Bruce Faulconer vs. the rest...

[firen]

First of all let me start by saying i understand no one here really likes the dubbed music but please hear me out. Or at least make me understand, why is the original music better? Maybe give me some recommendations.

Personally, I think Falcouner puts a lot of emotion into all of his songs...boy do i love most if not all of his work.

Just take a listen to "Super Namek," "SSJ3 Powerup," "Cell and Piccolo face off," "Earth Music," "Gohan's Angers 2," "Pikkon's Theme," "The Makyo Star." "Nail's Gift," "Gohan fights Frieza," "King Cold," "Trunks Arrives." and more. So you kind of get the idea where i am going with this.

What do you guys think, how well has Faulconer done to truly represent DBZ. Oh and I have only listened maybe one or two of the Japanese orginal soundtracks. So it's hard to say if i will like it but every piece of music Faulconer has does, personally, has been very emotionally or at least fits the character or situation well. Oh and if you would can you please name the other composers that either you felt did a better job or were just more faithful.

Oh and if you do hate it, why?

[Kaboom]

Personally, I like Faulconer's stuff. There's a lot that seems innapropriate for the moment or just doesn't fit, but, oh well, what ya gonna do? Music wise, it's still pretty good.

All I know is that duing the Kid Buu saga (dub), when Goku jumps up to SSj3 and the music was playing, I just knew then and there that Buu was about to get his @$$ handed to him. In that sense, a lot of his music does indeed portray the right emotion.

I think the reason people don't like is just that it's not like the original. I'm not saying they're wrong (or, god forbid, calling the original inferior), but it just seems a bit stingy and silly to me to dislike a show being presented in a slightly different manner.

[firen]

Personally, I like Faulconer's stuff. There's a lot that seems innapropriate for the moment or just doesn't fit, but, oh well, what ya gonna do? Music wise, it's still pretty good.

All I know is that duing the Kid Buu saga (dub), when Goku jumps up to SSj3 and the music was playing, I just knew then and there that Buu was about to get his @$$ handed to him. In that sense, a lot of his music does indeed portray the right emotion.

I think the reason people don't like is just that it's not like the original. I'm not saying they're wrong (or, god forbid, calling the original inferior), but it just seems a bit stingy and silly to me to dislike a show being presented in a slightly different manner.

Exactly how I feel. Thanks for your insight, i'm happy to know there is some fan that actually likes his work.

[kenisu3000]

Actually, as much as I love the Japanese BGM to death, I also enjoy Faulconer's soundtrack - just on a different plane. And I really do believe that out of the numerous composers the dub has had, Faulconer's is the one that has the most thought put into it.
Peter Berring's soundtrack for the original DragonBall suffered from the usual " random piano-plinking" that most 90's dubbed anime are known for (though I did enjoy his recap music, and EVERYONE loves the theme song - though I don't know if that was Berring's doing); Shuki Levy's Ocean dub score was a joke (except for a couple of compositions, most notably the music when Goku first arrives at the scene of the Saiyan battle); then we got Bruce Faulconer; and then for GT and the Ultimate Uncut seasons of DBZ, they switched to some other guy, and back we went to the piano-plinking.

Bruce Faulconer *definitely, hands-down* did the best job on the dub score.

[VegettoEX]

I don't like Faulconer's music because I don't watch the dub and have absolutely zero attachment to the music in any kind of way what-so-ever.

I don't see why it has to go beyond that. Dub fans have been using that excuse about the original Japanese score forever.

[Steven Perry]

I don't know why VeggetoEX said "don't talk about Bruce Faulconer" in the rules section, because he is the best. When I think Dragonball Z, I think "Bruce Faulconer." I totally agree with you, firen; Faulconer puts lots of emotion into his music. Hell, he's even better than some movie composers with his Piccolo theme.

Ahh... Mecha Frieza's theme... So gooooood. Oh yeah, and "Prelude To Terror". Now that was the best instrumental.

