Updated Power Scales 2017

[shadowfox87]

Hello,

I'm going to try to attempt to rank all the Super Saiyan States shown in canon and non-canon DB material. This is my own ranking of what I think is the most powerful Super Saiyan state (left) to the least powerful (right):

Kaioken+SSB>SSB>SSG>SSJ4>SSJ3>SSR>SSJ2>LSSJ>FPSSJ>USSJ>ASSJ>SSJ

Key:
-----
SSB=Super Saiyan Blue
SSG=Super Saiyan God
SSJ=Super Saiya-Jin aka Super Saiyan
LSSJ=Legendary Super Saiya-Jin (now canon in DBS)
SSR=Super Saiyan Rage
FPSSJ=Fully Powered Super Saiyan-Jin aka SSJ Grade IV
MSSJ=Mastered Super Saiya-Jin aka SSJ Grade IV
ASSJ=Ascended Super Saiya-Jin aka SSJ Grade II
USSJ=Ultra Super Saiya-Jin aka SSJ Grade III
FSSJ=False Super Saiya-Jin

We know from the Super Exciting Guide, p.62-63, that the Super Saiyan states are multipliers of base strength. The following multipliers were published:
Super Saiyan - 50x
Super Saiyan 2 - 100x
Super Saiyan 3 - 400x
Kaioken - 2x (up to 20x in canon)
Oozaru - 10x

SSJ4, while not canon, is a transformation from Golden Oozaru. The Golden Oozaru is a combination of SSJ (50x) and Oozaru (10x)=50x10=500x. This is already greater than SSJ3 which is 400x. The SSJ4 transformation condenses the power of the Golden Oozaru into a controlled humanoid form. Furthermore, when Baby Vegeta turned into Golden Oozaru, he was still fighting with SSJ4 Goku equally and at some points, winning. It was not until SSJ4 Goku absorbed the energies of Gohan, Goten, Trunks, and Pan, did he get the upper hand against Golden Oozaru Vegeta. Hence, we can logically assume that SSJ4 and Golden Oozaru have almost equal power and that the multiplier for SSJ4 should be also the same multiplier for Golden Oozaru - ~500x.

Every SSJ transformation has different grades. The SSJ3 transformation expends too much energy and hence it is not used much at all. Instead, it's better to have proper ki control and longer stamina than compromise stamina and energy loss for more strength. This is why SSB is a SSJ with proper ki control (God ki). Goku abandoned SSJ3 for this reason since it is better to master SSB which is already more powerful.

SSR is Super Saiyan Rage, the new form that Trunks unlocked. It is unknown how this compares to LSSJ or SSJ3, but it is clear that is below SSB. We know that mastery of a specific form allows a SSJ form to equal a superior form. For example SSJ2 Trunks at full power was almost the same as SSJ3 Goku. SSJ2 Vegeta enraged after Bulma was slapped was greater than SSJ3 Goku. The SSB form is also greater than SSG. This was stated by Whis in the manga. LSSJ was just introduced in DBS from a female Saiyan from Planet Sadal.

Official Power levels were only shown up to the Freeza saga. Hence, I will not use power levels but feats and logic to compare characters.

I will now rank some characters from Cell Saga to Buu Saa:
Vegito>Gogeta>Ultimate Buu>Mystic Gohan (Buu Saga)>Janemba>Super Buu>Gotenks SSJ3>Goku SSJ3 (Buu Saga)>Kid Buu>Fat Buu>Vegeta SSJ2 (Buu Saga)>Teen Gohan SSJ2>Super Perfect Cell>Hatchiyack>Broly>Bojack>Perfect Cell>Darbura>East Kaioshin>Piccolo>Trunks>Goten

Now for Super (assume max state):
Omni-King>Daishinkan>Omni-King's Attendants>Vados>Whis>Beerus>Champa>Hit>Goku>Vegeta>Freeza>Magetta>Frost>Gotenks>Fat Buu>Piccolo>Cabba>Gohan>Trunks>Goten

In Super, SSJ3 Gotenks was defeated by clone of Vegeta base. Gotenks was unable to touch Vegeta. However, Frost in his Assault Form was able to touch Goku in his base. Based on this logic, Assault Form Frost>SSJ3 Gotenks. It's possible that both Goku and Vegeta got stronger after the Universal Tournament as well as after training for 3 years in the Room of Spirit and Time. Goku in his base was able to take hits from Beerus and spar with him after the tournament, something he couldn't do before without turning into SSG. Gotenks was taken out by Beerus though in 1 hit. We also know that both Gotenks and Fat Buu didn't get any stronger than they were from Buu Saga, so SSJ3 Gotenks>Fat Buu. Frost was already tired from fighting Goku which is why Piccolo was able to keep up with a tired Frost. Even though Piccolo has become stronger, I doubt that he is stronger than Fat Buu.

