Interesting point about anime fan's dislike of DBZ

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 5:24 pm

I just happened to stop by the AnimeNation website, to read the latest "Ask John" column(he's not arrogant and patronizing like the "Answerman" people can sometimes be on Anime News Network), that's why I prefer him. Anyway, someone asked about whether it was fair for people to say that Naruto was a DB "ripoff", and he disagreed with this, but I thought the rest of his answer concerning why some anime fans hate DBZ was a very good point. I posted a link below:

http://www.animenation.net/news/askjohn.php?id=868

Post by **VegettoEX** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 6:09 pm

Anyone who can't admit that Naruto is the same god damn show as DragonBall Z is absolutely blind.

The O vs H fight (hopefully that's not too much of a spoiler if you're not up to it) that's been going on... NOTHING HAS HAPPENED IN HALF A DOZEN EPISODES. NOTHING. AT ALL. Hmm... SSJ Goku vs Freeza, anyone?

Don't get me wrong... I like the show (Naruto) and all, but I think it's actually doing WORSE than DBZ in terms of prolonging things, at this point in the anime. It's getting pretty ridiculous.

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 6:42 pm

I agree that the "mainstreaming" of DBZ might be responsible for a lot of the snobby-otaku hatred that the show generates. No longer can you talk about the adventures of Goku, and be stared at by people on the street. No, now everyone knows what you mean. You have lost nerd-street cred.

I also think that people using "G o k o u ", "F u r r i z a", "S e r u" (damn that autocorrect feature) are doing so to try and maintain a certain element of "eliteness" about it. If someone says "Goku", then all you know about them is that they watch Dragonball/DBZ/DBGT. If they say "I like Super Saiya-jin Son G o k o u", then they have informed the world that, yes, they are a fan of the ELITE JAPANESE MASTERPIECE CREATED BY LORD AKIRA TORIYAMA-SAMA GOD-DUDE. And, by implication, they are snubbing the dub, not just for it's faults, but for it's success in making DBZ a mainstream hit. FUNI may have raped and pillaged the greatest piece of literature since the Bible, but they also made it one of the biggest cartoons of the last 20 years, and possibly the biggest (or second biggest) imported cartoon ever. Now, it's just like watching an American cartoon...no-one's impressed.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 7:03 pm

I think it's ridiculous though just too hate a show, because it's broken into the mainstream. I can understand about anime fans not wanting anime to become mainstream, because ya, you end up with more and more people liking it just because they want to be see as "in" on the latest fad and the genre tends to get corrupted and ruined(kind of the way a particular dog breed gets popular and gets "ruined" because unethical breeders and puppymills cash in on it), but that's no reason to look down on the show itself. It's the same with "Pokemon", I still think it's a great show for kids, both male and female, that teaches nice values.

I remember once reading a letter from a young girl once(I think she was only around 12), I believe it was in an issue of Animerica, about how she loved "Pokemon", as well as all kinds of other anime, such as "Cowboy Bebop", "Escaflowne", etc., so it's not like she wasn't well-versed in other anime series. She was upset about all the snobbery concerning certain series. Anyway she related a story about how at a convention she dressed up as Ash(Satoshi B-kun!

), and a grown man wearing an Evangelion T-shirt snarkily remarked as he passed by her, "Pokemon sucks!". Come on, are you that much of a blinded, arrogant fanboy snob that you can say that to a twelve year-old kid who's just trying to have a good time?! Lighten up and get a heart! Hey, I think the show "Beyblade" is one of the crappiest con-job animes for kids I've ever seen, but if I saw some kids at a convention dressed as the characters, wearing T-shirts, or playing the game, I'd never insult them or the show. If they think it's the greatest thing since "sliced bread" what right do I have to put them down? As a matter of fact, if they invited me to sit down and play the game with them, I gladly would.

laserkid · Post by **laserkid** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 7:39 pm

This whole thread is beaming with correctness on all of this XDD

Its really annoying to deal with elitists in any field, its no diffrent in anime fandom.

