Dub Freeza and the effect of Linda Young

[Sin]

Before i begin this social-suicide thread, let it be said that Nakao is Freeza in my eyes, and his portrayal is above any of the dub portrayals in my opinion.

With that said, i want to talk about the effect Linda Young's portrayal of Freeza had on the character and those viewing the show for the first time. To do this i am going to ask you to bring forward your thoughts on Freeza from the original dub years.

Young's dub of Freeza gets a pretty hard time from most fans of the series, especially around these parts and certainly amongst those who have seen the original japanese version of the character. The issues seem to be with this 'mom putting on a bad guy voice' and the changes this made to Freezas character when compared to Nakao or his portayal in the manga. For me these issues, whilst valid, are perhaps exhagerrated or given too much criticism when we consider the popularity Freeza endured globally despite the voice actor. Freeza was (and is for me) the greatest villain of the Z series, and certainly his arc is probably the best known in America and the UK as popularity was at an all time high around this point in the international market. Clearly Young was not doing so bad of a job that the character had lost its footing as a great villain.

Young's voice for Freeza was certainly feminine, and this created an ambiguity surrounding Freeza's gender for a lot of viewers here in the UK at least (certainly with the even more feminine Ocean dub having made its presence). Is this a bad thing? Maybe, Freeza is a male and a lord, not a croaky old woman. Nevertheless this portrayal is comparable to HIM from the Powerpuff Girls (please stay with me here), both were males of a similar ambiguous design with a feminine voice creating this disassociation from any gender in particular. Both of these characters were broadcast alongside each other, and any of you who watched PPG will support me when i say that HIM was more sinister than any other villain, despite having such an odd voice casting. In fact perhaps the popularity of these characters can somewhat be attributed to these portayals. The gender ambiguity completely disconnected us from these villains, they became otherwordly and inhuman through their lack of conformity to what we expect.

The alien effect influenced by the Young's Freeza created a villain which stood apart from its japanese counterpart. Mannerisms too were changed, with Young's Freeza not staying true to the psychopathic spoilt brat which both Nakao and Ayres can so naturally bring forth from the character.

But is Young's portrayal wrong? Was it the voice, or just the changes to dialogue and mannerisms? What are your guys thoughts on Linda Young's Freeza and how the character was sold to the international first-time viewers?

[Ajay]

But is Young's portrayal wrong? Was it the voice, or just the changes to dialogue and mannerisms?

Yes, and both.

This very website popularised the whole "Freeza never had an English language appearance until Chris Ayres came along", and I think that's very fair.

Linda Young might be enjoyable to a certain group of fans, but whatever she was doing wasn't Freeza, and I think that's the point.

You cannot change what makes the character the character and expect it to work as a legitimate adaptation. Doesn't matter how some fans might perceive it.

[Sin]

But is Young's portrayal wrong? Was it the voice, or just the changes to dialogue and mannerisms?

Yes, and both.

This very website popularised the whole "Freeza never had an English language appearance until Chris Ayres came along", and I think that's very fair.

Linda Young might be enjoyable to a certain group of fans, but whatever she was doing wasn't Freeza, and I think that's the point.

You cannot change what makes the character the character and expect it to work as a legitimate adaptation. Doesn't matter how some fans might perceive it.

But is it really fair? This was the first english-speaking dub of the show and all Funimation had to go on was Nakao's Freeza, but creative freedom meant that they chose to go a different route with the voice of Freeza, and although the mannerisms of the character were developed through the manga, both the english dub and original show were just trying to find a voice they felt represented the character when casting. Do you really feel like it was Young and not the bad writing?

[Gyt Kaliba]

You cannot change what makes the character the character and expect it to work as a legitimate adaptation. Doesn't matter how some fans might perceive it.

While this is certainly true, and I agree to it wholeheartedly, I do think there is something to the fact that Freeza was still considered one of the most popular villains amongst fans, even dub-only fans, back in the day. If anything though, I would say that that's just further evidence of how well written a villain Freeza is and was. His villainy still managed to shine through via the stuff that still happened because it had to happen, even in the most edited and mishandled version of the character.