Note that Broly's power level was revealed in V-Jump 2004 at 1.4 billion while Gogeta's was 2.5 billion. That V-Jump was released to promote Budokai 3 but Takao Koyama, who is the author of all the DBZ movies, was involved in the writing of this. Note that only the power levels in V-Jump are being used and not power levels from a video game. We know from the Buu Saga, that SSJ Goku is 3000 Kili. According to the 2004 V-Jump issue, 1 Kili=50,000 BP. That puts SSJ Goku during his fight with Yakon at 150 million BP which is exactly his power level when he fought Freeza on Namek. This necessarily does not mean that this is Goku's max in SSJ, but just enough for Yakon to be defeated.

It is also stated in the official Toei Animation website that SSJ4 Gogeta is 10x stronger than SSJ4 Goku or SSJ4 Vegeta. Since for the Fusion Dance, both users have to match their power levels before fusion, then SSJ4 Goku~SSJ4 Vegeta, this means the Fusion Dance = (A+B)x5. We know that Potara earrings result in a more powerful fusion but the formula is unknown. It was also later retconned in DBS that the Fusion for Potarra is not permanent and lasts 1 hour.

The multipliers for SSG and SSB are unknown but it is logically derived that they are much greater than 400x since SSJ3 was no match for Beerus. Goku also stated that Fusion would also not be a match which is already greater than SSJ3. In the manga and anime, Beerus stated he used 10% of his full power against enraged SSJ2 Vegeta who was greater in power than SSJ3 Goku for a moment. It was also stated later in an interview by Akira Toriyama that SSG Goku was a 6 and Beerus was a 10, implying that Beerus used ~60% of his full power against Goku. In the movie, it was stated by Whis that Beerus hasn't used nearly 70% of his full power in a long time. Given all this information, we know that Beerus used 10% of his full power against enraged SSJ2 Vegeta, but we do not know what % he used against SSJ3 Goku. If we assume it is 1%, then we can calculate that the SSG has to be more than 60x400=24000x. SSB is stated to be greater in power than SSG in the manga but still below Beerus's level. On the other hand, if Beerus used less than 1% against SSJ3 Goku, then it means that enraged SSJ2 Vegeta surpassed SSJ3 Goku by more than 10x which does not make sense. Anger increases power in the Super Saiyan states. We know this because even Black used it to get stronger in Super Saiyan Rose.

If you disagree, let me know in the reply. I will try to backup with evidence or logic from either manga, databooks, interviews, movies, or episodes.

[Saturnine]

However, we can derive from logic that FPSSJ should be between 51x to 99x since SSJ2 is 100x.

derive from logic

wat

Wouldn't it just be simpler if you put SSj2 at 2x FPSSJ?

Also, it's really hard to have a serious discussion with you if you think Goku in the Buu saga was 3 million in base. That would force you to ignore all the serious trainings he'd undergone up to that point.

[shadowfox87]

However, we can derive from logic that FPSSJ should be between 51x to 99x since SSJ2 is 100x.

derive from logic

wat

Wouldn't it just be simpler if you put SSj2 at 2x FPSSJ?

Also, it's really hard to have a serious discussion with you if you think Goku in the Buu saga was 3 million in base. That would force you to ignore all the serious trainings he'd undergone up to that point.

Yes, you are right, Goku was holding back against Yakon and that 150 million was not his maximum in SSJ. V-Jump published that Cooler's power level was 470 million. Goku defeated Cooler in SSJ before he even learned ASSJ. Hence, his power level I assume is near 850 million in SSJ during the Buu saga. I also use FPSSJ=1.5x SSJ, hence FPSSJ Goku=850 x 1.5=1.3 billion. If you use 850 million in SSJ, then his base becomes 17 million.

I cannot say that SSJ2=2x FPSSJ since that is not what was stated in the Super Exciting Guide. They stated 2x SSJ and since every person who transforms to SSJ is 50x base, the only way to incorporate ASSJ and FPSSJ is to say that FPSSJ=1.5x SSJ.

