption model which 19&20 are. Supposedly 17&18 have higher baseline power sets with no method to increase.

Basically Super 17 combined both the infinite/limitless energy model and the absorption model to gain access to appearly infinite growth potential. At some point Goku thought he could overload it with raw energy/power but even Dr. My yup was surprised when Super 17 was able to absorb that much energy at one time.

Anyway I'll never understand why people hate him so much. He's waaaaaay better than Golden Frieza with a palette swap and no new powers. Almost like he didn't learn anything the the 2(!) previous times he fought super Saiyans. At least Super 17 attempts a new design, power set, and builds on previous known lore of android capacities.

Dbzk1999 · Post by **Dbzk1999** » Sun Mar 13, 2016 10:27 pm

TheMikado wrote:
Anyway I'll never understand why people hate him so much. He's waaaaaay better than Golden Frieza with a palette swap and no new powers.

That's not saying much

Hellspawn28 · Post by **Hellspawn28** » Mon Mar 14, 2016 9:53 am

I hated Super 17. Sure he looks cool, but the idea behind him is stupid. Gero mention #17 being his ultimate creation when Cell was mention to be his ultimate creation. Which ruins his Cell character in DBZ. Not to mention the idea of fusing #17 into one sounds really stupid. With Golden Freeza, Freeza is the most iconic villain in the series and that makes sense for him to become stronger. #17 on the other hand, did nothing really major besides get himself absorbed by Cell. Super 17 has little no personality and no motivation. I can't see Super 17 don't much else if he killed Goku and the others. He didn't want to listen to Dr. Myuu and even killed Dr. Gero.

I would have taken a original creator from both Dr. Myuu and Dr. Gero instead.

TheMikado · Post by **TheMikado** » Mon Mar 14, 2016 10:14 am

Hellspawn28 wrote:I hated Super 17. Sure he looks cool, but the idea behind him is stupid. Gero mention #17 being his ultimate creation when Cell was mention to be his ultimate creation. Which ruins his Cell character in DBZ. Not to mention the idea of fusing #17 into one sounds really stupid. With Golden Freeza, Freeza is the most iconic villain in the series and that makes sense for him to become stronger. #17 on the other hand, did nothing really major besides get himself absorbed by Cell. Super 17 has little no personality and no motivation. I can't see Super 17 don't much else if he killed Goku and the others. He didn't want to listen to Dr. Myuu and even killed Dr. Gero.

I would have taken a original creator from both Dr. Myuu and Dr. Gero instead.

Know your DBZ history. Dr. Gero didnt crest Cell. His computer did, so in that regard 17 would have been on of his final and greatest creations. Everything else is opinion except for bringing back Frieza for a Third time only to be wiped out again. If you could the movies and GT it's like the 5th time.... and nothing about Frieza suddenly gaining the ability to go Golden and power up to God levels in 4 months makes sense.... If that's the case a few years of training and he should have been able to easily take out Beerus if he was already above SSB levels except for stamina. Most are pegging SSB as a 7 or 8 to Beerus 10 full power. This means that after just 4 darns months of training Frieza is now a 8-9 on the god scale. For reference he would have had to mathematical increased his power by x 800 in four months to get to that level which is absurd. In another month of training at that rate how could have easily taken out Beerus, two more months and beaten Whils so in 6 months at that power increase rate how could have likely been powerful enough to wipe out everyone from every universe. How does that remotely make sense but Super 17 is way more nonsensical.

Kanzenshuu

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