Kuririn wasn't dumb

[RedRibbonSoldier#42]

In the several recent "characters being dumb" discussions, I've seen "Kuririn not destroying 18" keep popping up. But this wasn't stupid, it was the noble/brave thing to do. Kuririn was the only person to treat the androids as actual people and not just as monsters or absorption targets. By destroying the remote, he was taking a risk on 18's morality and giving her a second chance. He was essentially trusting her to not be a heartless murderer and wipe out humanity. People say it was reckless because it let Cell absorb her and become complete, but this to me sounds like that hogwash "needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" mentality. Being chased by an evil monster is not a crime, and shouldn't be punished like one. Destroying 18 might have saved the world easily, but then 18, 17 and by extension Marron wouldn't exist. Letting her go and defeating Cell anyway is riskier and tougher, but the right path.

Besides, the whole point would be moot anyway if Vegeta didn't let Cell absorb her, which really was dumb.

[LightBing]

It wasn't dumb, it was a moral choice. I wouldn't say it was the right thing to do, it depends entirely on each person views. I agree with Kuririn's choice, killing an innocent person to save others doesn't work for me.

While Kuririn had feelings for #18, his choice wasn't based on them. He knew the Androids didn't do anything wrong and weren't evil. He stayed true to himself and tried to save her instead of sacrificing her.

[In Brightest Day]

RedRibbonSoldier#42, great analysis!

Krillin is actually more of a hero than either Goku or Vegeta.

[dbzfan7]

If it comes to one individual vs the world, the world wins every single time. Vegeta is way worse than Krillin, but really I ain't so sure Krillin woulda done it if that were 17 there. Pretty sure he wouldn't.

[GodKaio-Ken]

He let her live because he wanted to nail her....period. I'm not even joking. It was obvious he had a thing for her, it had nothing to do with morality. Had it been her brother in the same scenario or both Androids were male I bet he acts different.

[RedRibbonSoldier#42]

If it comes to one individual vs the world, the world wins every single time.

If it is not right to sacrifice one person to save another single person, then it also isn't right to sacrifice one person to save the whole world.

He let her live because he wanted to nail her....period. I'm not even joking. It was obvious he had a thing for her, it had nothing to do with morality. Had it been her brother in the same scenario or both Androids were male I bet he acts different.

After all the development of Kuririn we've seen, why do people still think he would make a decision that might doom his friends purely for the sake of sex?

[GodKaio-Ken]

If it comes to one individual vs the world, the world wins every single time.

If it is not right to sacrifice one person to save another single person, then it also isn't right to sacrifice one person to save the whole world.

He let her live because he wanted to nail her....period. I'm not even joking. It was obvious he had a thing for her, it had nothing to do with morality. Had it been her brother in the same scenario or both Androids were male I bet he acts different.

After all the development of Kuririn we've seen, why do people still think he would make a decision that might doom his friends purely for the sake of sex?

Because he is male. Being male I can tell you I'd do very idiotic things for girls I care for, including put lives in danger for their safety and I'm generally a good person I'd say.

[RedRibbonSoldier#42]

Because he is male.

This is hardly a sufficient justification. Male=/= sex crazed.

[GodKaio-Ken]

Because he is male.

This is hardly a sufficient justification. Male=/= sex crazed.

*Sigh*

So you think if she looked like a 600 pound human-gorilla hybrid he would have done the same? Vegeta was LESS evil than what they believed she would become and he was ready to destroy him rather than let him live.

[RedRibbonSoldier#42]

Because he is male.

This is hardly a sufficient justification. Male=/= sex crazed.

Vegeta was LESS evil than what they believed she would become and he was ready to destroy him rather than let him live.

That's part of my point, everyone saw the androids as killing machines but Kuririn alone considered them something more.

[dbzfan7]

If it comes to one individual vs the world, the world wins every single time.

If it is not right to sacrifice one person to save another single person, then it also isn't right to sacrifice one person to save the whole world.

