Possible Plothole in Zamasu's Immortality

[KingKaash]

**NOTE: This is not a post about how our heroes may find a weakness to exploit against the immortal Zamasu**

First off, the writers finally took it there. They finally brought immortality in to the Dragon Ball franchise. Because Goku and heroes keep slaying villains, they had to bring immortality in to finally give Goku a challenge. I'm not a big fan of bringing immortality into the show and I'm waiting to see how absurd the solution could be to stopping the immortal Zamasu. But that's not the point of this.

Immortality is defined as "the ability to live forever; eternal life." And we learn that the Kaio Zamasu has attained immortality through the Super Dragon Ball wishes most likely. But as you'll notice, the definition states "to live forever." It does not saying anything about being able to withstand and remain unscathed from damage. And that is where there maybe a potential plothole.

My thought on immortality was always this. Let's say we humans figured out a way to live forever ourselves. That doesn't mean we can't feel or experience pain. So my logic was that if I was immortal and I got hit by a bus, sure I wouldn't die, but I would feel excruciating amounts of pain. So in that sense, what is the point of being alive if I can still be hurt and not die?

Bringing it back to Zamasu, sure he can't be killed by Goku, Vegeta or Trunks. But when he's stabbed by a sword or takes a fully powered Kamehameha, that he should receive incredible damage that should render him severely weakened but not dead like the word immortality states.

So I don't understand why Zamasu can take on attacks and not receive damage or feel pain and how that has to do with him being immortal. What do you guys think?

[Freeza9000]

I guess it depends on how you interpret immortality. What immortality is that it's the ever-lasting life of a person, meaning that that person cannot die. Even if you are critically injured like being stabbed through the chest by a sword, that ability of immortality would prevent you from death. You can either live on with that wound or just heal it with ease. The latter was what occurred last episode with Zamasu surviving powerful assaults and energy blasts.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

**NOTE: This is not a post about how our heroes may find a weakness to exploit against the immortal Zamasu**

First off, the writers finally took it there. They finally brought immortality in to the Dragon Ball franchise. Because Goku and heroes keep slaying villains, they had to bring immortality in to finally give Goku a challenge. I'm not a big fan of bringing immortality into the show and I'm waiting to see how absurd the solution could be to stopping the immortal Zamasu. But that's not the point of this.

Immortality is defined as "the ability to live forever; eternal life." And we learn that the Kaio Zamasu has attained immortality through the Super Dragon Ball wishes most likely. But as you'll notice, the definition states "to live forever." It does not saying anything about being able to withstand and remain unscathed from damage. And that is where there maybe a potential plothole.

My thought on immortality was always this. Let's say we humans figured out a way to live forever ourselves. That doesn't mean we can't feel or experience pain. So my logic was that if I was immortal and I got hit by a bus, sure I wouldn't die, but I would feel excruciating amounts of pain. So in that sense, what is the point of being alive if I can still be hurt and not die?

Bringing it back to Zamasu, sure he can't be killed by Goku, Vegeta or Trunks. But when he's stabbed by a sword or takes a fully powered Kamehameha, that he should receive incredible damage that should render him severely weakened but not dead like the word immortality states.

So I don't understand why Zamasu can take on attacks and not receive damage or feel pain and how that has to do with him being immortal. What do you guys think?

Don't think about this through a dictionary, terms like "immortality" are subjective, especially so in Dragon Ball. Zamasu's immortality seems to come with an invincibility.

[Pantalones]

There's a few different takes on what "immortality" means depending on which show/book/mythology/etc. you're looking at. Sometimes there's "immortals" who just don't die of old age but can still be killed by force (elves tend to be an example of this one), other times "immortal" means nothing can kill you but that's more of a downside in the long run because if someone chops you up you're stuck as a bunch of chopped-up (but still alive) body parts forever, and still other times you can't die AND you also can't be reduced to a "near-death" state, you'll just bounce back to normal after a while no matter how seemingly-dead you are.

I'm pretty sure Dragonball's version of immortality is the "can't die of old age, can't die from injuries, and you magically regenerate from anything that would've been lethal normally" type. Not just "eternal life" but also "eternally whole," so your body just returns to normal if anything that should kill or mortally wound you happens. This was what it was like for Garlic Jr., too, if I'm remembering right -- didn't he get a hole blown through his chest and it just sealed right back up at one point during his filler saga?

Someone who can't die of old age but can still be killed, or can still be seriously injured just like anyone else but can survive even when chopped into a million pieces, doesn't seem to qualify as "immortal" in Dragonball. Roshi might be the "no death by old age, but can still be killed" type if he really does have eternal life, and we see an example of the other type in the case of Freeza who was wished back in pieces and didn't re-die during the process of Tagoma and Sorbet gathering the pieces up and taking them back to their ship, and Cell who was still alive even as a single cell after self-destructing.

[MasterVampire]

Why not use the Earth dragonballs to remove his immortaltiy

[Black_Liger]

Why not use the Earth dragonballs to remove his immortaltiy

Pretty sure the normal dragon balls can't undo what the Super dragon balls have done.

[Lord Beerus]

Why not use the Earth dragonballs to remove his immortaltiy

Pretty sure the normal dragon balls can't undo what the Super dragon balls have done.

