What material is included in Super but is NOT by Toriyama?

[LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta]

So the question is whats not by toriyama in super, and furthermore do you consider it "canon" if It's just by toei and not toriyama. I have a feeling things like copy vegeta and the universal punches eventually destroying the universe was toei, seams not to fit what toriyama was going for. copy vegeta and the universe thing are not in the manga, and the universe thing doesn't fit with supreme kai from what I see due to the connection thing to beerus.

So would you call super's stuff not from toriyama canon? What do you think they made up?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Dragon Ball Z: God & God/Battle of Gods - Special Edition
Dragon Ball Z: Resurrection "F" - Volume "F" Script
Dragon Ball Super - Manga Chapters 5-???

These are the closest available-to-the-public versions to Toriyama's stories, so that would be my "Super canon".

[THEGOKU]

I've often wondered this myself to know exactly what he brought to the table in terms of Super. Although the Copy Vegeta stuff was very clear that it was not done by Toriyama but by Toei.

[LightBing]

What I go by is that if it's in both the manga and the anime it's definitely from Mr.Toriyama. Ambiguous material like Goku turning SSJG in the manga and using Kaioken in the anime, it's wide open because Mr.Toriyama didn't specify. The only point we can ascertain was to make Vegeta ten times weaker than Goku.

[Bullza]

If it's in the anime AND the manga then it's most likely by Toriyama.

The universe threatening punches were in both versions. The Copy Water arc was almost definitely filler. As was Mr Satan telling the reporters how events unfolded.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

If it's in the anime AND the manga then it's most likely by Toriyama.

The universe threatening punches were in both versions.

That holds true for the Universe 6 arc & beyond. The BoG & FnF arcs in Super are based on the movies, so we know exactly what comes from Toriyama & what doesn't, so as far as we know, the universe threatening punches did not come from Toriyama.

[Helios518]

Go to chapter 4 page 11 of the super manga and you see the universal punch and shockwave.

[THEGOKU]

Go to chapter 4 page 11 of the super manga and you see the universal punch and shockwave.

I think we he is trying to say is that because in BOG that did not occur it is something that doesn't come from Toriyama or at least a strong possibility of that.

[Bullza]

If it's in the anime AND the manga then it's most likely by Toriyama.

The universe threatening punches were in both versions.

That holds true for the Universe 6 arc & beyond. The BoG & FnF arcs in Super are based on the movies, so we know exactly what comes from Toriyama & what doesn't, so as far as we know, the universe threatening punches did not come from Toriyama.

It depends if he had some involvement with the arcs anyway though. The first episode and first chapter were damn near the same except for what was added in the anime involving Goten and Trunks.

Both versions were also set on a Cruise Ship as opposed to the Capsule Corp so was that Toriyama's decision?

[Khin]

Correct if i'm wrong but didn't Toriyama provide a script for Super's 1st episode ? So it's entirely possible that he provided scripts for future episodes as well, especially for big episodes like the Beerus vs. Super Saiyan God Goku. The Universe clash is too big of a change to be something that is not Toriyama's decision. I think those major changes and the major plot-points are from Toriyama himself, and the rest is up to Toei and Toyotaro.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Again, we have no indication that Toriyama had any involvement (other than supervision) with anything before the Universe 6 arc, except for the Episode 1 original script, which hasn't been 100% confirmed to be true anyway. As far as we know, his involvement with Super (both anime & manga) is supervision & providing Toei & Toyotaro with story drafts for the new story arcs (Universe 6 arc, Future Trunks arc, and possibly more in the future) for them to adapt. The Battle of Gods & Resurrection "F" arcs in Super though, these are Toei's & Toyotaro's babies based on Toriyama's movies, as far as we know. Similarities between the manga & anime versions of the BoG arc are probably because the manga is made to promote the anime, especially in its beginnings, so Toyotaro was provided with scripts of the upcoming episodes & was asked to make a smaller adaptation of the anime BoG arc.

[Ajay]

Where did this idea come from that he provided episode 1's script? Episode 1 was written by Yukinori Fukushima.

We have no idea about the extent of Toriyama's involvement. All we know is what we've been told, and everything else is pure guesswork based on what turns up in the manga.