VegettoEX (and anyone else who doesn't listen to Bruce), I recommend that you start watchin' episodes with Faulconer's music in it. Instead, VeggetoEX would rather to listen to the Red Ribbon Army. I didn't want to start a thread like this, 'cause I was scared. But now, I'm not.

[VegettoEX]

Where do I tell you to not talk about Bruce Faulconer? You're totally making things up, now.

I completely dislike that style of music, and I have zero-interest in watching the dub, nevermind throwing myself into its music. Why is this such a problem for dub fans? I don't care that it exists, and I don't care that other people love it so much... but I don't care about *it*.

What irritates me is when dub fans start getting all superior about it, and totally forget that the vast majority of countries throughout the world *don't* have FUNimation's dub, *don't* know who Bruce Faulconer is, and *don't* give a rat's ass. It is but one minor version among dozens and dozens of others. That's simply not DBZ to them, and you can't place any blame what-so-ever on them for it.

Creating a strange analogy, for fans of the show pre-Toonami and pre-Season 3, the "new" FUNimation dub is almost like watching some other country's dub. It's not "my dub" for "me". It's something completely foreign. "My dub" will forever be the original Ocean dub, because that's the first one I saw. That's the music that has sentimental meaning to me, those are the voices that have sentimental meaning to me, etc. By the time FUNimation's "new" dub came around, I was already more than full-force into the original Japanese version, so I already had (1) "the original" and (2) "my dub". What do I care about the new dub? It's not for me. I've already seen all this stuff. I've already gotten attachments to voices and music for both versions.

I think kenisu3000 summed up a few great points, and I'd mostly defer to that. It's not that I couldn't appreciate it if I wanted... I just don't want to. I'm sure the Star Wars movies are great, and I can see why they have so many fans... but I have no interest in them.

Getting back to the original topic creator, I think you're going down the completely wrong route when you ask which is "better". It's a completely subjective topic, and no-one can give you an "answer" to it. It's all in what one is predisposed to, what one cares about, what one chooses to further involve themself in, etc.

And for the record:

Faulconer puts lots of emotion into his music

Yeah, and Uwe Ball puts a lot of emotion into his films.

*ZING*

[t0ffe3m4n]

Everything he did prior to and after the Andriod/Cell saga is forgettable really. Did he do the score for Movie 8? That was another dub soundtrack that I liked I guess..

[firen]

Where do I tell you to not talk about Bruce Faulconer? You're totally making things up, now.

I completely dislike that style of music, and I have zero-interest in watching the dub, nevermind throwing myself into its music. Why is this such a problem for dub fans? I don't care that it exists, and I don't care that other people love it so much... but I don't care about *it*.

What irritates me is when dub fans start getting all superior about it, and totally forget that the vast majority of countries throughout the world *don't* have FUNimation's dub, *don't* know who Bruce Faulconer is, and *don't* give a rat's ass. It is but one minor version among dozens and dozens of others. That's simply not DBZ to them, and you can't place any blame what-so-ever on them for it.

Creating a strange analogy, for fans of the show pre-Toonami and pre-Season 3, the "new" FUNimation dub is almost like watching some other country's dub. It's not "my dub" for "me". It's something completely foreign. "My dub" will forever be the original Ocean dub, because that's the first one I saw. That's the music that has sentimental meaning to me, those are the voices that have sentimental meaning to me, etc. By the time FUNimation's "new" dub came around, I was already more than full-force into the original Japanese version, so I already had (1) "the original" and (2) "my dub". What do I care about the new dub? It's not for me. I've already seen all this stuff. I've already gotten attachments to voices and music for both versions.

I think kenisu3000 summed up a few great points, and I'd mostly defer to that. It's not that I couldn't appreciate it if I wanted... I just don't want to. I'm sure the Star Wars movies are great, and I can see why they have so many fans... but I have no interest in them.

Getting back to the original topic creator, I think you're going down the completely wrong route when you ask which is "better". It's a completely subjective topic, and no-one can give you an "answer" to it. It's all in what one is predisposed to, what one cares about, what one chooses to further involve themself in, etc.

