Ultimate Uncut Dub based on Ocean Studios Dub script?

[YamiAtomsk]

So on a whim I decided to watch the Funimation redub of Raditz's arrival with subtitles on to see how accurate it was. It wasn't too bad in the beginning but it slowly moved into the usual dub tactics of needlessly changing lines and adding dialogue whenever possible. Also weird errors like Raditz saying that Planet Vegeta blew up 3 years prior.

But one thing I started slowly noticing was that there were a bunch of lines from the old dub. Like "I smell death in the air", "I suppose you could make me angry", etc.

Is it possible that when re-dubbing those episodes they were using the old dub scripts as a base or were they deliberately using lines from the old dub for people who grew up with it?

[TheGreatness25]

I mean it's possible. Ultimate Uncut was still before they were in the business of translating DB more than adapting it. They still put in their own dub music (which I would say was a lot worse than the Faulconer score bit much better than the GT Menza score). The Ocean dub had its fans and it is the version that saw the series take off in popularity in the U.S. Throw all of that in a blender and I think they did stick to a lot of the Ocean-era script. I noticed that too. But thankfully, they got rid of the brilliant scientist thing.

[Metalwario64]

It's pretty clear they just took the old scripts and went from there. Towards the end they start adding more swearing to make it "more uncut", but it's clear that their intention wasn't to have more accurate scripts, but to simply make an "uncut" version of the old dub for "consistency".

Their movies 1 and 2 dubs were quite close to the Pioneer scripts, but for movie 3, they adapted the TV dub of the movie, which is weird when an uncut and faithful dub already existed, but it seems they just wanted to be as "close" to the old dub as possible, which was still their MO at the time.

[Hellspawn28]

I remember watching the Ultimate Uncut in 2005 on TV (I already had the first DVD volume before it air on TV) and remember being let down on how crappy that Ultimate Uncut dub was. I just remember sometime in 2003 or 2004 that Funimation would give us a English uncut version of the Saiyan and Namek saga. Not to mention, the music that they use was awful. For a dub that would air around 11 PM, they should have just keep the Japanese music.

[ABED]

There are a few scripts that are close to the original. If I recall, one or both of the episodes dealing with the mirrored ship had accurate scripts.

[TheGreatness25]

I don't really have a problem with the way they went about it because had they done a more faithful adaptation, it wouldn't fit in with the rest of the series. I actually like that there are basically two different versions of the show (dub and Japanese version) because it lets me enjoy BOTH separately. If it were done more faithfully, then the Japanese version might be disregarded or the dub might be since neither of them would have individual selling points that make that version unique from the other. At least that's my take on the dub. I guess it's a pretty overly-positive glass half full outlook that I developed when it was clear that the dub was going off-course.

My actual problem was that it wasn't "dub" enough. It falls in this strange in-between area that doesn't fit with either the Japanese version nor dub version. For one thing, the music is a drastic departure from Bruce Faulconer. If you're not going to appease the Japanese fans, why would you stay away from the established dub music in the process? Then the intro was ultra hardcore, which is how DBZ was promoted, but it never actually bled into the series before in such an in-your-face way. Finally, the minor swearing -- while faithful to the Japanese version -- also clashed with the dub. Suddenly they go from swearing to not? Oh, and the voices. I give credit to Sean Schemmel for "youthening" his Goku, but was Chris Sabat on a mission to make his Vegeta sound 10 times deeper than in end-of-Z? I wouldn't want him to go all "He's coming back with Captain Ginyu" Season 3, but at least sound like you did in the Cyborg arc.

In the end, the Ultimate Uncut just was never meant to be FUNimation's transition into a faithful dub. This was only 2005, after all. They wanted a consistent (how ironic) version of the show where all of the voice acting, from start to finish, was done by the same cast and so that there would be no edited out parts. However, it didn't exactly make for a seamless viewing experience, as the transition from Ultimate Uncut to the Captain Ginyu Saga is really jarring when you watch it through.