[Saturnine]

However, we can derive from logic that FPSSJ should be between 51x to 99x since SSJ2 is 100x.

derive from logic

wat

Wouldn't it just be simpler if you put SSj2 at 2x FPSSJ?

Also, it's really hard to have a serious discussion with you if you think Goku in the Buu saga was 3 million in base. That would force you to ignore all the serious trainings he'd undergone up to that point.

Yes, you are right, Goku was holding back against Yakon and that 150 million was not his maximum in SSJ. V-Jump published that Cooler's power level was 470 million. Goku defeated Cooler in SSJ before he even learned ASSJ. Hence, his power level I assume is near 850 million in SSJ during the Buu saga. I also use FPSSJ=1.5x SSJ. If you use 850 million in SSJ, then his base becomes 17 million.

I cannot say that SSJ2=2x FPSSJ since that is not what was stated in the Super Exciting Guide. They stated 2x SSJ and since every person who transforms to SSJ is 50x base, the only way to incorporate ASSJ and FPSSJ is to say that FPSSJ=1.5x SSJ.

It might be the only way if you insist on obeying the SEG without question. If you looked at manga facts instead you'd see some very different things. The manga takes precedence over everything else, including what is written in the guidebooks.

And those V-jump powerlevels like Broly's or Cooler's are entirely arbitrary, you know that don't you?

[shadowfox87]

It might be the only way if you insist on obeying the SEG without question. If you looked at manga facts instead you'd see some very different things. The manga takes precedence over everything else, including what is written in the guidebooks.

And those V-jump powerlevels like Broly's or Cooler's are entirely arbitrary, you know that don't you?

Well of course. The movies are not even canon, but I'm trying to make some logical sense of everything by integrating all the guidebooks and information we have. I did use manga as a source of information also. Which manga facts are you referring to which are inconsistent with what I said?

[Desassina]

Based on the above scale, I will now rank some characters from Cell Saga to Buu Saa:
Vegito=Gogeta>Ultimate Buu>Mystic Gohan (Buu Saga)>Janemba>Super Buu>Gotenks SSJ3>Goku SSJ3 (Buu Saga)>Kid Buu>Fat Buu>Vegeta SSJ2 (Buu Saga)>Teen Gohan SSJ2>Super Perfect Cell>Hatchiyack>Broly>Bojack>Perfect Cell>Darbura>East Kaioshin>Piccolo>Trunks>Goten

I can change this with a few numbers and theories. None of this has to be taken seriously though. By the Boo saga:

Spoiler:

SSJ2/Full Power SSJ Vegetto - 20 - he transformed with sparks and continued fighting without them, so he could have been close to the power of a SSJ2, without the perks of a strength increase.

Super Boo with Gohan's power - 12.8 - the strongest Majin Boo. He's the end result of Gohan's power and Piccolo's intelligence, and the latter could have put a cap on his power, since Piccolo was much weaker. That means that the kids' power could go untapped as well.

Super Boo with Gotenks' power - 10.24 - the second strongest Majin Boo. He has the fused squirts' power and Piccolo's intelligence. The same "rules" apply here, with Piccolo's power being so low that it actually suppressed Majin Boo.

Ultimate Gohan - 8 - the strongest non-fused fighter, but not that far from the others. His power is maxed out to the point of giving no more to Super Boo once he's absorbed, allowing Vegetto to surpass him without bloating his numbers.

SSJ3 Gotenks/Super Boo - 6.4 - they have matched for the duration of their fight, and without Boo giving his all, but being annoyed by him nonetheless. Multiply Gotenks' number by Super Boo's, and then by Piccolo's to get the above.

SSJ3 Goku/Kid Boo - 4 - they have exchanged hits for the duration of their fight as well, with Goku's energy being a problem to his plan of using full power. The number that is represented here is 100 times less than his SSJ3 multiplier over 1.

Fat Boo - 1.6 - what happens when Evil Boo absorbs Good Boo? He turns into Super Boo. Would Kid Boo absorbing Fat Boo lead to the same? I believe it does, hence why their numbers multiplied by each other give Super Boo's. Fat Boo is at a sensible point where he's stronger than a SSJ2, and double the amount of SSJ2 Gohan's power with whatever he collected beforehand.

Majin Vegeta - 1 - I decided to give him this number, and use him to represent SSJ2 Goku as well, who is 100 times less than his SSJ2 multiplier over 1. Majin Vegeta matched Goku throughout, with a fierce exchange of hits and blood (but no AIDS).

