Is Goku the main one to blame for Boo's hatching?

[Bansho64]

In the "Non thread worthing discussion thread" I saw two users debating on this very subject and I figured that making a new thread discussing this very subject would be cool. What your views on this subject?

[ABED]

I'll try and reiterate in a clearer manner. Because it's very apparent that Toriyama is writing from the seat of his pants, he had to go back and cover for his inconsistencies, so Goku comes off as an asshole who could've prevented Buu's hatching but didn't because he wanted a fight. Regardless of whether he enjoyed the fight against an opponent whom we would later learn he was vastly superior to, the one thing that should give people pause to think that the explanation Toriyama gives Goku doesn't make any sense is the fact that he lies to Piccolo about being able to defeat Buu even as Super Saiyan 3. I understand that we've seen Goku make reckless decisions for the sake of a fight, but when has he lied about it? He's always upfront that he wants to fight strong opponents, whether it's Piccolo, Vegeta, or the Cyborgs. But he tells Piccolo that he doesn't know if he could defeat Buu even if he wanted to. What does he have to gain by lying to Piccolo? Because of that, I find it impossible to reconcile Goku's actions with his character and so I blame them on Toriyama not thinking ahead to Super Saiyan 3 when Goku fought Vegeta.

[Cetra]

Babidi is the one to blame.

But of course I know people mean "out of all people who did not want Boo do hatch".

Well ... I would say Goku and Vegeta are equal here. Vegeta just cared about what he wanted bringing up the situation and Goku of course played with it then instead of just saying no. Vegeta even acknowledged what he did and fought Boo then. I would like to blame Kaioushin as well but truth be told, things seem to have been very hard to calculate for him.

[ABED]

But of course I know people mean "out of all people who did not want Boo do hatch".

Well ... I would say Goku and Vegeta are equal here. Vegeta just cared about what he wanted bringing up the situation and Goku of course played with it then instead of just saying no.

I wouldn't count on that. Far too often I see heroes get blamed for the actions of the villain. Superman gets blamed for the deaths in Man of Steel and Zod gets off scott free. In Arrow, Felicity is blamed because she couldn't send a nuke to an unpopulated area and instead of letting it go off in a city of millions, she sent it to a town with 10,000. She picked the least crappy of two crappy options, meanwhile the bad guy who sent the nukes to begin with gets no blame. In Dragon Ball, Goku is constantly blamed for Buu even though Babidi was pulling the strings and Vegeta clearly allowed himself to become a Majin. Goku couldn't have just said no. Vegeta was just going to murder more people to force the fight between them.

[Cetra]

Goku very well was able to say "No", it just would have resulted in bad consequences. And probably even gone against his ego. But that was not the point I was trying to make when I said "so he did not say no". Basically, if we do not count Babidi as he was the one "who actually wanted to see Boo" I cannot really blame Goku without blaming Vegeta as well. That is all.

[ABED]

Goku very well was able to say "No", it just would have resulted in bad consequences. And probably even gone against his ego. But that was not the point I was trying to make when I said "so he did not say no".

I'm confused by what you mean then. Goku didn't fight Vegeta out of ego. He tried to get Vegeta to not give in, he didn't want to fight but when innocent people were murdered, he thought the best way to stop it was to give Vegeta what he wanted, hopefully before enough energy was collected. He wasn't trying to resurrect Buu. That would've gone against his character as well because while he's done similar things before, he never did it without the intention of fighting them himself.

[Cetra]

Goku didn't fight Vegeta out of ego.

But we do not know how much was just because of that. Goku is a very passionate Saiyajin. There could always be a part of him that wants the rematch. And i do not want to make more of a point than I already did. The poster mentioned Goku as the one to blame and I said "well, maybe if you want to see that in some way but then Vegeta is also to blame and definitely not less". Also, if we really want to go the route of who can be blamed for what.

1, Goku could just teleport Vegeta to a place where he cannot get back easily and no longer threaten anyone (oh and by the way they could also have done this AFTER Babidi's magic, Goku just said "bring us to somewhere else" but he easily could have said "well Vegeta let's not get Majin Boo to be revived so I'll just bring us to a place where the Spaceship has no connection")
2. Kaioushin could just have used his mind reading ability to know about Vegeta's plan.

So there are always variables where I could bring in "well, they could also have done this but they did not". But that is not even what I wanted to say. I just answered the first question. Is Goku to blame? Maybe in some way but not more than Vegeta.

[Nejishiki]

They're equally at fault for being dismissive of Kaioshin's claims. Vegeta even justifies his actions by pointing out their power far exceeds the enemies they were previously warned about and that Kaioshin is just a fool who underestimated the three Saiyans. Between Goku's training in Other World and Vegeta breaking through the Super Saiyan wall and beyond in Gohan's footsteps, they legitimately believed no one under the heavens could further challenge them and that it was themselves alone who were the pinnacle of strength in the universe. Boo who? He's just another hyped up monster from a paranoid god.

[ABED]

Goku has to be able to sense someone's ki to teleport, so he would just be sending Vegeta somehwere populated.

[Cetra]

Goku has to be able to sense someone's ki to teleport, so he would just be sending Vegeta somehwere populated.

Like to Kaiou. As we have seen before. Which would be no big deal.

