Inconcistencies/retcons in the Future Trunks arc

[nato25]

Hi guys, I'm in the middle of a review of the Future Trunks Arc and one of my big negative points against the arc is how it chooses to change things established in the series rather than work with those things and expand upon them. So far I've got:

- Trunks hair (say what you want but the change still makes no sense and looks absolutely ridiculous when they flash back to the past)
- Potara earrings (I don't buy the 1 hour time limit explanation and even if I did, this now makes Supreme Kai and Elder Kai look like absolute idiots, while Supreme Kai still seems to be rather 'green' as a Kai Elder Kai seemed very knowledgeable)
- The way time travel works (honestly I STILL don't understand the time travel theory used in this arc despite many repeat attempts to. The alternate universe theory the cell arc used was perfect they should have kept that).
- Yajirobe surviving the Androids (this is the easiest to swallow as I don't think Trunks ever saw this happen but most likely just assumed it did, even so his explanation of korin giving him the last senzu doesn't really make sense)

[precita]

Trunks hair color is just a design change, you're not supposed to think of it from an in-universe perspective.

Yajirobe survived the Androids and Korin said he gave him the last senzu bean before he died.

Vegito likely did fight Super Buu for 1 hours time. Look at how long he toyed around with him, especially in the anime.

[Boo Machine]

Trunks hair doesn't make any sense but it's also doesn't really matter as it has no effect on the story.

Potarra earirng- Why not buy it? It makes sense. Yeah It makes the Kais look like idiots but they already looked like idiots in the Buu saga. Old Kai said it would last forever and that they would stay fused no matter what. The fusion wore off anyway. It doesn't even matter the reason the point is that him being wrong isn't new, Old kai has been wrong for 20 years since they DID defuse. Supreme Kai didn't even know you could use the earrings to fuse so he is even more ignorant.

Time Travel is a mixed bag and it rarely makes sense in any story if ever. So not much I can say about the weird time travel mechanics.

Why doesn't Yajirobe surviving make sense? Korin gives him a senzu, he lives.

[nato25]

My biggest gripe with the potara is that now both fusion methods are basically identical outside of appearance. Both now wear off in a short time span (1 hour vs 30 minutes, however with the 'fusion time being used up due to power output' this is a negligible point). Then at least in my opinion the wearing of the Potara seems to be the establishing quality of a Supreme Kai, thus why Zamasu wears decorative ones and can only time travel once he puts them on. So don't you become a Supreme Kai in the process of fusing?

One more inconsistency is Vegito's outfit. It flat out should not look like that and is meant to be a mixture of both outfits. How can the resulting outfit be the same when both characters are wearing different outfits?

Your other points are all fair enough but I raise the point that the fact we can even argue about certain points is 'bad' for the series, even if the positive outcome of discussion comes from that.

[Boo Machine]

My biggest gripe with the potara is that now both fusion methods are basically identical outside of appearance. Both now wear off in a short time span (1 hour vs 30 minutes, however with the 'fusion time being used up due to power output' this is a negligible point). Then at least in my opinion the wearing of the Potara seems to be the establishing quality of a Supreme Kai, thus why Zamasu wears decorative ones and can only time travel once he puts them on. So don't you become a Supreme Kai in the process of fusing?

One more inconsistency is Vegito's outfit. It flat out should not look like that and is meant to be a mixture of both outfits. How can the resulting outfit be the same when both characters are wearing different outfits?

Your other points are all fair enough but I raise the point that the fact we can even argue about certain points is 'bad' for the series, even if the positive outcome of discussion comes from that.

The retcon itself still makes sense. If someone likes it or not is a different matter. I doubt just wearing an earring makes the person an automatic supreme Kai. They never go into detail about the process but I assume you at least need to be a shinjin to be a Supreme kai. Otherwise any person who can high jack a pair could be an Kaioshin. Although, again, the process is never gotten into so that's guess work on my part.

Vegito's outfit should look different. You're right. But that matters as much as Trunks hair since The outfit doesn't affect the story in anyway.