[ABED]

The dub is a Frankenstein monster so having a faithful script would've have felt as odd as anything else they did.

then the Japanese version might be disregarded or the dub might be since neither of them would have individual selling points that make that version unique from the other
It's job isn't to be unique, it's to be the show. I wouldn't call the Z dub unique. I'd call it "special", if you will.

[NitroEX]

I'm starting to believe that Funimation might not have even had access to proper translators for their dub scripts until after they dubbed GT and the early Z material. I know that they had a good subtitle translator but writing dub scripts and subtitles are two different things so it likely would have cost them more time and money than they were willing to spare. They probably just stuck with the convenient option of using Saban's scripts where possible and translated everything else from the Mexican dubbed footage.

[TheGreatness25]

It's job isn't to be unique, it's to be the show. I wouldn't call the Z dub unique. I'd call it "special", if you will.

Um okay. I guess you were handing out the job assignments. Whatever its job was or wasn't, FUNimation created a second version of the show where I can enjoy either the Japanese or the dub. I couldn't care less what people perceive was FUNimation's obligation to the show or to them, the point is that they did what they did and I found a way to enjoy it.

If one didn't enjoy FUNimation's "alternative" story, then it really doesn't make a dog's nutsack worth of difference what they did with Ultimate Uncut because those fans wouldn't watch it either way. The Japanese version still exists.

[ABED]

It's job isn't to be unique, it's to be the show. I wouldn't call the Z dub unique. I'd call it "special", if you will.

Um okay. I guess you were handing out the job assignments. Whatever its job was or wasn't, FUNimation created a second version of the show where I can enjoy either the Japanese or the dub. I couldn't care less what people perceive was FUNimation's obligation to the show or to them, the point is that they did what they did and I found a way to enjoy it.

If one didn't enjoy FUNimation's "alternative" story, then it really doesn't make a dog's nutsack worth of difference what they did with Ultimate Uncut because those fans wouldn't watch it either way. The Japanese version still exists.

It would make a difference as what we were calling for was an accurate version of the show.

This isn't like adapting a novel, the show was already written and animated thus making a dub company's job to adapt it as faithfully as they can. Sarcasm, really? No soup for you.

[TheGreatness25]

I'm just saying that it's pretty arrogant to tell someone what a company's job was. If that was their job, then they wouldn't make new music for the show nor make any of the dubbing decisions that they made. So clearly, your interpretation of what their job was is quite different from what they believed it was.

You must think Power Rangers did just a god awful job then lol

Anyway, as I said: regardless, we have what we have and if people can't live with it, then the Japanese version exists. Many people do like what they've done with it, so hooray. The Ultimate Uncut release, though, kind of did its own thing separate from both visions of it, so it always came off a little weird for me.

[ABED]

I'm just saying that it's pretty arrogant to tell someone what a company's job was. If that was their job, then they wouldn't make new music for the show nor make any of the dubbing decisions that they made. So clearly, your interpretation of what their job was is quite different from what they believed it was.

You must think Power Rangers did just a god awful job then lol

Anyway, as I said: regardless, we have what we have and if people can't live with it, then the Japanese version exists. Many people do like what they've done with it, so hooray. The Ultimate Uncut release, though, kind of did its own thing separate from both visions of it, so it always came off a little weird for me.

You can find people who like anything. DB's popularity is a testament to its quality and characters, and would have been so even if the changes FUNi made hadn't been done, dub fans would've just been a fan of that. And it's not arrogant to say what their job is. If I don't like a chef's cooking, I have every right to tell them the food isn't good.

Power Rangers is very different. It's not an adaptation of Super Sentai. They simply take footage and create their own stories. The Dragon Ball dub is just that, a dub of an existing series.