And for the record:

Faulconer puts lots of emotion into his music

Yeah, and Uwe Ball puts a lot of emotion into his films.

*ZING*

That's funny, you said you haven't seen the new dub yet you hate his music. You haven't given it a chance to even make an intelligent decision. Instead you just hate it to begin with, give it a chance at least. Oh and I'm NOT telling you to like it or anything close to that. I just wanted to see if people here actually DO like it. If not, that's fine I just wanted a reason and you gave me your reason and that' fine but taking a crack at Faulconer's music before given it a chance is not right. Don't you think? But ya I will definetly look into the original score and even check out the dub your talking about just to experience it from another DBZ fan's point of view. Anyways I didn't mean to sound like a jerk or try to start fights here, I figured since this a forum we should discuss these kind of things. In fact it would be cool if you can talk about in your next podcast. Although that seems unlikely since you despise his music apparently. By the way, if you can't tell I'm new to this place and so far I love it. But I was wondering if you are going to have podcast where you talk about the different scores from different dubs. If not, that's cool but at least don't hate something that you haven't given a chance.


Thanks

Everything he did prior to and after the Andriod/Cell saga is forgettable really. Did he do the score for Movie 8? That was another dub soundtrack that I liked I guess..

True everything after Freeza saga is when things got really better for him. If any of you have the Falcouner dub watch episode 169 "Children of Cell Attack" where 16 tells Hercule/Mr.Satan to go and throw his head near the fighters and then where Android 16 gives gohan the speech to final unleash his powers and some of you will see what I mean when i see Faulconer adds emotion to his music

[Sebastian (SB)]

Faulconer puts lots of emotion into his music

Yeah, and Uwe Boll puts a lot of emotion into his films.

*ZING*

I myself, had first DBZ exposure to the Ocean Group dub, but I "grew" up with the FUNi dub, they were some themes that I did like & at the time the music was good. Then I saw the Japanese version, fell in love with it's "original/orchestral" themes. It felt like watching one of those old kung fu films which was really cool & well suited for DB & DBZ. Another thing I liked what they did in the Japanese version was, at certain scenes, they would put no music at all ....just complete silence... & personally I thought conveyed the emotion the best (As mentioned by forum member "Jerseymilk" mentioned a really while back). Especially at scenes where two fighters were standing off & looking at each other at their defensive postions ,not being able to find a weakness in their defense, & thus in turn not being able to make a move (The Cell vs. Son Goku fight warm up is a great example of this). It really builded a "montonic" sense of things, meaning the tension & mood just really grew & grew, then the music will initiate. Whether it would be, battle music or music of despair, whatever you wanna call it. All I know is that Shunsuke Kikuchi does a good job with handling Toriyama-sensei work when it's translated in animation form. It's quite exhilarating really. Another example of this was when No.16 gave his last dying words to Son Gohan before going Super Saiya-jin 2. In the end, as much as I appreciate Faulconer's own style, I like Kikuchi's style more.

Also I think this topic should be changed to "Bruce Faulconer" or "Shunsuke Kikichi". It should be more of a preference than a "VS." topic. Also I don't think VegettoEX or any other forum members might appreciate that. (Alas, going back to my "Super DBZ" or "Sparking NEO!" topic)

I think the reason people don't like is just that it's not like the original. I'm not saying they're wrong (or, god forbid, calling the original inferior), but it just seems a bit stingy and silly to me to dislike a show being presented in a slightly different manner.