I'd argue that Discussions aren't a bad thing for any series. People get different things from the same series so sharing that can be very good. Arguing certain points is nothing new for Super or Dragonball as a whole. The whole franchise can be very vague on some things or pulls stuff out of nowhere all the time. So the existence of arguments doesn't necessarily make something bad, though at best it just means that the writers should have been clearer about their intentions.

[nato25]

My biggest gripe with the potara is that now both fusion methods are basically identical outside of appearance. Both now wear off in a short time span (1 hour vs 30 minutes, however with the 'fusion time being used up due to power output' this is a negligible point). Then at least in my opinion the wearing of the Potara seems to be the establishing quality of a Supreme Kai, thus why Zamasu wears decorative ones and can only time travel once he puts them on. So don't you become a Supreme Kai in the process of fusing?

One more inconsistency is Vegito's outfit. It flat out should not look like that and is meant to be a mixture of both outfits. How can the resulting outfit be the same when both characters are wearing different outfits?

Your other points are all fair enough but I raise the point that the fact we can even argue about certain points is 'bad' for the series, even if the positive outcome of discussion comes from that.

The retcon itself still makes sense. If someone likes it or not is a different matter. I doubt just wearing an earring makes the person an automatic supreme Kai. They never go into detail about the process but I assume you at least need to be a shinjin to be a Supreme kai. Otherwise any person who can high jack a pair could be an Kaioshin. Although, again, the process is never gotten into so that's guess work on my part.

Vegito's outfit should look different. You're right. But that matters as much as Trunks hair since The outfit doesn't affect the story in anyway.

I'd argue that Discussions aren't a bad thing for any series. People get different things from the same series so sharing that can be very good. Arguing certain points is nothing new for Super or Dragonball as a whole. The whole franchise can be very vague on some things or pulls stuff out of nowhere all the time. So the existence of arguments doesn't necessarily make something bad, though at best it just means that the writers should have been clearer about their intentions.

Oh I agree discussion is awesome that's why I browse the forums. Yeah I would definitely love stuff in the series to be more clear but all the classic debates of Dragon Ball (SSJ3 > Mystic, which Buu is stronger, was Gohan SSJ2) are always fun. I just
realised a lot of these are from the Buu saga so I guess that's where all the vagueness started.

If I could man I'd love to get your mini review of the Future Trunks arc, just a score and small paragraph or something Id like to hear your opinion.

[Boo Machine]

Oh I agree discussion is awesome that's why I browse the forums. Yeah I would definitely love stuff in the series to be more clear but all the classic debates of Dragon Ball (SSJ3 > Mystic, which Buu is stronger, was Gohan SSJ2) are always fun. I just
realised a lot of these are from the Buu saga so I guess that's where all the vagueness started.

If I could man I'd love to get your mini review of the Future Trunks arc, just a score and small paragraph or something Id like to hear your opinion.

I'm not very good at conveying my opinions. But, In another thread sometime ago, I gave the Future Trunks arc a letter grade. If I remember correctly, I gave it a C+. It passes but I know it can do better.

For me this arc checked all my boxes for what I look for in my DragonBall. And those boxes are-

Interesting New Characters- Zamasu is an interesting villain even if he eventually falls into the cackling villain role by the end. And of course this arcs little darling Goku Black who was just an absolute joy anytime he was on screen. When people who hate this arc still like this character, you know he is good. These two are a blast even when they're losing. They even seem to have a running joke towards the end where they get demolished everytime they start monologuing.

Expanded Lore- We learn quite a bit about the gods and time travel (even if it's head scratching at times).

Great character moments- Trunks gets most of these, but any central character has at least one where we get a little more in depth with them.

Cool fights- Episodes like 57 or 66 are probably some of the best animated fights we have in Dragonball (Aside from movies of course).