[Khin]

Where did this idea come from that he provided episode 1's script? Episode 1 was written by Yukinori Fukushima.

It was posted and translated in this very forum around May. There we knew that Toriyama wrote the beginning of Super as just months after the Majin Boo Arc. Though it was probably not the script for the episode and i'm just remembering it wrong. But i'll check it out.

EDIT:

Found it. Although the text about Toriyama is just added by that GojitaAF guy, don't know if he's reliable or not. Toriyama's name was probably mentioned in the image. One of the members said it was already posted before, so perhaps the other post has an actual confirmation. Too lazy to find it now

[THEGOKU]

I mean if most of this stuff is coming from Toei they are doing a much better job than GT.

[SansrivaaL]

I'm going with what the manga has shown thus far, seems more consistent than the anime at least.
Super anime=
-Shows that Goku absorbed the God KI hence we all thought his base mode and SSJ forms all have God KI, but then how the heck can Future Trunks even fight on par with Goku's SSJ2, hell kid Trunks even commented that Goku's being pushed back by Future Trunks whereas Trunks knows nothing about God Ki.


Super Manga=
-Fight ended right after Goku lost his God mode, no SSJ1 V Beerus shown whatever which is consistent in my part
Basically the manga shows us that
God ki= SSJG<SSJB
Normal ki= Base<SSJ<SSJ2<SSJ3
They are different hence Toyotarou brought in the SSJG, its a whole different usage of ki, take it as SSJG is Goku's base mode with God ki.

At least this is how I see it.

[THEGOKU]

I'm going with what the manga has shown thus far, seems more consistent than the anime at least.
Super anime=
-Shows that Goku absorbed the God KI hence we all thought his base mode and SSJ forms all have God KI, but then how the heck can Future Trunks even fight on par with Goku's SSJ2, hell kid Trunks even commented that Goku's being pushed back by Future Trunks whereas Trunks knows nothing about God Ki.


Super Manga=
-Fight ended right after Goku lost his God mode, no SSJ1 V Beerus shown whatever which is consistent in my part
Basically the manga shows us that
God ki= SSJG<SSJB
Normal ki= Base<SSJ<SSJ2<SSJ3
They are different hence Toyotarou brought in the SSJG, its a whole different usage of ki, take it as SSJG is Goku's base mode with God ki.

At least this is how I see it.

In terms of that I guess it could be with what is considered "cannon" for example I myself prefer the BOG movie as canon and the super stuff just a retelling of things with the first chapters of the manga being a retelling too. So up until that chapter in the manga to me every SSJ form Goku used had God Ki in it. I think this show being new and fresh just needs some interviews with Toriyama and Toyotarou in like a DBS Daizenshuu or something.

[LightBing]

Where did this idea come from that he provided episode 1's script? Episode 1 was written by Yukinori Fukushima.

It was posted and translated in this very forum around May. There we knew that Toriyama wrote the beginning of Super as just months after the Majin Boo Arc. Though it was probably not the script for the episode and i'm just remembering it wrong. But i'll check it out.

I remember that. Not sure if it was confirmed that it was written by Mr.Toriyama. The main differences were what you said about the timeline and Goten being in kindergarten, which honestly sound very Toriyama like to forget his age. If memory doesn't fail me, it's buried in the announcement thread.

That old script is still the reason I think we're not more than three years past the Boo Arc and not following BoG timeline.

[404FILENOTFOUND]

As the other replies mentioned, if its both in the anime and manga than it must be the story Super is going for. However you want to experience that story be it up to the viewer.

I like BoG movie/RoF super cut/U6 tournament/Black
Copy arc and other episodes like Goku having Ki disorder and the Mr Satan episode are filler as far as I'm aware but that is my opinion.

[YonedgeHP]

I think both of the versions are based on the script made by Toriyama (including the Potaufeu arc)

[DBZGTKOSDH]

About Episode 1, here is what we know about the original script: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=30157&p=1080027&hi ... n#p1080027

However, the only source saying that this was written by Toriyama is that GojiitaAF guy, who doesn't really have a good reputation. Then again, it would make sense to be by Toriyama. Regardless, we know that he may at least wrote the Goku & Goten scenes from the first episode/chapter of Super.