What I fucking hate is that now to be "valid" anime fans you have to either download/steal it through fansubs or watch DVDs, but if you watched it on TV (Anime Unleashed or Adult Swim par example) you're treated like a lesser fan. When mentioning my top 3 shows (DB/Z and Rurouni Kenshin tie, Slayers and Trigun) I get so much shit from some people because its on TV, and the only defense they will accept is that in the case of Trigun and Rurouni Kenshin that I had the DVDs before they broadcasted the show, but why should that even matter? I've watched the entirety of Witch Hunter Robin on Adult Swim and absolutely loved it to death, does this make me some kind of a lower fan? You'd be surprised how many people would say yes...

tlsmith1963 · Post by **tlsmith1963** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 7:40 pm

I only got into Dragonball stuff recently. Before, I would come across it on TV & think that it was just about fights. My favorite anime series is Cowboy Bebop, but it only has 26 episodes so I have been checking out other anime series too. When I started reading the DB & DBZ manga I realized that the shows were better than I had thought. So I changed my mind about Dragonball.

Tammy

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 7:56 pm

I think it's even worse than having to download fansubs and such Laserkid. At this point, if you said you liked "Witch Hunter Robin" to some fans, they'd go so far as to say. "What? You're just into that now?! Ya I liked that ages ago, I watched it as it was being broadcast in Japan. I can't believe you're just watching now!" It's all about what the "hottest, latest anime" is. And forget about "old" series! I once talked to a really stereotypical snobby fangirl, she was all the things I stated above. When she wasn't bragging to me about how she won first prize dressed as Akane from Magic Users Club(Maho Tsukai Tai), at all the conventions she went to, she was of course going on about the latest series that were out. Whenever though I mentioned something classic like Mobile Suit Gundam or Urusei Yatsura, she just gave me a second-long blank stare and then preceded to continue talking on about whatever series she had been mentioning, as if I never said a word. I finally though had to kill her when she proceeded to serenade me with one the images songs from Kodomo no Omocha, I mean the entire song!

Anyway I definitely know what you mean. I also love the series you mentioned, especially Trigun. Remember when sooo many people thought Trigun was the greatest thing around and now no one seems to really care about it anymore? I think it's more of that same stuff again.

Tammy: I think that's great that you were able to give DB a try, if only other people were as open-minded.

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 8:44 pm

Jerseymilk wrote:IHey, I think the show "Beyblade" is one of the crappiest con-job animes for kids I've ever seen...

Fantastic (US) theme tune though. I love upbeat, catchy stuff like that.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 8:49 pm

Ya, it's not bad. It's just the show's concept. As an aquaintance of mine put it when the show first came here, "It's tops."

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 8:54 pm

But...kid's love it. Pokemon took Top Trumps, added a splash of Magic: The Gathering, and got a hit. Bayblade is a more physical (if that's such a word) version. Kid's don't have to learn a bunch of complicated rules. They fire spinning tops at each other. And they love it.

Zackarotto · Post by **Zackarotto** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 8:56 pm

Ehh... I don't know... when Rock Lee and Gaara went up against each other, and Lee took off his weights, I just felt like I was watching the most awesome tribute to DBZ ever. I never felt like it was anything more than that, though. I'm not going to, either.

Allthough there's things I could bring up about the other things being talked about in this topic, I'm simply not going to. Not that they're bad things.

Super Sonic · Post by **Super Sonic** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 9:26 pm

You guys make a lot of good points. With "Naruto" I'm only as far as the most recent US Shonen Jump which came out a few days ago, so I can't weigh into things yet. A thing I get on crazy otaku about is how they sometimes badmouth DBZ or how the dvd's prices being "too high," when 3 years ago pretty much EVERY subtitled video was that same price and I heard no one complaining about it.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 9:30 pm

PsyLiam wrote:But...kid's love it. Pokemon took Top Trumps, added a splash of Magic: The Gathering, and got a hit. Bayblade is a more physical (if that's such a word) version. Kid's don't have to learn a bunch of complicated rules. They fire spinning tops at each other. And they love it.

Yes they do. I didn't want get into why I think it's more of a sham than Pokemon or Yugi-Oh!, but Liam just had to add more points!