The things that drag the arc down are what drags Super down as a whole. It's really bad production Schedule. No one is given much time to produce anything to the best of their abilities. Things have improved since previous arc but it's still not in an ideal place. And the story likely wasn't much to work with either, thus could be a reason why this arc , while still being the longest Dragonball super has had, still isn't very long or really has much going on. There is a mystery and then fighting happens. The arc had to have a lot of padding in there, though depending on the viewer, certain padding is seen as a good thing or a bad thing. Stuff like Trunk's day with Gohan was really good. Pilaf spending a solid minute explaining math. Not so much.

Certain events not having any explanation can also frustrate certain people. Like Trunks new form. I don't mind it, it's just odd that no character really acknowledges it. Hell, there is a point where Black slices a giant hole in the sky with a sythe and his explanation is straight up "I have no idea what I'm doing!"

But I had fun with the arc. It was entertaining and had some pretty cool twists. When Goku got that Zeno button I'm sure most of us thought that button would save the day. Ha! Good times. If the result is good depends on the viewer of course. Some found it great that is was so bittersweet while others found it pointless and depressing. I liked it.

[Nejishiki]

I'm not sure why Old Kaioshin is retroactively foolish. He explained the Potara merging method to the best of his ability, even warning Goku against merging while transformed. Kibitoshin was living proof that it was permanent with somebody. It's reasonable for him to express what he did. The only counter to his knowledge was Boo's air, which is a factor nobody could expect. Really, who's to say he experimented Potara fusions with humans before? It's likely Gowasu knows from experience or has observed it beforehand in his universe. Lack of knowledge doesn't make for foolishness, I feel.

While on the subject of Potara, its advantage over Metamor merging remains: It's a stronger, lasts longer, and keeps gods together as it's probably intended for. By comparison, the Metamor merging method was invented by Universe 7 humans who were overcoming their natural shortcomings. It's not out there for it to be inferior to godly tools. Goku Black and Future Zamasu stole their Potara. They were never recognized as official Kaioshin to begin with. If they were, they would be assigned with linked Hakaishin, wouldn't they? They didn't want to be tied down with that connection since they planned to murder all of their fellow gods. Their foresight would be poor if they made themselves authorized Kaioshin.

Finally, is there precedence for Vegetto to break? Consider this: Kibitoshin, Vegetto, and Zamasu are the examples of Potara fusion in the story. They're considered new beings and they probably established "their look" from "birth". Perceive it that way and there's nothing inherently wrong with Vegetto maintaining his appearance. The same person is returning from his mental dimension, so to speak. With Kibitoshin and Zamasu, one could say they perfectly merged. I don't think that has to be the case though. Kibito is naturally subservient to Kaioshin & Goku Black and Future Zamasu are synced together well outside of fusion due to being the same person of different circumstances.

[nato25]

Oh I agree discussion is awesome that's why I browse the forums. Yeah I would definitely love stuff in the series to be more clear but all the classic debates of Dragon Ball (SSJ3 > Mystic, which Buu is stronger, was Gohan SSJ2) are always fun. I just
realised a lot of these are from the Buu saga so I guess that's where all the vagueness started.

If I could man I'd love to get your mini review of the Future Trunks arc, just a score and small paragraph or something Id like to hear your opinion.

I'm not very good at conveying my opinions. But, In another thread sometime ago, I gave the Future Trunks arc a letter grade. If I remember correctly, I gave it a C+. It passes but I know it can do better.

For me this arc checked all my boxes for what I look for in my DragonBall. And those boxes are-

Interesting New Characters- Zamasu is an interesting villain even if he eventually falls into the cackling villain role by the end. And of course this arcs little darling Goku Black who was just an absolute joy anytime he was on screen. When people who hate this arc still like this character, you know he is good. These two are a blast even when they're losing. They even seem to have a running joke towards the end where they get demolished everytime they start monologuing.

Expanded Lore- We learn quite a bit about the gods and time travel (even if it's head scratching at times).

Great character moments- Trunks gets most of these, but any central character has at least one where we get a little more in depth with them.

