Naming a form SSGSS and naming a form SSB

[ChiefWamsutta]

I had a thought -- Goku's Super Saiyan form in Outer Space against Beerus in Episode 14 had the power of Super Saiyan God.

It had Mortal Ki and was a Super Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God. Technically it is an SSGSS.

Super Saiyan Blue has God Ki and is a Super Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God.

We have Super Saiyan God, Episode 14 Outer Space Super Saiyan vs. Beerus, and Super Saiyan Blue.

Why not use an official title and call them SSGod, SSGSS, and SSB, as three different forms?

[MagmonKai]

The title of this thread is a bit misleading. SSGSS is the same thing as SSB.

[ChiefWamsutta]

The title of this thread is a bit misleading. SSGSS is the same thing as SSB.

I changed the title. Also, did you read my post? I tried to explain that I think it'd be interesting to name the Super Saiyan against Beerus.

[MagmonKai]

Yes, but I'm confused SSG was not a "mortal" with god ki. He was completely transformed as a Super Saiyan God no?

[MagmonKai]

If anything SSB/SSGSS is a mortal ki with god ki mixed in.

[ChiefWamsutta]

If anything SSB/SSGSS is a mortal ki with god ki mixed in.

Well, first Goku goes Super Saiyan God ***Has God Ki***

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Then after the time limit runs out he turns back into a Super Saiyan. This one is different though since it has the power of a Super Saiyan God. Basically this means the two have equal power level.
They mention the "[Super Saiyan] God's crimson radiance" being retained by Goku. ***Has Mortal Ki***

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Then Goku becomes a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, also called Super Saiyan Blue. ***Has God Ki***

[spoiler][/spoiler]

These are three different forms, which is why I believe we could use the official SSGSS name and say: Super Saiyan God, SSGSS, Super Saiyan Blue.

[MagmonKai]

I see what you're saying now. Hmm...I don't know if I'd call that other form SSGSS though. Wouldn't it just be SSG still?

[ChiefWamsutta]

I see what you're saying now. Hmm...I don't know if I'd call that other form SSGSS though. Wouldn't it just be SSG still?

SSGSS is stated to be "A Saiyan who is a Super Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God." That is exactly what the pictured yellow Super Saiyan is, and it is also what the blue Super Saiyan is.

This is my Map of Saiyan Transformations, and why I wanted to change these names:

[spoiler][/spoiler]

[nato25]

Thats a cool map and basically how I see them as well but I'm pretty sure it is confirmed SSB/SSGSS is stronger than SSG. How much by I can't tell you but definitely stronger.

[ChiefWamsutta]

Thats a cool map and basically how I see them as well but I'm pretty sure it is confirmed SSB/SSGSS is stronger than SSG. How much by I can't tell you but definitely stronger.

Thank you for the compliment on my map. Yes, I am aware the blue hair is stronger. The further to the right you go, the more powerful forms.

I am saying that the yellow SS form that Goku gets after the Super Saiyan God time limit can be called SSGSS.

Blue Haired Form = Super Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God + God Ki

Yellow Outer Space SS Form = Super Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God + Mortal Ki

[TheUltimateNinja]

Thats a cool map and basically how I see them as well but I'm pretty sure it is confirmed SSB/SSGSS is stronger than SSG. How much by I can't tell you but definitely stronger.

Thank you for the compliment on my map. Yes, I am aware the blue hair is stronger. The further to the right you go, the more powerful forms.

I am saying that the yellow SS form that Goku gets after the Super Saiyan God time limit can be called SSGSS.

Blue Haired Form = Super Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God + God Ki

Yellow Outer Space SS Form = Super Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God + Mortal Ki

Or perhaps A Super Saiyan With The Power Of Super Saiyan God But Isn't Actually A Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan or SSWTPOSSGBIASSGSS.

[ChiefWamsutta]

Thats a cool map and basically how I see them as well but I'm pretty sure it is confirmed SSB/SSGSS is stronger than SSG. How much by I can't tell you but definitely stronger.

Thank you for the compliment on my map. Yes, I am aware the blue hair is stronger. The further to the right you go, the more powerful forms.

I am saying that the yellow SS form that Goku gets after the Super Saiyan God time limit can be called SSGSS.

Blue Haired Form = Super Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God + God Ki

Yellow Outer Space SS Form = Super Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God + Mortal Ki

Or perhaps A Super Saiyan With The Power Of Super Saiyan God But Isn't Actually A Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan or SSWTPOSSGBIASSGSS.

I love it. AND it is still better than Super Saiyan Rage (FOH with that name, Toei).

[Grimlock]

What's with the gap between "Super Saiyan" and "Super Saiyan Grade 4"?

Is it the "Full-Power Super Saiyan"? If so, then why are they separated/treated like different things? Once you master the Super Saiyan, the "Full-Power Super Saiyan" becomes your basic Super Saiyan, you can't go from Super Saiyan to Full-Power Super Saiyan freely as the former was replaced.

