What if the Goku Black arc came before the Universe 6 tournament?

[precita]

Let's say not only did the movie re-tellings not happen, but also the Universe 6 tournament was placed AFTER the Goku Black arc, not before.

So back in 2015 Super would start with the first Goku black episode. Do you think the show would have been received a lot better? I think aside from the movie re-tellings, the Universe 6 tournament was just somewhat disappointing, and not anywhere as exciting as it could have been. Sure I liked Champa, Hit, and some of the other fighters but it was nothing mind blowing.

Likewise we would have seen Goku and Vegeta practice their God ki on Goku Black before fighting in the tournament against Champa's fighters.

[Slaythe]

This is stupid.

Super is currently Toei's second best show, Bandai's 2nd highest grossing franchise, it is CONSISTENTLY in the top 10 of weekly animes since it came out.

It's a big success. Poorly received ? By what, irrelevant hardcore western fans ? Ok then.

Plus remember how awful the art was during FnF, I'd rather have them struggle during that retelling than during Trunks arc.

I think it's great that Super is able to provide calm moments, light hearted battles, and then switch things up drastically. It makes the show polyvalent.

Starting right away with despair would have cheapen it out IMO.

[Cipher]

It's impossible to say, as rushed production played such a role in many viewers' reactions. Would it be more hastily written? Would an early episode's animation still collapse?

The only things we can really say are:

1) The movie resellings probably didn't help anyone's enthusiasm, in either execution or concept.

2) This arc seems to be more in line with what drama/action-hungry fans want from the series than the Universe 6 arc, which from what I've seen from other illegally streaming international fans yet to influence Toei's bottom line, wasn't all that badly recieved outside of some slipshod animation.

[fadeddreams5]

I would have enjoyed it more, yeah. The arc has tension, great villains, and an intriguing plot. It's too bad the execution feels completely half-assed. If this arc was released during the prime of the series and drawn/written by Toriyama himself, it may have shaped up to be one of my favorite sagas in the entire franchise. Though I suppose I'm speaking too soon since idk where all this is going to lead.

Super is currently Toei's second best show, Bandai's 2nd highest grossing franchise, it is CONSISTENTLY in the top 10 of weekly animes since it came out.

Dragon Ball is a powerful brand indeed.

[ChaosLordBrandon]

This is stupid.

Super is currently Toei's second best show, Bandai's 2nd highest grossing franchise, it is CONSISTENTLY in the top 10 of weekly animes since it came out.

It's a big success. Poorly received ? By what, irrelevant hardcore western fans ? Ok then.

Plus remember how awful the art was during FnF, I'd rather have them struggle during that retelling than during Trunks arc.

I think it's great that Super is able to provide calm moments, light hearted battles, and then switch things up drastically. It makes the show polyvalent.

Starting right away with despair would have cheapen it out IMO.

This 100% percent. Do people not see all views dbs videos get on youtube alone and how the ratings currently is? Its right behind One Piece. do people really think that the hardcore western fans(even know these people are like 8 percent of the fanbase.) who hate super are relevant and what they say matters? If it did then it wouldn't be Bandai's and Toei's secound in everything behind One Piece.

Super is a huge success ratings wise,merchandise wise,sales wise, and fanbase wise. Super is what Toei and Bandai what out of db for years. Hell Dragon Ball hasn't never ever generated this kind of traffic on the internet before Super came and has seen this much activty from the base since it was running.

[sintzu]

If this arc was released during the prime of the series and drawn/written by Toriyama himself, it may have shaped up to be one of my favorite sagas in the entire franchise.

I think him taking a nearly 20 year break from the franchise was the right thing to do cause you could tell from the manga's Buu arc that he was tired and that could've brought the story crashing down but thankfully he managed to see it through to the end but if he tried to do another arc I think he would've most likely failed.

[Lord Beerus]

I would have enjoyed it more, yeah. The arc has tension, great villains, and an intriguing plot. It's too bad the execution feels completely half-assed. If this arc was released during the prime of the series and drawn/written by Toriyama himself, it may have shaped up to be one of my favorite sagas in the entire franchise. Though I suppose I'm speaking too soon since idk where all this is going to lead.

If Toriyama was writing this arc, even during his prime, I don't think he would have delved as deep into the lore and developed Future Trunks and Zamasu as well as the anime has so far. No offence, but Toriyama was lousy when it came to developing villains. Every villain Toriyama ever wrote never had that much depth or complexity to their personality or goals. For the first ever we've seen not just a character develop into a villain for a legitimate reason (Zamasu) but we've also had a villain with a genuine purpose and goal that does't feel shallow (Black). If Toriayama was writing this arc, I highly doubt he would gone into this much detail with Black, Zamasu, the role of the Kaioshin in Universe 10 or delve deep into the trauma of Future Trunks battling Black.