Why not? I mean, there's hasn't been any stated constrictions that what one set Dragon Balls do another set of Dragon Balls can't undo. Hell, if anything it's the opposite. There are very few limitations for what kind of wishes the Earth Dragon Balls can't grant. And there are practically zero limitations for what Namekian Dragon Ball can do, beyond the Namekian language barrier.

[HeroR]

Why not use the Earth dragonballs to remove his immortaltiy

Pretty sure the normal dragon balls can't undo what the Super dragon balls have done.

Why not? I mean, there's hasn't been any stated constrictions that what one set Dragon Balls do another set of Dragon Balls can't undo. Hell, if anything it's the opposite. There are very few limitations for what kind of wishes the Earth Dragon Balls can't grant. And there are practically zero limitations for what Namekian Dragon Ball can do, beyond the Namekian language barrier.

The Super Dragon Balls are much stronger than the Earth's Dragon Balls. It would probably be beyond Shenron's power to strip away something given by Super Shenron. Especially since taking Zamasu' immorality would be against his will, not unlike reviving someone. Shenron couldn't even remove bombs from the androids.

[Lord Beerus]

Pretty sure the normal dragon balls can't undo what the Super dragon balls have done.

Why not? I mean, there's hasn't been any stated constrictions that what one set Dragon Balls do another set of Dragon Balls can't undo. Hell, if anything it's the opposite. There are very few limitations for what kind of wishes the Earth Dragon Balls can't grant. And there are practically zero limitations for what Namekian Dragon Ball can do, beyond the Namekian language barrier.

The Super Dragon Balls are much stronger than the Earth's Dragon Balls. It would probably be beyond Shenron's power to strip away something given by Super Shenron. Especially since taking Zamasu' immorality would be against his will, not unlike reviving someone. Shenron couldn't even remove bombs from the androids.

Huh? Shenlong did grant the wish for the bombs to be removed from 17 and 18.

[ChronoTwigger]

They could find that god that created the Super Balls and ask him "undoing" (disactivate?) them. More lore for us.

Anyway, pain and death are different stuff. So far, Zamasu acted like an unliving: he doesn't feel any pain and nothing harm him.

Fun enough, Black feel pain... that lead to another "one spliced in two" theory.

[HeroR]

Huh? Shenlong did grant the wish for the bombs to be removed from 17 and 18.

I meant turn them human.

[SilverPlaqueVII]

Having seeing footage from the Dead Zone film, it would appear Zamazu is almost on par with Garlic Jr. Because immortal people cannot die, why not use the Earth's Dragon Balls to have Shenlong wish to open the Dead Zone and toss him in there?

[HeroR]

Having seeing footage from the Dead Zone film, it would appear Zamazu is almost on par with Garlic Jr. Because immortal people cannot die, why not use the Earth's Dragon Balls to have Shenlong wish to open the Dead Zone and toss him in there?

The Dead Zone doesn't exist in Toriyama's work since it was a movie and the anime filler.

[Lord Beerus]

Huh? Shenlong did grant the wish for the bombs to be removed from 17 and 18.

I meant turn them human.

But they are already mostly human.

[HeroR]

Huh? Shenlong did grant the wish for the bombs to be removed from 17 and 18.

I meant turn them human.

But they are already mostly human.

Yet, Shenron couldn't turn them back to full-blooded humans, which was Krillin's wish.

[KingKaash]

Don't think about this through a dictionary, terms like "immortality" are subjective, especially so in Dragon Ball. Zamasu's immortality seems to come with an invincibility.

I like that you used the word invincibility. Because technically he's more invincible than he is immortal.

I'm pretty sure Dragonball's version of immortality is the "can't die of old age, can't die from injuries, and you magically regenerate from anything that would've been lethal normally" type. Not just "eternal life" but also "eternally whole," so your body just returns to normal if anything that should kill or mortally wound you happens. This was what it was like for Garlic Jr., too, if I'm remembering right -- didn't he get a hole blown through his chest and it just sealed right back up at one point during his filler saga?

So we assume that regeneration comes along with immortality. Alright I can roll with that especially since he's a Kaoi

[Kamiccolo9]

Huh? Shenlong did grant the wish for the bombs to be removed from 17 and 18.

I meant turn them human.

But they are already mostly human.

Shenron couldn't even pull Goku from space to Earth without Goku's permission. Removing immortality from a God would be far beyond his power.

[HeroR]

Shenron couldn't even pull Goku from space to Earth without Goku's permission. Removing immortality from a God would be far beyond his power.

That was the Namek dragon, not Shenron.

[Kamiccolo9]

Shenron couldn't even pull Goku from space to Earth without Goku's permission. Removing immortality from a God would be far beyond his power.

That was the Namek dragon, not Shenron.

Whatever. Porunga is even stronger than Shenron, so that doesn't change my point. Shenron couldn't kill Nappa.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Shenron couldn't even pull Goku from space to Earth without Goku's permission. Removing immortality from a God would be far beyond his power.

That was the Namek dragon, not Shenron.

The Namekian Dragon was greater than Shenlong. His only deficiency was that he wouldn't bring back to life more than 1 person at a time.