Oh, and there is Saiyan beyond God too.

[Anime Kitten]

I would go with Super Saiyan God (the red-haired form), Saiyan beyond God (post-SSJG Base), Super Saiyan beyond God (post-SSJG Super Saiyan), and Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan (post-SSJG new blue-haired form) AKA Super Saiyan Blue.

What's with the gap between "Super Saiyan" and "Super Saiyan Grade 4"?
Is it the "Full-Power Super Saiyan"? If so, then why are they separated/treated like different things? Once you master the Super Saiyan, the "Full-Power Super Saiyan" becomes your basic Super Saiyan, you can't go from Super Saiyan to Full-Power Super Saiyan freely as the former was replaced.

Super Saiyan would be the basic, unmastered version of Full Power Super Saiyan (Grade 4). There's no reason to list them as one and the same when they're not.

[Grimlock]

"Super Saiyan Grade 4" is not a new/another transformation, it is the Super Saiyan as we know it, only mastered. It's like a kid compared to his adult self... They are the same, one just, well, grown up. Anyway, I don't think I'll be able to explain my view on the subject clearly so you guys can fully understand, so that's it.

[ChiefWamsutta]

I would go with Super Saiyan God (the red-haired form), Saiyan beyond God (post-SSJG Base), Super Saiyan beyond God (post-SSJG Super Saiyan), and Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan (post-SSJG new blue-haired form) AKA Super Saiyan Blue.

Where would you place Saiyan Beyond God and Super Saiyan Beyond God? The line from Grade 4 to SSGSS is how Vegeta gets there, and the line from SSG to SSGSS in the graphic is how Goku gets there. How would you connect Grade 4 to Saiyan Beyond God? You'd rename SSGSS to Super Saiyan Beyond God?

[Anime Kitten]

Where would you place Saiyan Beyond God and Super Saiyan Beyond God?
How would you connect Grade 4 to Saiyan Beyond God?

You'd rename SSGSS to Super Saiyan Beyond God?

Like this: Super Saiyan Grade 4 --> Super Saiyan God --> Saiyan beyond God --> Super Saiyan beyond God --> Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan.

Super Saiyan beyond God is the mortal Ki form you listed in the first post. SSGSS (the same as SSJ Blue) is the blue-haired god Ki form.

[ChiefWamsutta]

Where would you place Saiyan Beyond God and Super Saiyan Beyond God?
How would you connect Grade 4 to Saiyan Beyond God?

You'd rename SSGSS to Super Saiyan Beyond God?

Like this: Super Saiyan Grade 4 --> Super Saiyan God --> Saiyan beyond God --> Super Saiyan beyond God --> Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan.

Super Saiyan beyond God is the mortal Ki form you listed in the first post. SSGSS (the same as SSJ Blue) is the blue-haired god Ki form.

But Vegeta never goes SSGod so why wouldn't it go with two lines going to Saiyan Beyond God:

Grade 4 --> Saiyan Beyond God --> SS Beyond God --> SSB
SSGod --> Saiyan Beyond God --> SS Beyond God --> SSB

Also, Goku goes directly from SSGod to what you call Super Saiyan Beyond God. It seemed to me that they acquired it with Whis. I'm not sure.

[ChiefWamsutta]

I don't mean to double post. I ran out of time for editing my above post.

Anyways, here is my updated version of the graphic.



I chose to add in Saiyan Beyond God and title it as such because we are taking a name from DBHeroes for Super Trunks, so we should consider Saiyan Beyond God as a form as well. This obviously does not have God Ki. It only has Mortal Ki.

I put it after SSGSS = SSGod because Goku and Vegeta perfect their Base forms while training with Whis. Krillin states in DBSuper Episode 24 at 4 minutes and 51 seconds he says:



where he implies the Saiyan Beyond God form is stronger than when he fought Beerus and that Krillin has a genuine sense of horror.

I think it goes like this SS3 < Ultimate <<< Super Saiyan God = Super Saiyan Right After Time Limit Expires < Saiyan Beyond God < Super Saiyan Blue

[Anime Kitten]

Okay, so to review...

1) Grade 4 --> God --> beyond God --> Super [Saiyan] beyond God
2) Base --> Beyond God --> Super [Saiyan] beyond God --> Blue

1 is the path taken by Goku during the Beerus arc. From a SSJ Grade 4, Goku becomes a SSJ God using the ritual. When the time limit expires, he becomes a Super Saiyan beyond God, which obviously stems from a Saiyan beyond God. These two forms have the power of a Super Saiyan God while utilizing human Ki. Hence the two-base theory.

2 is the path both Goku and Vegeta take during and after the training under Whis (Golden Freeza arc onward). They goes from their normal Base to their Base with the power of SSJ God. From that form, they can become a Super Saiyan (with the same type of power utilization; also including SSJ2 and 3 where needed) and a Super Saiyan Blue (essentially a perfected Super Saiyan God; literally a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan).

That should be all. Hopefully you can connect the paths without any trouble.