SSJ2/Full Power SSJ Gohan - 0.64 - was he using SSJ or SSJ2 against Dabura? That's the debate, so I prefer Vegetto's solution to say that he had power close to a SSJ2, but without the perks of a strength increase. His power, and some other earthlings' through the years, could make half of Majin Boo's power upon release, which is 0.8.

Kaioshin - 0.32 - I'll be blunt: I like him at the level of the weakest SSJ, who is Gohan, if we don't count Goten and Trunks. It seems perfect to me, since he's only halfway towards his full power to pull a paralysis stunt.

Piccolo - 0.25 - ah, the bastard... Stronger than the base Saiyans under 25 times their power, but weaker than anything up to SSJ at 0.5. Multiply his power by Super Boo's with Gotenks absorbed and you'll see that it arrives to 10.24.

SSJ Trunks/Goten - 0.04 - stronger than base Goku at his lowest level, but not quite up there with Piccolo. This is their vanilla transformation, the turning point between base and SSJ, which means that post-RoSaT, they could unlock the double.

Base Goku - 0.01 - He would be 1 if I decided to scale everything by 100, but to keep Majin Boo's formula simple, I decided to use these numbers. I hope you have enjoyed.

-- Formulas and Multipliers --

SSJ1: [50, 100]
SSJ2: [100, 400]
SSJ3: [400, 6'400]

Fusion: (A + B) * 10

Majin Boo's absorption: Majin Boo's Power * Victim's Power

[shadowfox87]

@Desassina: Thanks for the reply. Most of that makes sense, but I chose not to put numbers for each character. Instead, it is easier to compare which characters are stronger or weaker than others. Since we don't have official power levels during the Buu saga, it is very difficult to compare.

Btw, you should check out my other thread that is titled "Calculating the Fusion Formula". I once thought along the same lines as you which was adding the power levels first and then multiplying with a factor. However, if we do some math, we can derive that it can work with just addition. SSJ Gogeta's power level was published as 2.5 billion. I calculated that FPSSJ Goku is 1.3 billion and FPSSJ Vegeta is 1.2 billion.

As for your multipliers, I'm assuming [50,100] is a range which means that SSJ can be 100x base. I disagree with this since SSJ2=2x SSJ and hence SSJ2=100x base. While there are different grades within SSJ such as ASSJ, USSJ, and FPSSJ, I generally follow the rule that FPSSJ=1.5x SSJ.

I didn't put grades on the other Super Saiyan forms. I'm not sure where you got 6400x as a maximum range for SSJ3.

[Desassina]

As for your multipliers, I'm assuming [50,100] is a range which means that SSJ can be 100x base. I disagree with this since SSJ2=2x SSJ and hence SSJ2=100x base. While there are different grades within SSJ such as ASSJ, USSJ, and FPSSJ, I generally follow the rule that FPSSJ=1.5x SSJ.

I didn't put grades on the other Super Saiyan forms. I'm not sure where you got 6400x as a maximum range for SSJ3.

Finally, someone gets the range idea. I think it works, because SSJ2 is only equal to Full Power SSJ at its lowest, and by unlocking it, you can use up to 400, which is the starting point for SSJ3. I'll explain where I got the 6'400 number from by using the Grades, but be warned that Goku hasn't achieved it, nor Gotenks.

SSJ - (Power: 50) = (Strength: 10) * (Agility: 10) / (Energy: 2)
FPSSJ - (Power: 100) = (Strength: 10) * (Agility: 10) / (Energy: 1)

Since energy caps by less or doesn't cap at all in Full Power SSJ, their power is greater. It was based on the physics formula of Force, which is Mass times Acceleration. Acceleration was compared to one's Agility by Energy wasted. These are only multipliers to their stats, which means that Goku doesn't subtract 2 of energy.

Grade II SSJ - (Power: 64) = (Strength: 16) * (Agility: 16) / (Energy: 4)
Grade III SSJ - (Power: 80) = (Strength: 80) * (Agility: 8 ) / (Energy: 8 )

Note that Grade III is only strong, but not as powerfull as SSJ2, because you can't do anything with a factor of 1 given by the same Agility and Energy consumption. In other words, Trunks has only made himself sturdy.

SSJ2 - (Power: 100) = (Strength: 20) * (Agility: 20) / (Energy: 4)
SSJ3 - (Power: 400) = (Strength: 80) * (Agility: 80) / (Energy: 16)

These respect that everything in SSJ3 is four times higher than SSJ2, which includes Energy consumption. What would happen if Goku controlled his energy, though? He would use his Full Power, which gives the number:

FPSSJ3 - (Power: 6'400) = (Strength: 80) * (Agility: 80) / (Energy: 1)

However, he didn't control it, and his power slipped. I'll read your theories as well. Point me to them.