Actually I think it was part of why the show was presented in a somewhat significant change (as well as light editing, scripting, & as well as some of the voice actors). As mentioned above, Faulconer has his own style, so the show more or less felt different. While the basic main plot was conveyed well in the dub, you have very 2 different styles (being Kikuchi & Faulconer) that, in my opinion, convey different emotions, impressions, or reactions in different scenes. I guess I'm just one of those people that believe that the BGM plays a major significance in the outcome of a series. I mean, who the hell would want to hear" Bowling for Soup" over "Masaaki Endo" & "Hironobu Kageyama" in "Saint Seiya"

[VegettoEX]

That's funny, you said you haven't seen the new dub yet you hate his music. You haven't given it a chance to even make an intelligent decision. Instead you just hate it to begin with, give it a chance at least. Oh and I'm NOT telling you to like it or anything close to that. I just wanted to see if people here actually DO like it. If not, that's fine I just wanted a reason and you gave me your reason and that' fine but taking a crack at Faulconer's music before given it a chance is not right. Don't you think? But ya I will definetly look into the original score and even check out the dub your talking about just to experience it from another DBZ fan's point of view. Anyways I didn't mean to sound like a jerk or try to start fights here, I figured since this a forum we should discuss these kind of things. In fact it would be cool if you can talk about in your next podcast. Although that seems unlikely since you despise his music apparently. By the way, if you can't tell I'm new to this place and so far I love it. But I was wondering if you are going to have podcast where you talk about the different scores from different dubs. If not, that's cool but at least don't hate something that you haven't given a chance.

I never said I haven't seen the "new" dub (FUNimation post-1999). That would be an extremely gross inaccuracy. I've subjected myself to... err... seen... *plenty* of it.

I know *you're* not forcing any opinion on someone, but it comes off that way from OTHER people (not necessarily in this thread, either). I totally understand you're looking to see if other people enjoy that music, and there's nothing wrong with that at all. The thread just happened to shift that way . There is indeed this thread where members of this very forum are discussing some of the Faulconer pieces they like.

[MajinVejitaXV]

I think the reason people don't like is just that it's not like the original. I'm not saying they're wrong (or, god forbid, calling the original inferior), but it just seems a bit stingy and silly to me to dislike a show being presented in a slightly different manner.

Not really. Personally, and I watched the dub from Faulconer's debut until Vejita's death in the Buu saga, I just...didn't like it. I'm a musician myself, and from that perspective while he wasn't terrible, his themes seemed generally...uninspired?

I know the original score to DragonBall Z recycled a lot of themes, but they were memorable. Cha La, We Gotta Power, Spirit vs. Spirit, Solid State Scouter, Hikari no Tabi, Aoi Kaze no Hope, Piccolo's Theme, Battle Power Infinity...I could keep going. They stick with you. They're an important part of the overall presentation. You've got actual instrumental arrangements. Vocals. They're labors of love for their composers, and it shows.

Faulconer's work, on the other hand, is most synth. This isn't a horrible thing, but while there's a couple of standout themes (Vejita's SSJ theme, uh...the intro, which I only remember because the Freeza saga had it blaring every 5 minutes...and...?) most just wasn't memorable. I think that's my problem with the FUNi version in general. It just...fades from memory. Sure, we all remember the really bad moments, but as a whole, if DBZ was a U.S. show only, I wouldn't buy it.

So, I agree with Mike. I don't care if people like it, different strokes for different folks. Just don't try and insult me because I can't remember the arrangement to 'Piccolo Angry!' or whatever ;p

-Corey

[firen]

Thanks for your opinion guys, i truly appreciate it. Oh and "VegettoEX" I was wondering if you were going to have maybe a podcast where you have live music reviews that covers all the way from Original music to Faulconers?

Thanks

[VegettoEX]

Thanks for your opinion guys, i truly appreciate it. Oh and "VegettoEX" I was wondering if you were going to have maybe a podcast where you have live music reviews that covers all the way from Original music to Faulconers?

I (and my cast-mates) really don't have enough interest in Faulconer to honestly carry a conversation on it, and can't authoritatively speak on it. I'd say it's a good bet that we won't do an episode regarding Faulconer's BGM .

[Castor Troy]

Faulconer puts lots of emotion into his music

Yeah, and Uwe Ball puts a lot of emotion into his films.

*ZING*

Uwe Ball Z is a scary thought.

[firen]

Thanks for your opinion guys, i truly appreciate it. Oh and "VegettoEX" I was wondering if you were going to have maybe a podcast where you have live music reviews that covers all the way from Original music to Faulconers?