[ChronoTwigger]

Despite the show being a success... it's a curious what if.

Retellings where somehow meh, usefull but not spectacular.
The tournament give us a first glimpse of Super leit motif: gods all around. But it was very introductory. An appetizer.
This arc escalate a bit on the motif.
Being thrown directly in such a large and serious scenario could have been too far, if direct sequel of Buu facts (need to explain Gohan retire, Vegeta attitude change, the Universe mechanics).

I suppose could have been done, but with a large change of the arc itself (so... not the same arc, indeed).

[fadeddreams5]

I would have enjoyed it more, yeah. The arc has tension, great villains, and an intriguing plot. It's too bad the execution feels completely half-assed. If this arc was released during the prime of the series and drawn/written by Toriyama himself, it may have shaped up to be one of my favorite sagas in the entire franchise. Though I suppose I'm speaking too soon since idk where all this is going to lead.

If Toriyama was writing this arc, even during his prime, I don't think he would have delved as deep into the lore and developed Future Trunks and Zamasu as well as the anime has so far. No offence, but Toriyama was lousy when it came to developing villains. Every villain Toriyama ever wrote never had that much depth or complexity to their personality or goals. For the first ever we've seen not just a character develop into a villain for a legitimate reason (Zamasu) but we've also had a villain with a genuine purpose and goal that does't feel shallow (Black). If Toriayama was writing this arc, I highly doubt he would gone into this much detail with Black, Zamasu, the role of the Kaioshin in Universe 10 or delve deep into the trauma of Future Trunks battling Black.

Oh, I didn't really mean in terms of characterization. He failed miserably at that in the Cell Games with Gohan too. In his prime, this arc would have likely been expanded into an epic saga and he'd have been the one drawing the action sequences the anime would later use for reference. Everything feels so rushed and half-assed in the Super anime by Toei, despite the story being intriguing, tension being felt, and the villains being a breath of fresh air.

On a side note, I wonder if these villains were even Toriyama's ideas. As in, their personalities. They feel so unlike anything he'd usually write. I wouldn't be surprised if someone, like Toyotaro, pitched him the ideas.

[Lord Beerus]

I would have enjoyed it more, yeah. The arc has tension, great villains, and an intriguing plot. It's too bad the execution feels completely half-assed. If this arc was released during the prime of the series and drawn/written by Toriyama himself, it may have shaped up to be one of my favorite sagas in the entire franchise. Though I suppose I'm speaking too soon since idk where all this is going to lead.

If Toriyama was writing this arc, even during his prime, I don't think he would have delved as deep into the lore and developed Future Trunks and Zamasu as well as the anime has so far. No offence, but Toriyama was lousy when it came to developing villains. Every villain Toriyama ever wrote never had that much depth or complexity to their personality or goals. For the first ever we've seen not just a character develop into a villain for a legitimate reason (Zamasu) but we've also had a villain with a genuine purpose and goal that does't feel shallow (Black). If Toriayama was writing this arc, I highly doubt he would gone into this much detail with Black, Zamasu, the role of the Kaioshin in Universe 10 or delve deep into the trauma of Future Trunks battling Black.

Oh, I didn't really mean in terms of characterization. He failed miserably at that in the Cell Games with Gohan too. In his prime, this arc would have likely been expanded into an epic saga and he'd have been the one drawing the action sequences the anime would later use for reference. Everything feels so rushed and half-assed in the Super anime by Toei, despite the story being intriguing, tension being felt, and the villains being a breath of fresh air.

On a side note, I wonder if these villains were even Toriyama's ideas. As in, their personalities. They feel so unlike anything he'd usually write. I wouldn't be surprised if someone, like Toyotaro, pitched him the ideas.

Everything about the Goku Black arc was pitched to Toriyama from Toei. I'd imagine the basic story of the arc would then go under the classic Toriyama revision with some liberties taken from Toei and Toyotaro.

[HeroR]

@Lord Beerus

We don't know if this entire arc was presented to Toriyama. The only thing he said that it was an idea from the editor staff and it could have been as simple as 'can you bring back Future Trunks' or 'can you make an evil Goku'. Trying to say they wrote everything for him with no proof to back it is unfair to Toriyama.

[precita]

Freeza is a very complex villain when you realize he's not just generically evil, but he has layers of arrogance, pride, and royalty that makes him the way he is. I've seen people post very complex character study's of Freeza's character before, far better than I could ever post, so he has quite a lot of depth to him.