That said, I'm also admittedly biased to some degree by the fact that I did grow up with that version of the character, for the longest time. Let me be clear though - I am by no means defending that portrayal of the character (though I was very curious at first to see how she would have handled the more faithful version of him in Kai), and I greatly, greatly prefer both Ayres and Nakao. At the same time though, due to having grown up with watching that version of the character, I'm actually able to still view that version of the show and not...well, I don't want to say not cringe, cuz there's definitely some cringing involved, especially when certain lines pop up. But I'm able to deal with it and survive it much better than most, I think. I think I'm also a little more biased as well, because my original encounter with that version of the character was mostly from the point where Goku went Super Saiyan and onward, by which point the most horrible and offending cases of the dub's mischaracterization of him had been mostly dropped for the time being, at least in comparison to the earlier parts of that arc.

The comparison to 'Him' from Powerpuff Girls is an interesting one, at least in regards to the old dub voices, but I can't really comment too far on that one as my familiarity with PPG is pretty limited. I will say though that it's very interesting in retrospect that her portrayal and voice for the character is in very much the same position as Nozawa's Goku, only for an opposite side of the fandom. Both get accusations of being unfitting for sounding like an 'old lady', and both have unfortunately had some fans go as far as to 'hope for their death so we can get someone new' back in the day. I think most people here would agree which of the two women gives a more fitting portrayal for their character, as well as that death wishes over something like that is beyond ridiculous, but it is pretty interesting how similar a situation they're in, or have been in, within the fandom.

[Ajay]

Do you really feel like it was Young and not the bad writing?

It's both. Bad writing and bad casting.

I don't particularly care what they felt best represented their idea of the character; they picked wrong. They shouldn't have been deviating in the first place. I don't think it's fair to make excuses for what they were doing.

I should note that I don't mind that they picked a woman, it's just that that voice has absolutely none of the nuance required to pull off a character like Freeza.

Much like Dragon Ball Z as a whole in the west, Freeza succeeded in spite of FUNimation's poor decision making regarding the initial portrayal. That's a testament to Toriyama's work rather than anything FUNi ever did.

[Kamiccolo9]

Freeza sounding feminine isn't the problem.

The problem is that Young's voice is totally unfit to pull off the gravitas that a galactic tyrant should have, and the script had her hitting on Goku.

[Sin]

Ajay you say they shouldnt have been deviating, but there was no definitive voice to begin with. It's an adaptation of the manga and if the original version had a terrible VA would that still be the true voice of the character? Is the original anime definitive to the voices the characters should have?

Gyt, i feel we are pretty similar on this, I don't really care for Linda Young as Freeza, but I'm not as against it as others are, which hopefully doesn't make me any less of a fan of the franchise.

Both of you mention that the character would be popular despite voice talent or characteristic changes, just because of Toriyamas story/design for the character. I wonder if this is really true, the majority of 'casual' fans that i know belong to the group who have no issue with Freeza in the original funi dub. Having said that they weren't looking for a true to the manga Freeza, just a villain. I too would be interested to have seen where a Linda Young Kai Freeza might have gone, but ultimately I'm glad that Ayres was brought in. I also wonder if Ayres Freeza might have been less/more popular if broadcast originally and with the Funi original scripts.

Comparisons to the Goku dub divide amonst fans who don't believe Nozawa has the right voice for Goku and will not acknowledge that version of Goku as a result are interesting too. Is it not equally as ignorant to dismiss the original funi Freeza on the same grounds if we exclude the poor writing?

[Ajay]

Ajay you say they shouldnt have been deviating, but there was no definitive voice to begin with. It's an adaptation of the manga and if the original version had a terrible VA would that still be the true voice of the character? Is the original anime definitive to the voices the characters should have?

It's not, though. The Japanese version of the anime is an adaptation of the manga. The dub is an adaptation of their interpretation of the characters. Absolutely nobody at FUNi was looking at the manga when making decisions for scripts and characters. Heck, they were barely even looking at the Japanese scripts from what we've been told.

[gogeta97]

I will never for the life of me understand why Funimation and so many other dubbing companies gave Freeza a female voice. That being said, even though I think Nakoa just IS Freeza, I do like Young's portrayal of space Hitler as well(and this is coming from the perspective of someone without nostalgia goggles on). It is...odd sure, but I think she was able to pull off a very interesting and somewhat different take on the character. However it clashes with the creator's original vision and for that reason I still definitely take issue with it and many other aspects of the Funi dub.

I don't really know what angle you're trying to get at with this thread. Are you supporting Linda's portrayal for being feminine? I get the comparison to HIM although I fail to see how a character literally called HIM could be interpreted as androgynous. He's more just an effeminate man really.