I (and my cast-mates) really don't have enough interest in Faulconer to honestly carry a conversation on it, and can't authoritatively speak on it. I'd say it's a good bet that we won't do an episode regarding Faulconer's BGM .

Fair enough. I will have to give the origianl score a chance. Anyone know where i can get samples and maybe even the whole package? (all original bgm). Also, what about the one you were talking about VegettoEX. The Ocean dub...which exactly is that? Was the one in Canada? If so did you like that as good the orignal?

Once again i'd like to thank for having such a site and this messageboard. It's nice to discuss about one of my all time favorite shows.

[VegettoEX]

Also, what about the one you were talking about VegettoEX. The Ocean dub...which exactly is that? Was the one in Canada? If so did you like that as good the orignal?

The dub I'm referring to specifically was FUNimation's original dub of DBZ from 1996-1998. They employed Ocean Studios to provide their voices, and Shuki Levy to provide the musical score.

This is not to be confused with the dub done primarily for Europe (and in a few indirect ways Canada) circa 2001(?) that went back and hired Ocean Studios to provide the voices for an "alternate" English dub. This began by using some music from the old Megaman cartoon.

[Mr. Announcer]

Ah yeah, well I have to say I wouldn't even give Faulconer credit on a musical level. I remember when they first made the switchover how weird it was to hear this really synthesized stuff that just didn't seem to fit at all. Of course, I had always been a bit bitter that the first dub never used Cha-la but after Faulconer stepped in it just got super odd. My epiphany came as I was watching an episode of the cell saga where imperfect Cell is just running along on his merry way killing people and stuff and they started playing his theme music. I was like "What the hell? This thing is just blips and bloops with a few changes in pitch." After a while I realized that pretty much all the songs were like that. I mean, I was never really into the whole hardcore attitude that the new dub tried to pull off and I was used to the first dub's score and the original score that actually used real instruments. And the fact that Dragonball had pretty much been using the same style of music since the begining linked DBZ to an older generation which I think is important to the show's charm. I just like music with a tune and faulconer's music was too artificial for me. And the fact that it was played almost constantly throughout the episodes didn't help either.

This isn't to say I don't like any of it at all. I think that one theme for the fight between Gokuh and Paikuhan was alright but that7s about as far as it goes.

[Jerseymilk]

Well I have a lot of the same opinions as Mr Announcer concerning this. Plus I apparently was referred to a few posts above, so I think people here know that I prefer the Japanese original score. And yes, I think that silence at appropriate times can sometimes convey tension and drama just as much as music. I think it's unfortunate that companies here seem to think that North Americans have such short attention spans that they need constant, exciteable music going on in the background all the time. Quite frankly, I find it insulting to my intelligence.

I want to back up Mr. Announcer here as well on the fact that to me, whenever I watch the Funi dub, Falcouner's music really just sounds like playing around on a keyboard. To put it bluntly, it sounds "B-movie-ish cheap". I just get the feeling whenever I hear it that not a lot of effort was put into it. That's not to say there haven't been a few tracks of his that I've liked. Piccolo's Theme for one I think was really nice.

The main reason that I don't like it though is the same as Mr. Announcer. I hate the air it gives off. "Look at how BADASS DBZ is! Ya, it's so American hardcore! We ROCK!" I just find it funny how DB can convey that it's definitely a male-ish anime in the Japanese version without resorting to putting a "WWF soundtrack" in. The only reason I can think of for the dub doing it is that Americans are extremely insecure about their masculinity, now how that would apply to females I haven't figured out yet. >.>

Lastly I'll say that I prefer the Japanese version's score since it reminds me of all the old anime I used to watch as a little kid. From Unico to Fables of the Green Forest. More of that classic anime music touch to it. Just really light-hearted and adventurous sounding and I always find it enjoyable.

[Snail]

I just noticed something, I recognized some background music tracks from ' Mighty Morphin Power Rangers ' which some, were carried onto the Dragonball Z Ocean dub. Strange.