Um not even close to the same thing. Save one person and essentially risk the entire planet, or kill one person, and save everyone else. It is completely right in a no win situation to do that. What kind of answer is "Fuck everyone if we can't prevent one death." One person for one person may not even be worth it if they're of equal value. But if it's one extremely worth while person who could say cure cancer vs some nobody, the cancer curer wins every time. Or if it's say a cure cancer guy vs homicidal maniac, the cancer guy again wins every time. I definitely don't want you to be in this spot if the world ever had this choice .

Also she was going to kill Goku, and didn't really show any sign of not wanting to do that til a bigger threat forced her not to. I think it could even be theorized the Future Cyborgs were killers, because they needed a purpose since Goku died before they could get to him. If not for Cell, the same thing likely woulda happened in the past too.

[In Brightest Day]

Yeah, Krillin knew Eighteen wasn't a murderer, whereas Vegeta was an evil dick at the time who by all rights deserved to die.

[Nejishiki]

Yeah, Krillin knew Eighteen wasn't a murderer, whereas Vegeta was an evil dick at the time who by all rights deserved to die.

You know, I've often seen opinions that Vegeta 'should have' died at Namek, but has anyone considered the thought of Cell killing him the first time, thus cutting him from standard revival? That has the potential to do wonders for the characters of Future Trunks and Goku, including choice commentary from Tenshinhan. It also serves as a non-standard character arc for Vegeta to never learn from his second chance of life. He grew worse instead, proving the protagonist, Son Goku, wrong about him once and for all. I wonder if Goku would feel obligated to lend a brief hand of conflicting empathy for Bluma, this happening to his first friend?

[Pantalones]

After all the development of Kuririn we've seen, why do people still think he would make a decision that might doom his friends purely for the sake of sex?

Because some people have this weird mindset about "what men are all like," an example of which has conveniently been posted right here in this thread already. I'll quote it, with some extra bits trimmed out just to make my point clearer:

Because he is male. Being male I can tell you I'd do very idiotic things for [girls], including put lives in danger.

Basically the people who assume Krillin only saved #18 out of some vague hope that he might somehow end up having sex with her as a result (or, to make Krillin -- or the people who are claiming this was the only thing going on in his head -- sound a bit less douchey-sex-crazed-idiot than that, a vague hope that a relationship between them might happen between them as a result) are projecting their own thoughts and feelings onto Krillin, entirely because both they and Krillin happen to be male. They're basically saying "well, screwin' random chicks I just met is all I care about, to the point where I'd do stupid or dangerous stuff just to make it happen... so why wouldn't Krillin be the same way?"

It's all a big load of BS, of course -- people are individuals and not everyone works that way. Not all guys magically turn into idiots whenever they're around a girl they like, or worse, a girl they just met and might find attractive in some superficial way. Not all guys have sex as a primary (or even secondary/tertiary/etc. etc.) motivation behind things they do. Males (and females for that matter) are not a hivemind of stereotypes, they're individuals. But some people have difficulty understanding that.

[MaxZ]

Totally agreed. It's not right to kill an innocent person, for any reason. Utilitarian thinking is just not something I can agree with. If you have to do something evil for some 'greater good', then maybe that 'greater good' isn't so good after all.

Although I will say 18 herself was kinda stupid during that arc, for constantly lagging around instead of trying to flee or hide, acting as though she 'couldn't leave 16' when she could easily just carry him effortlessly given how powerful she is. Though, this issue could be somewhat exaggerated by filler in the anime, I haven't read the entire manga.

[MaxZ]

After all the development of Kuririn we've seen, why do people still think he would make a decision that might doom his friends purely for the sake of sex?

Because some people have this weird mindset about "what men are all like," an example of which has conveniently been posted right here in this thread already. I'll quote it, with some extra bits trimmed out just to make my point clearer:

Because he is male. Being male I can tell you I'd do very idiotic things for [girls], including put lives in danger.

Basically the people who assume Krillin only saved #18 out of some vague hope that he might somehow end up having sex with her as a result (or, to make Krillin -- or the people who are claiming this was the only thing going on in his head -- sound a bit less douchey-sex-crazed-idiot than that, a vague hope that a relationship between them might happen between them as a result) are projecting their own thoughts and feelings onto Krillin, entirely because both they and Krillin happen to be male. They're basically saying "well, screwin' random chicks I just met is all I care about, to the point where I'd do stupid or dangerous stuff just to make it happen... so why wouldn't Krillin be the same way?"