I've also heard the Chris Sabat supposedly made Young cry when he told her she wouldn't be returning to Kai. Is this true?

[B]

Over time I've taken up the notion that Freeza in the dub is such a drastically different character, you can't (completely)fault Young. She's terrible in the TV series proper; just like everyone else, but then you get to some video games and she starts sounding not quite as bad. I feel the same about Schemmel's Kaiou.

They're wrong. They're incorrect. They're not accurate to the original version. But they weren't exactly trying to be to begin with, and with so much material coming out over the years, the performances became ho-hum. Everybody talks about how fantastic Schemmel is in the "I am Son Goku!" scene is in Burst Limit; which I attribute mostly to the shock of hearing "Son" in the first place. This same scene has Linda Young Freeza dialog along with it, and... It's fine. It's not the Freeza I know and Young, arguably, was never really asked to portray the Freeza I know to start with, but it's a perfectly serviceable sequence of line readings. The same goes whatever Kaiou says in the dub for BoG.

[dbzfan7]

The writing and the voice for me were the issue. Even as a child I couldn't take Freeza seriously at all. I thought he/she was just an unfunny clown who said stupid jokes. I say he/she, since as a child, I couldn't stop flip flopping on Freeza gender since his voice put me off. I knew he was a male, yet I constantly kept saying he was a female because of how he sounded. It wasn't til Kai til I really fell for the character. This is all before I read the manga and got deep into Dragon Ball. So I had no basis of Japanese or original source material at the time.

[RedRibbonSoldier#42]

. The same goes for whatever Kaiou says in the dub for BoG.

Is Schemmel's Kaiou really so bad? It's a totally different kind of voice than the original, but if he reads accurate lines with the right feeling isn't it just as good? As mentioned before, the original manga is silent and he's a blue catfish dude so Kaiou might sound like anything.

[Danfun64]

I didn't really like Linda Young's Freeza much, although since most of what I heard of it was from clips of Season 3...

The interpretations of Freeza from Chris Ayres and Littlekuriboh were both really good. As for the Ocean (Pauline Newstone) and AB Groupe (Ed Marcus?) dubs, even if the voices didn't 100% fit the character, they still sounded fairly menacing when they want to be.

[Lord Beerus]

The writing, direction and cast were all at fault for how Freeza was handled in the original Funi dub. You just couldn't take the character seriously because of how Freeza sounded and what Freeza was saying. I mean, one minute Freeza would beating someone to death, then the next thing you know, he would making questionable advances towards the cast which would make you question Freeza's gender or cracking lame jokes/puns. It was just such a jarring experience.

[ABED]

Apparently there are those that do in fact find her take villainous and can take it serious.

[RedRibbonSoldier#42]

Apparently there are those that do in fact find her take villainous and can take it serious.

My counter argument is: "pop goes the weasel"

[ABED]

Apparently there are those that do in fact find her take villainous and can take it serious.

My counter argument is: "pop goes the weasel"

I wasn't talking about myself, if that's what you were thinking. I've had discussions with people on this very forum that thought those terrible lines made Freeza even more of a psycho because making dumb jokes as you do terrible things is more evil.

[gogeta97]

Apparently there are those that do in fact find her take villainous and can take it serious.

My counter argument is: "pop goes the weasel"

I wasn't talking about myself, if that's what you were thinking. I've had discussions with people on this very forum that thought those terrible lines made Freeza even more of a psycho because making dumb jokes as you do terrible things is more evil.

I'll admit I'm one of those people too.

[ABED]

Young was a bad actress and the terrible dialog only compounded the problem. Give Ayres the same dialog and he won't sound good, but it would be infinitely better than Young's.

[Gyt Kaliba]

Young was a bad actress and the terrible dialog only compounded the problem. Give Ayres the same dialog and he won't sound good, but it would be infinitely better than Young's.

I wouldn't go as far as to call her a bad actress. She was just miscast. She turned in a fine performance as Genkai in Yu Yu Hakusho, and while I don't know any other major roles off the top of my head, she's continued to do fine with incidental roles in various other dubs from FUNi.

Also a part of me still wants a con panel with Ayres to have a segment where he reads some of the worst of Freeza's old dialogue in the dub in his Freeza voice. Pure. Comedy. Gold.