[TheGreatness25]

If you want to roll with the example you gave, it's as if you go to a Chinese food place and start complaining that the chef doesn't cook sushi. Nobody forced you to ever watch the dub. Nobody told you that it was faithful or translated with the strictest of faithfulness. Nobody told you that they wouldn't change names or make their own music for it. If you don't like it, we'll lucky you -- the Japanese version still exists and is readily available thanks to the company whose "job" it is to make an accurate dub.

Sometimes people act like FUNimation wasn't aware of what they were doing; like they weren't aware that they were changing the music. Believe me, they were aware. That means that the bosses at that company told people that their JOB was to make their own version of it using the animation as the backbone.

They took the show and said, "This is wonderful! People will love this!" But then said, "I'm not so sure about all that audio, though." Well, they gave you the animation lol

So this is turning into the 71,693,553,128,091,772nd dub conversation, so let's steer away from that. But I will say that regardless of how you feel, "Ultimate Uncut" was a pure dub campaign, so if you don't like the dub, it clearly wasn't for you.

[ABED]

If you want to roll with the example you gave, it's as if you go to a Chinese food place and start complaining that the chef doesn't cook sushi. Nobody forced you to ever watch the dub. Nobody told you that it was faithful or translated with the strictest of faithfulness. Nobody told you that they wouldn't change names or make their own music for it. If you don't like it, we'll lucky you -- the Japanese version still exists and is readily available thanks to the company whose "job" it is to make an accurate dub.

Sometimes people act like FUNimation wasn't aware of what they were doing; like they weren't aware that they were changing the music. Believe me, they were aware. That means that the bosses at that company told people that their JOB was to make their own version of it using the animation as the backbone.

They took the show and said, "This is wonderful! People will love this!" But then said, "I'm not so sure about all that audio, though." Well, they gave you the animation lol

So this is turning into the 71,693,553,128,091,772nd dub conversation, so let's steer away from that. But I will say that regardless of how you feel, "Ultimate Uncut" was a pure dub campaign, so if you don't like the dub, it clearly wasn't for you.

That chef example isn't the same thing.

The fact that the Japanese version exists doesn't give them carte blanche to create a different show. Your constant "you have the Japanese version" is weak sauce. Their characterizations often clash with the images and the character's actions.

[TheGreatness25]

Okay, you won't change your position and I won't change mine. All I'm saying is that you shouldn't tell me what their job was because guess what: if their job was to perfectly translate the series, they wouldn't have made all of the decisions that they made. That's all I'm saying. Just because you think it should've been handled a certain way doesn't mean that it's their job to do it that way. How arrogant does that sound?

And yes, they have carte blanche to create a different show because Toei allowed them to. "Americanizing" a series was the way things are done back then, so if Toei cars about the integrity of its series, they would've made clauses in their contact regarding how the property should be treated; especially after what they did in the very first dub. But Toei continued on with them right? So yes, that actually does give FUNimation all the right in the world to create their own show. Sure, not by your standards, but to be blunt, they really don't care what you or I say; they care what their bank account says just like any other company in the world. Did Toei have carte blanche to make filler for the series? Clearly they did. Toei changed a lot of the story, so what's the problem?

[ABED]

Okay, you won't change your position and I won't change mine. All I'm saying is that you shouldn't tell me what their job was because guess what: if their job was to perfectly translate the series, they wouldn't have made all of the decisions that they made. That's all I'm saying. Just because you think it should've been handled a certain way doesn't mean that it's their job to do it that way. How arrogant does that sound?

And yes, they have carte blanche to create a different show because Toei allowed them to. "Americanizing" a series was the way things are done back then, so if Toei cars about the integrity of its series, they would've made clauses in their contact regarding how the property should be treated; especially after what they did in the very first dub. But Toei continued on with them right? So yes, that actually does give FUNimation all the right in the world to create their own show. Sure, not by your standards, but to be blunt, they really don't care what you or I say; they care what their bank account says just like any other company in the world. Did Toei have carte blanche to make filler for the series? Clearly they did. Toei changed a lot of the story, so what's the problem?

