Darkest Saga

ulisa · Post by **ulisa** » Mon May 15, 2006 1:10 am

I know a lot of people have mentioned their favorite villian move and villain and whatnot like that but I got to thinking about which _saga_ really struck me as 'dark.'

For me, the darkest storyline was the Piccolo Damaio Saga in Dragonball. First off, Piccolo Damaio is a totally ruthless villiain. Not only was he ruthless but Tamborine was twisted too. Killing off every martial artist in the tournament simply to keep from being defeated again, using Pilaf until he didn't need him and simply dropping him to the earth, abolishing peace and justice, announcing he'd destroy the earth a little at a time....

I think what really drove it home as dark though was the fact that before this saga, I don't remember anyone being killed, at least not anyone we'd come to know really well. By now, we'd all come to know Kuririn, Roshi, and the various others very well and here they were getting slaughtered one after the other. Piccolo Damaio killed the DRAGON! I remember seeing it the first time and thinking: 'Can he do that?'

Goku's character was really changed in this saga too. From the very start, we see an anger in Goku that we hadn't really seen before. Kuririn is dead and Goku is PISSED. I sat wondering if this was the same carefree child we met at the beginning a few times.

His quest for the Ultra Holy Water was awesome. His determination, even at the very probable cost of his life, really said volumes to me. Really spoke out about his loyalty, I thought. He didn't care what become of him, all he was concerned with was avenging Kuririn and making sure that no one else died. He stayed like that throughout the rest of the series I believe but this was the first I really saw it. Pretty pure hearted for someone not to care about themselves even when death is very possible. But when you introduce death as a possibility, the maturity goes up. Although Goku stayed carefree, I don't think he ever went back to the one he was before Piccolo Damiao.

Finally, even when Piccolo Damaio is dying with this huge gaping hole through his chest, what does he do? Leaves us with a final offspring of course...

Just my thoughts:) What saga struck you as the darkest?

Ulisa:)

theoriginalbilis · Post by **theoriginalbilis** » Mon May 15, 2006 2:23 am

The Namek/Freeza saga is my vote as the "darkest" saga.

Let's see....

genocide... (the total slaughter of the Namekians) I choose this becuase even though huge populations of people die in the DB series, the Freeza arc showed the Nameks dying (old Namek's neck go SNAP! and their corpses are shown and they even show children being killed.) Oh yes, and the obliteration of the Saiyajins (if you count the Bardock special.)

violence/torture... (Nail's fight w/ Freeza, Piccolo being blasted near to death by ki blasts, Gohan's head being stepped on, Kuririn's impalement and subsequent torture, Vegeta's back and ribs being broken from repeated punches by Freeza and being shot through the heart, Kuririn EXPLODING, both Goku and Freeza VOMITING blood by punching each other (which doesn't occur much before or after this arc), and the major villain being CUT IN HALF as the final coup de grace.)

Freeza himself... Sure, the villain could just kill you, but NO! Freeza would politely say how hopeless it is for you to survive, threaten your family, kill your best friends, and instill a hopeless fear into you, all while maintaining a suave, yet evil voice.

Oh... er... um... that's all I can think about right now. But yes, that's my darkest saga pick.

Snail · Post by **Snail** » Mon May 15, 2006 2:38 am

The saga that you considered dark was indeed such a shock for me when I first read it in the manga. It was just so unexpected, all of the events that occured were pretty unpredictable.

The darkest saga for me, was during the Androids/Cell saga. This arc gave off such a sense of grief and depression. A new hero arrives only to reveal the truth about a possible fatal future of how everybody would die against the androids, except for Gohan and himself. The hero that we've all become so dependant on had fallen ill to a heart virus. The androids that everybody prepared so hard for were stronger than what they could handle, and the super saiyan powers were rendered useless when faced against the androids. Things continued to plummet further downhill as Kami senses an evil greater evil that had emerged, as Cell made it's entrance.

The whole 'dark' feel was gone from me once Cell transformed for the first time. I believe I lost that 'feel' because the story kind of stopped showing the audience how desperate things looked for the population. Whenever Trunks or Cell began to talk about their past, and of how Dr.Gero planned all of this behind our heroes' back it reminds the audience of how desperate the situation was, but as the series progressed that feeling was lost.

theoriginalbilis · Post by **theoriginalbilis** » Mon May 15, 2006 3:09 am

Ah yes... The Artificial Humans/Cell arc was my second choice, mainly because of Trunks' horrible reality.

Jodaku · Post by **Jodaku** » Mon May 15, 2006 9:39 am

I think all three story arcs that have already been mentioned here really have a strong case for being the 'Darkest saga', but think a have go with the Freeza saga, 'theoriginalbilis' has pretty much all the reasons covered.

The thing about the about the Android/Cell saga is that while backstory of Trunks' future was damn tragic (easily the most tragic event of the whole of the DB mythos) the the saga itself wasn't all that dark (apart from all the stuff leading Cell's first appearance and the mystery behind him, that had a sort of 'horror' feel that hadn't really been felt before in DB or afterwards), while in the Freeza saga everything that was dark about it unfolded before our very eyes.