I think it's great that it makes kids happy and heck, like we weren't caught up in the latest cartoon/toy tie-in during our childhoods(heh heh He-Man anyone?), however, I feel the show is hardly about the same game the kids are playing, by putting in the idea of the "bit beasts" that are actually in the tops fighting one another. It's ridiculous how the characters in the show actually speak to their tops and the tops act as if they're obeying the commands, even though in reality, you can change the structure of your beyblade so it's weight, speed, etc. is affected, but as soon as you've spun that thing into the beyblade stadium, it's all down to luck and a bit of physics. At least with Pokemon, it's somewhat realistic with the video games even though it's virtual reality and in Yugi-Oh!, yes they'll have supernatural powers or technology to see the monsters in action, but in essence, they actually play the cards the way kids in real life do.

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 9:44 pm

Fair points.

Hmm. It's interesting that lots of other people here tend to use "Otaku" in a slightly degrading way. Wasn't it originally an insult, but then taking as a point of pride by the more hardcore fans? It's starting to come full circle.

I do have a general hatred of "hardocore" anyway. In anime, in video games, in anything. The idea that you can only like something if you become obsessed with it and know the complete history behind every facet of it. Gagh.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 10:08 pm

Well, no one can ever know every single thing about something anyway, so why waste your life trying to accomplish the impossible? I don't really use the word "otaku" at all myself, not because I think it's derogatory or anything, I just don't use it too much for some reason, plus to me an "Otaku" would be defined as someone that literally has no life outside of anime or manga, I mean they don't even get out for fresh air, except to go to a convention I guess.

And yes it is regarded in Japan as an insult because of it's associations. The term was "coined" in Japan to refer to the first generation of fanboys I guess. Unfortunately, the word took on a derogatory "air" in the late "80's" when a particularly gruesome case of a young male serial killer in Japan came up, it especially stood out since Japan has one of the lowest crime rates and crimes like this don't happen very often. This man had been murdering young girls, I think they were only around four or five years in age. Anyway, when the police raided his home, they found hundreds of erotica manga and anime, I think they were the violent kind of erotica stuff too. When the news was covering the story, they started using the phrase "Otaku" to describe him. The meaning of the word pretty much still means, someone unhealthily obssessed with something, it doesn't have to be anime, it can be anything. I certainly would never call myself one if I was in Japan. Their view of it is more like the obssessive guy in Perfect Blue. It's just that over here in the Western world, we don't view the word in such a negative way.

NeverRamza · Post by **NeverRamza** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 10:10 pm

Naruto is DBZ with trees

I remember the DBZ haters used to say that they liked Naruto better because it focused more on techniques than just powering up. I know a few people are getting a little annoyed lately though with all the bursting energy scenes with rocks floating along with the slow pace and all. Some people really hate the powering up episodes of DBZ. Sometimes I feel the characters have deeper motivations, too. By the end of DBZ... it seemed as the characters were fighting just for the sake of fighting and that's it.

They're still very similar, though.

And I like them both

Post by **VegettoEX** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 10:12 pm

NeverRamza wrote:I like both shows

As do I, but One Piece remains the true winner. 90 episodes, and only once have I felt it slowed down just a little too much (for those wondering, it was the island with the two giants). Other than that (which was quick enough, so it didn't really matter)... it's the show that has yet to disappoint.

Chopper's fucking amazing.

NeverRamza · Post by **NeverRamza** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 10:17 pm

VegettoEX wrote:
NeverRamza wrote:I like both shows
As do I, but One Piece remains the true winner.

Haha, One Piece. I watched about 12 episodes but I just could not get into it. Even Inu Yasha felt more exciting. Does this show really get better or am I just crazy?

Oh, and I've really been digging Uninhabited Planet Survive lately.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 10:20 pm

VegettoEX wrote:
NeverRamza wrote:I like both shows
As do I, but One Piece remains the true winner. 90 episodes, and only once have I felt it slowed down just a little too much (for those wondering, it was the island with the two giants). Other than that (which was quick enough, so it didn't really matter)... it's the show that has yet to disappoint.

Chopper's fucking amazing.

EX is my hero! Chopper forever!

Zackarotto · Post by **Zackarotto** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 10:25 pm

I thought One Piece was still going.

Not that it matters, I'm only at the US Shonen Jump's place.

I used to use Otaku, but now I've started calling myself an anime fan. I consider myself hardcore in anime, but hey. If someone said I had no life outside of it, I don't mind. I'd like to spend my life watching anime. And that's probably worse.

Kanzenshuu

Interesting point about anime fan's dislike of DBZ

Interesting point about anime fan's dislike of DBZ

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