It's all a big load of BS, of course -- people are individuals and not everyone works that way. Not all guys magically turn into idiots whenever they're around a girl they like, or worse, a girl they just met and might find attractive in some superficial way. Not all guys have sex as a primary (or even secondary/tertiary/etc. etc.) motivation behind things they do. Males (and females for that matter) are not a hivemind of stereotypes, they're individuals. But some people have difficulty understanding that.

this is also a great post. it ticks me off when people think so little of Krillin as a character to suggest that he just spared her "to get his dick wet"

not once anywhere in the series is it implied that Krillin thinks that way, that is just totally out of character. Krillin is reserved and thoughtful, and genuinely altruistic.

[Kanassa]

It was dumb because he risked the lives of everyone on the planet for somone he barely knew, someone who to his knowledge was only going to go on and kill others on the planet as well. And I also don't get the flak again killing one person to save the lives of billions. It's bad to kill the one person, but damning everyone else's lives for the sake of that one person isn't?

[MaxZ]

It was dumb because he risked the lives of everyone on the planet for somone he barely knew, someone who to his knowledge was only going to go on and kill others on the planet as well. And I also don't get the flak again killing one person to save the lives of billions. It's bad to kill the one person, but damning everyone else's lives for the sake of that one person isn't?

you should always try and find another way. it's not some magical made up scenario where you know for certain that if you don't do x the world will for sure be destroyed. there's uncertainty to all actual scenarios. that's why you should never do something evil for 'the greater good', because there's always a possibility that there's another way to achieve that end.

[Vegard Aune]

It was dumb because he risked the lives of everyone on the planet for somone he barely knew, someone who to his knowledge was only going to go on and kill others on the planet as well. And I also don't get the flak again killing one person to save the lives of billions. It's bad to kill the one person, but damning everyone else's lives for the sake of that one person isn't?

you should always try and find another way. it's not some magical made up scenario where you know for certain that if you don't do x the world will for sure be destroyed. there's uncertainty to all actual scenarios. that's why you should never do something evil for 'the greater good', because there's always a possibility that there's another way to achieve that end.

There are fifty snipers with guns aimed straight at you. A man is standing in front of you with a hostage. He is demanding that you kill this hostage or he will launch a missile on your hometown. If you try to do anything but kill his hostage, or you wait for too long, he's gonna have the snipers shoot you and then launch the missile anyway. The only way he is going to spare you or your hometown is if you kill the hostage. Now, do you still think killing the hostage would be unacceptable in this situation?

What happened in the Cell saga really wasn't all that different; by not killing 18, Kuririn at best put countless lives at stage by enabling the most powerful creature ever to walk the earth to be born. A creature who, by the way, fully intended to kill everyone. Whom, at that point in time, none of our heroes were even close to steong enough to defeat.

[jplaya2023]

In the several recent "characters being dumb" discussions, I've seen "Kuririn not destroying 18" keep popping up. But this wasn't stupid, it was the noble/brave thing to do. Kuririn was the only person to treat the androids as actual people and not just as monsters or absorption targets. By destroying the remote, he was taking a risk on 18's morality and giving her a second chance. He was essentially trusting her to not be a heartless murderer and wipe out humanity. People say it was reckless because it let Cell absorb her and become complete, but this to me sounds like that hogwash "needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" mentality. Being chased by an evil monster is not a crime, and shouldn't be punished like one. Destroying 18 might have saved the world easily, but then 18, 17 and by extension Marron wouldn't exist. Letting her go and defeating Cell anyway is riskier and tougher, but the right path.

Besides, the whole point would be moot anyway if Vegeta didn't let Cell absorb her, which really was dumb.

it was dumb because his selfishness (like vegeta) almost got everyone killed

krilian hits that switch, 18 blows up, vegeta kills 2nd form cell world = saved. Then krilian could've wished her back and as a special service get her human parts back