You have yet to explain how that's arrogant. I could just as easily argue that it's arrogant of them to take a show and try and improve the writing and the comedy. I know shows were "Americanized" back then and to those shows' detriments. Would you stop bringing up the legalities. I'm well aware that FUNi held the license and what they were legally allowed to do, that's not what we're talking about here. Toei didn't really change a whole lot of the story. They just added to it and that isn't the same thing. In that case, they were adapting the story from one medium to another and wrote the scripts and animated the images with those scripts in mind.

I'm glad that the ultimate uncut dub at least got rid of lines like "Your father was a brilliant scientist," a line that is a great example of the kind of thing FUNi wouldn't have done if they did their jobs properly.

Does anyone remember if the UUSE kept lines like Roshi's "I smell death in the air"?

[TheGreatness25]

Oh so if FUNimation had legal right to do what they did, maybe you should change the way you phrase it. Are you saying that FUNimation committed a moral wrong by changing it up? I'm not understanding your argument.

How was FUNimation arrogant? They never said that they were making the series better. They were unsure how people would react to it, so they did what they felt would get it noticed by the most amount of their demographics.

Your statements are arrogant because you concede that FUNimation had legal right to do their dub, I'm sure you're aware that all of their decisions were intentional rather than accidental, and yet you still speak as if what you think they should've done with the series what you think they should've done. By you saying they didn't do their job, you're saying that everyone involved in it has no idea what they're doing and is incompetent. They were told to do what they did, so yeah, you are being arrogant. If you get told what to do by your boss, you wouldn't like it if some nobody came strolling up to you, yelling at you about how you're not doing your job right according to their notion of what you should be doing. You didn't run FUNimation, so please stop talking as if they're all incompetent and don't know what their job is.

Now, with that said, all of this is moot. We're talking about something that happened 11 years ago. We all have access to the original Japanese version. We all have access to the dub with Japanese music (since 2007, actually), and we all know that they're probably not going to redub the whole thing, especially since we have Kai and they have a bunch of other material to get cracking on.

By the by, this all started when you took it upon yourself to criticize my enjoyment of the series. Yeah, I'm aware that it's not faithful to the original; thanks for the update. But don't take it upon yourself to tell me how to enjoy it. Kay kay? But really, no hard feelings. You just come in all strong and to be honest with you, it's kind of annoying. I get that I can probably be annoying too, but it'll be a cold day in hell before I think I have any right to trash talk how someone chooses to enjoy a cartoon.

[ABED]

How was FUNimation arrogant? They never said that they were making the series better. They were unsure how people would react to it, so they did what they felt would get it noticed by the most amount of their demographics.

How was I being arrogant? They weren't sure how people would react to the show, then why buy it if you don't think people will be interested?

You didn't run FUNimation, so please stop talking as if they're all incompetent and don't know what their job is.

So I can't say their product was terrible because that's arrogant? It's completely irrelevant if they made those changes intentionally.

it'll be a cold day in hell before I think I have any right to trash talk how someone chooses to enjoy a cartoon.

I didn't trash talk you. And I didn't criticize YOU enjoying that version, I was critical of that version. I see these changes in the same light as changing the aspect ratio. Legally they have that right, but they shouldn't.

[TheGreatness25]

But I'm aware of its shortcomings. It's not something that you're adding. I'm saying that despite all of those things, I choose to enjoy it a certain way. No reason for you to swoop in to tell me how much that version is such a travesty to the series, especially since that wasn't the point of my post.

[ABED]

But I'm aware of its shortcomings. It's not something that you're adding. I'm saying that despite all of those things, I choose to enjoy it a certain way. No reason for you to swoop in to tell me how much that version is such a travesty to the series, especially since that wasn't the point of my post.

And I never said you weren't allowed to enjoy it. I know what the point of your post was.

This version does occupy a weird space but I'll take it over season 3 any day and as bland as the score was, I'll take it over Faulconer's.