[shadowfox87]

While it's impressive that you split them into 3 categories, I think in DBS, they are not doing different grades within the same Super Saiyan form. Instead, Goku and Vegeta are increasing their own base strength. This was also stated by Whis. The Super Saiyan form has now become a multiplier of that base and about ki control. With the introduction of SSB, it has the best ki control and makes all other SSJ forms (even SSJ2) inefficient. Goku will most likely not use SSJ3 again as it is a waste of energy, so that 6400x multiplier is likely to never happen. The only time there is a range is for SSJ1 because there is ASSJ, USSJ, and FPSSJ.

[Desassina]

It's only an old theory of mine. It's obvious that it doesn't adhere to Super, but I couldn't help it The idea of SSJ being above SSJ2 and SSJ3 is still strange, and I'd rather believe that, because these two had never been mastered, Vegeta and Goku unleashed their power with the only transformation that they control: SSJ. If their power is above a certain threshold, which could be that of a SSJG, then their hair would turn blue, like stars change color the more they burn.

[shadowfox87]

It's only an old theory of mine. It's obvious that it doesn't adhere to Super, but I couldn't help it The idea of SSJ being above SSJ2 and SSJ3 is still strange, and I'd rather believe that, because these two had never been mastered, Vegeta and Goku unleashed their power with the only transformation that they control: SSJ. If their power is above a certain threshold, which could be that of a SSJG, then their hair would turn blue, like stars change color the more they burn.

SSJ is still not above SSJ2 or SSJ3 in terms of power. SSJ is only good because of ki control. Goku and Vegeta need to fight in short bursts of energy. When using high continuous energy outputs like SSJ2, they waste energy. It is the same thing even for Kaioken that Goku used recently. My theory is that Goku will learn to use short bursts of Kaioken and have the Kaioken aura not surround his entire body but only certain parts of it when he needs it. For example, if he wants to throw a punch, the Kaioken aura would only be in his fists or arms.

[Xeztin]

Pretty neat, appreciate the effort that's gone into this! I am curious though about your range on SSG, Golden Freeza, and SSJB. If you had to slap numbers on them what would they be? (With excluding SSJ4 from the SSJ line) Then, with excluding Super's existence, and following GT what would you put SSJ4 at?

[shadowfox87]

Pretty neat, appreciate the effort that's gone into this! I am curious though about your range on SSG, Golden Freeza, and SSJB. If you had to slap numbers on them what would they be? (With excluding SSJ4 from the SSJ line) Then, with excluding Super's existence, and following GT what would you put SSJ4 at?

Slapping numbers always leads to problems. All we can do accurately is compare characters with each other to gauge who is stronger or weaker. It was already stated in Chapter 5 of the manga:
実はこの少し前 かつて宇宙を震撼させた恐怖の帝王フリーザが復活し地球に攻めてくるといった出来事があった しかし悟空とベジータはビルス達に出会って以来ウイスに修行をつけてもらいゴッドをも上回る超サイヤ人ブルーにまで進化を遂げていたのだ そして復活したフリーザにも勝つことができたのである！
Translation:
In fact, a little while before this, the terrible emperor Freeza who had previously terrorized the universe came back to life and attacked Earth. However, after meeting Beerus and Whis, Goku and Vegeta received training from Whis, managing to evolve into Super Saiyan Blue, a form surpassing Super Saiyan God. And so they even managed to defeat the revived Freeza!

This already proves that SSB>SSG. Goku himself stated that Golden Freeza's power was above his own and that the only reason he will win is because Freeza did not learn to sustain his Golden Form. However, Goku has gotten MUCH stronger than he was when he fought Golden Freeza. Hence, currently Goku>Vegeta>Freeza.

I would put SSJ4=1000x base or SSJ4=2.5x SSJ3. It is not a transformation from SSJ3, but a transformation from Golden Oozaru and later from base. If SSJ3 is 400x, SSJ4 has to be at least 500x to 1000x. This makes sense since Oozaru is 10x but when Bulma concentrated the Blutz rays on Vegeta, she said it was 1000x concentrated. This means that SSJ4=2.5x SSJ3.

If excluding Super: SSJ3>SSJ2>FPSSJ>USSJ>ASSJ>SSJ>Freeza.