MisterFlashdude · Post by **MisterFlashdude** » Mon May 15, 2006 4:04 pm

I've never really thought of DBZ as a particularly dark series... but rather, having the occasional dark moment...
Most of the things mentioned so far are just a few moments, spread out over several dozen episodes.

Granted, most people will agree that the Piccolo Daimao saga was the turning point from the fantasy-comedy feel of Dragonball to the more constant-action feel of DBZ so I guess you could say it would give you more of a darker (or maybe just 'more serious') feeling than most other sagas just because of that reason.

As for dark moments, every saga has them... Radditz kidnapping Gohan and telling Goku that he has to pile 100 bodies infront of Kame House by the next day is somewhat dark.

theoriginalbilis wrote: violence/torture... (Nail's fight w/ Freeza, Piccolo being blasted near to death by ki blasts, Gohan's head being stepped on, Kuririn's impalement and subsequent torture, Vegeta's back and ribs being broken from repeated punches by Freeza and being shot through the heart, Kuririn EXPLODING, both Goku and Freeza VOMITING blood by punching each other (which doesn't occur much before or after this arc), and the major villain being CUT IN HALF as the final coup de grace.)

You can say a lot of the same for the fight against the Saiya-jin on Earth. Just replace 'Freeza' with 'Vegeta' and Kuririn with Chaozu...

Freeza not only wiped out most of the Nameks (with the help of his stooges, and then added with Vegeta's similar taste for destruction) but this was also when we find out he destroyed the entire Saiya-jin race to (with the exception of 4).

Cell saga had the Jinzoningen wiping out massive amounts of people, and Cell was impaling people and sucking out their life force! If you translated that into a live-action movie, it'd look pretty disturbing. Cell's mental and physical torture of Gohan during the Cell games was somewhat dark.... and then smashing poor #16's head...

Buu got pretty dark moments too, thanks to Majin Vegeta blasting away a portion of the Tenkaichi Budokai audience and giving what many feel was the most badass villian moment in DBZ. There was a puppy shot, for goodness sake!

Anyways... those are just some that spring to mind.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Mon May 15, 2006 4:45 pm

theoriginalbilis wrote: Freeza himself... Sure, the villain could just kill you, but NO! Freeza would politely say how hopeless it is for you to survive, threaten your family, kill your best friends, and instill a hopeless fear into you, all while maintaining a suave, yet evil voice.

Although we all know how much that ended up backfiring for him.

And yes, I'd have to go with the Saiyan --> Freeza arc. Lots of crazy, brutal, messed-up stuff going on in that one. I was reading it recently, and couldn't believe that people think of DbZ as a kids' show\comic.

And I'd actually tie the Androids\Cell and Buu arcs for second. Both had more than their fair share of horrific senses of despair and doom, if ya ask me.

Chaos Saiyajin · Post by **Chaos Saiyajin** » Mon May 15, 2006 5:16 pm

The Jinzoningen, for sure. I mean, poor Trunks, having everyone close to you die, even watch your best friend die and have mind games played with you for your entire life. I mean, gosh.

DB_Fan · Post by **DB_Fan** » Mon May 15, 2006 5:35 pm

MisterFlashdude wrote:Buu got pretty dark moments too, thanks to Majin Vegeta blasting away a portion of the Tenkaichi Budokai audience and giving what many feel was the most badass villian moment in DBZ. There was a puppy shot, for goodness sake!

Not to mention that the main cast was killed and Earth was destroyed.

Snail · Post by **Snail** » Mon May 15, 2006 8:00 pm

Although during the Buu arc, everything was annhilated, there wasn't a 'dark' feel to it. I don't know how to describe it.

Cyberman · Post by **Cyberman** » Mon May 15, 2006 8:19 pm

Buu Saga was both dark and hilarious. Go figure.

Kaze no Mune · Post by **Kaze no Mune** » Mon May 15, 2006 8:24 pm

For me, it's probably the Piccolo Dai Mao arc, followed by the Buu arc.

Piccolo Dai Mao arc - a whole lot of things go wrong here that make it so brutal. Many people die, including Goku's best friend, Goku almost dies and then is almost beaten in battle, and Piccolo goes from stronger than Goku to many times stronger. There's probably more to it, but that's all I can remember at the moment.

Buu arc - Vegeta dies, Goku is dead, everyone on Earth is killed, and our last hope against Buu in the end is another Genki Dama. The main theme here is just the large amount of death. I mean, even Chichi, Bulma, and everyone else dies. It seems as if Toriyama had been waiting for years to kill these characters, just for the hell of it.

majinrod153 · Post by **majinrod153** » Mon May 15, 2006 8:39 pm

MisterFlashdude wrote:I've never really thought of DBZ as a particularly dark series... but rather, having the occasional dark moment...
Most of the things mentioned so far are just a few moments, spread out over several dozen episodes.