[ABED]

Goku has to be able to sense someone's ki to teleport, so he would just be sending Vegeta somehwere populated.

Like to Kaiou. As we have seen before. Which would be no big deal.

Except taht Vegeta would've murdered Kaio and then everyone else he could find. Goku didn't teleport Cell to Kaio's because it was no big deal, he did it because there were no other better options.

[Cetra]

I doubt that Vegeta would have murdered a dead man. Also Kaiou would have had the option to leave the place while they were fighting. And I did not say that it is no big deal just because it is Kaiou or whatever wrong context you thought of. I meant stuff like Kaiou is dead, he can easily leave, Goku has shown he can go to the Otherworld and all that stuff so he could do it again. That is the "no big deal".

[ABED]

I doubt that Vegeta would have murdered a dead man. Also Kaiou would have had the option to leave the place while they were fighting. And I did not say that it is no big deal just because it is Kaiou or whatever wrong context you thought of. I meant stuff like Kaiou is dead, he can easily leave, Goku has shown he can go to the Otherworld and all that stuff so he could do it again. That is the "no big deal".

Why not, you don't think Vegeta is petty or he wouldn't do it? He can do it. The dead in DB world can be destroyed out of existence. All you are pointing out is that Toriyama might not have thought through the options. And is it clear that the damage that Buu absorbs has to do with the ship and it wouldn't have mattered where they went? Why would you think Toriyama was implying Goku was fighting Vegeta and just letting Buu absorb their energy.

[Zephyr]

Vegeta's #1, but Goku didn't help at all.

[Lord Beerus]

I think Kaioshin deserves a huge chunk of the blame for Majin Boo hatching, but Goku, Vegeta and Gohan sure as hell significantly contributed to the entire mess as well.

[Kamiccolo9]

I think Kaioshin deserves a huge chunk of the blame for Majin Boo hatching, but Goku, Vegeta and Gohan sure as hell significantly contributed to the entire mess as well.

Why? Kaioshin was doing his job, and his plan would have worked just fine if the Saiyans weren't being assholes.

[Lord Beerus]

I think Kaioshin deserves a huge chunk of the blame for Majin Boo hatching, but Goku, Vegeta and Gohan sure as hell significantly contributed to the entire mess as well.

Why? Kaioshin was doing his job, and his plan would have worked just fine if the Saiyans weren't being assholes.

For a guy that chasing Babdi's spaceship, he seemed very lacking in vital information about him. Like, not telling any of the Z-Fighters that Babidi had the power to control those with evil in their heart. Why the hell didn't he tell any of the Z-Fighters he could do that? If the Z-Fighters knew beforehand that Babidi had such an ability, then there's no way in hell they would have let Vegeta come to Babidi's spaceship with them. And because of that, the Majin Boo arc then never happens. And of course there's him also leaving out the fact that Majin Boo could absorb people, which in effect, just prolonged the arc once things got rolling. Not to mention heavily underrating the Saiyans and over-hyping the shit out of Badibi's minions. In reality, taking just Goku alone would have been enough to take of Babidi's minions and would have solved everything.

I'll admit happily that the Saiyans take a good share of the blame for Majin Boo being released, but they were already up shit creek without a paddle when Piccolo, Krillin and Kibito bit the dust. If Piccolo, Kibito and Krillin were still around they could have provided proper strategy and planning in how to take of Babidi. Piccolo could have take care of Pui Pui, Gohan could have taken care of Yakon and Vegeta could have taken care of Dabra easily. Then all of Babidi's henchmen are dead. Then Supreme Kai and Kibito takes care of Babidi, Goku and Krillin destroy Majin Boo's cocoon and case closed. The Majin Boo arc ends right there and for a bonus, everybody get a fair share of the spotlight, too.

Kaioshin really didn't think things through, and ultimately, his "plan" of defeating Majin Boo was the catalyst for the Majin Boo arc even happening in the first place as it wasn't well thought out at all. But the Saiyans definitely made things more difficult than it should have been.

EDIT: Oh, and as LightBing pointed out, and I can't believe I forgot about this, Kaioshin essentially giving Babidi half the energy he required right of the bat was an incredibly stupid and insanely careless thing to do.

[Kamiccolo9]

None of which would have mattered (and some of that has nothing to do with Buu hatching in the process), if the Saiyans had just done what he said. The only reason Babidi even considered turning Vegeta was because Vegeta was bitching about Gohan. And later on we found out that Vegeta could have ignored Babidi anyway. That's all on him, not Kaioshin.

[LightBing]

Kaioshin is the main party at fault. He was the one that recruited Vegeta and the others, brought them to the location, misjudged both the Saiyans and Babidi's opposition. Oh! He also gave Babidi for free about half the power necessary to revive Majin Boo.

[Bansho64]

Kaioshin is of the minor ones at fault in my opinion. I expect for a Kai to be smart and more aware of the situation at hand. He was so authoritative during the whole Boo arc when he really knew nothing and was one of the stupidest people during the whole ordeal. That boy literally let Spopovich and Yamu shank Gohan and suck the ki out of him like freakin' mosquitos. I could see his plan in tryin' to find their hiding spot by letting them do that but there's one big flaw in that. He saw Gohan's power and he knew Gohan could take them out yet he still screwed Gohan over like a freakin' dog in heat.