Granted, most people will agree that the Piccolo Daimao saga was the turning point from the fantasy-comedy feel of Dragonball to the more constant-action feel of DBZ so I guess you could say it would give you more of a darker (or maybe just 'more serious') feeling than most other sagas just because of that reason.

As for dark moments, every saga has them... Radditz kidnapping Gohan and telling Goku that he has to pile 100 bodies infront of Kame House by the next day is somewhat dark.
theoriginalbilis wrote: violence/torture... (Nail's fight w/ Freeza, Piccolo being blasted near to death by ki blasts, Gohan's head being stepped on, Kuririn's impalement and subsequent torture, Vegeta's back and ribs being broken from repeated punches by Freeza and being shot through the heart, Kuririn EXPLODING, both Goku and Freeza VOMITING blood by punching each other (which doesn't occur much before or after this arc), and the major villain being CUT IN HALF as the final coup de grace.)
You can say a lot of the same for the fight against the Saiya-jin on Earth. Just replace 'Freeza' with 'Vegeta' and Kuririn with Chaozu...

Freeza not only wiped out most of the Nameks (with the help of his stooges, and then added with Vegeta's similar taste for destruction) but this was also when we find out he destroyed the entire Saiya-jin race to (with the exception of 4).

Cell saga had the Jinzoningen wiping out massive amounts of people, and Cell was impaling people and sucking out their life force! If you translated that into a live-action movie, it'd look pretty disturbing. Cell's mental and physical torture of Gohan during the Cell games was somewhat dark.... and then smashing poor #16's head...

Buu got pretty dark moments too, thanks to Majin Vegeta blasting away a portion of the Tenkaichi Budokai audience and giving what many feel was the most badass villian moment in DBZ. There was a puppy shot, for goodness sake!

Anyways... those are just some that spring to mind.

In the uncut version, those guys also shoot an old couple.

I was like, WHAT!!!! When I first saw that.

veshira · Post by **veshira** » Mon May 15, 2006 11:36 pm

majinrod153 wrote: In the uncut version, those guys also shoot an old couple.

I was like, WHAT!!!! When I first saw that.

Wait, who shot an old couple?

Are you talking about 17 and 18 in the future, or them in the present, because I could certainly see the two in the future doing that. But not the present.

theoriginalbilis · Post by **theoriginalbilis** » Tue May 16, 2006 12:52 am

Veshira,

In the Boo saga, there were two criminals (or something) armed with guns, and they decided since "Buu is killing everyone anyway" they were going to have some fun. Horrificly, they decided to take their "fun" out on not only a elderly couple, but a puppy too. This is what causes Fat Boo to split into Thin Boo and then kill the two shooters.

I agree with whoever said that scene was disturbing. When I first saw it, I was like "How could this be on a kid's show!?"

Casual Matt · Post by **Casual Matt** » Tue May 16, 2006 7:52 am

Snail wrote:Although during the Buu arc, everything was annhilated, there wasn't a 'dark' feel to it. I don't know how to describe it.

It wasn't dark. It was epic.

Steven Perry · Post by **Steven Perry** » Wed May 17, 2006 1:14 pm

Trunks' timeline. It's pretty obvious: not only is he going through some mental breakdown, but everyone is dead. Trunks and Gohan were the only two left... And now Trunks is by himself. The scene in which he discovers his dead body is the best back- drop (it's raining, and literally "dark").

It reminds me of The Terminator in so many ways (all that travelling back in time to prevent a disastrous fate 'n' stuff)... It's as if they were all destined to die. It's amazing that they made it through though, only to be confronted by Cell. When do these guys get peace?!

Now, if that isn't dark, I don't know what is.

Bejiita · Post by **Bejiita** » Wed May 17, 2006 1:30 pm

I haven't seen DB so it's DBZ and definately the Freeza saga.

I remember being relatively new to the series and watching it in dub form(of course I've seen the original now which is far more dramatic and entertaining) and it took me by suprise to see characters getting killed, since I haven't seen many anime I'm not used to cartoon characters being killed.

Still, it doesn't take away the grim setting, for starters it's on another planet, and mostly all movies which have outer space involved usually revolve around encountering aliens or some sort of monster which kills. Dende and Karugo being killed, especially Kuririn's stabbing and his explosion, all of this saga is set very well and it's one of the reasons why the Freeza saga always remains the greatest, it really captures the feel of being on an adventure from when they set off to when it's finally ends.

Snail · Post by **Snail** » Wed May 17, 2006 6:11 pm

The Frieza arc was indeed intense, and I'd also like to mention during the Frieza arc, the series' animation was making it's transition into a different style, I believe this was the saga where it was most noticable. I remember the releif that could be felt after the ordeal with Frieza had finally ended.

Great Saiyaman · Post by **Great Saiyaman** » Wed May 17, 2006 11:56 pm

Well Trunks general story is the most dark, I mean torture for 2 decades, they were playing with the earth, letting them thing when the next attack'd be....but out of actual Saga's......Namek because of the torture to the Nameks & the real gore that was displayed in it.