Cool fights- Episodes like 57 or 66 are probably some of the best animated fights we have in Dragonball (Aside from movies of course).

The things that drag the arc down are what drags Super down as a whole. It's really bad production Schedule. No one is given much time to produce anything to the best of their abilities. Things have improved since previous arc but it's still not in an ideal place. And the story likely wasn't much to work with either, thus could be a reason why this arc , while still being the longest Dragonball super has had, still isn't very long or really has much going on. There is a mystery and then fighting happens. The arc had to have a lot of padding in there, though depending on the viewer, certain padding is seen as a good thing or a bad thing. Stuff like Trunk's day with Gohan was really good. Pilaf spending a solid minute explaining math. Not so much.

Certain events not having any explanation can also frustrate certain people. Like Trunks new form. I don't mind it, it's just odd that no character really acknowledges it. Hell, there is a point where Black slices a giant hole in the sky with a sythe and his explanation is straight up "I have no idea what I'm doing!"

But I had fun with the arc. It was entertaining and had some pretty cool twists. When Goku got that Zeno button I'm sure most of us thought that button would save the day. Ha! Good times. If the result is good depends on the viewer of course. Some found it great that is was so bittersweet while others found it pointless and depressing. I liked it.

Haha we really think alike, my review is going to look like I used this list like checkpoints. We use number grades on our site I'm thinking a 7/10 seems fair.

[Saturnine]

To be fair, the Potara retcon is perfectly believable. The Kaioshins of U7 may have never before borrowed them to mortals, so it's perfectly plausible that they didn't know about the effect. Gowasu is way older, so he may have experienced such a thing. Old Kaioshin was sealed in the sword for millions of years, so his experience was limited.

[Shuby]

I think the potara retcon is one of the most stupidest retcons ever, it demolishes what we intially thought for 20+ plus potara fusion was. Now we will never be able to see Vegetto's fullest potential just like Gogeta's fullest potential, basically they have rendered fusion completely useless now.

[Ki Breaker]

I think the potara retcon is one of the most stupidest retcons ever, it demolishes what we intially thought for 20+ plus potara fusion was. Now we will never be able to see Vegetto's fullest potential just like Gogeta's fullest potential, basically they have rendered fusion completely useless now.

That's a good thing, the internet blew up with complaints that in future fusion will be the answer to everything, now it's not possible..

[Shuby]

Beerus killing Zamasu(a god killing a god) creating a new timeline but Zamasu killing all the gods not?

[Boo Machine]

Beerus killing Zamasu(a god killing a god) creating a new timeline but Zamasu killing all the gods not?

No other god was involved with time travel. At least not as much as Zamasu was. Zamasu was so deep in it there were 3 versions of himself in the story. 2 of which were in the same timeline. 1 of which has been into 3 different timelines. Also it's a good thing fusion can't be counted on all the time anymore. Everyone always treated it like an automatic win card for any situation. Now it can't and I couldn't be happier.

[ChronoTwigger]

It's not an inconsistency or retcon, but if you mind well, Zamasu and Black, Merged Zamasu at first, most of the time wait.
Like RPG enemies that wait hero turn to counter attack.
There are moments when it really seems they wait for an attack button to be pressed. Goku and Vegeta talk, heal, discuss, evaluate... and the enemy float doing nothing. For minutes.

[Dbzfan94]

It's not an inconsistency or retcon, but if you mind well, Zamasu and Black, Merged Zamasu at first, most of the time wait.
Like RPG enemies that wait hero turn to counter attack.
There are moments when it really seems they wait for an attack button to be pressed. Goku and Vegeta talk, heal, discuss, evaluate... and the enemy float doing nothing. For minutes.

That's just DBZ logic. Plus Black and Zamasu's egos are so huge that they think it wouldn't make a difference anyway.

[Kanassa]

It's not an inconsistency or retcon, but if you mind well, Zamasu and Black, Merged Zamasu at first, most of the time wait.
Like RPG enemies that wait hero turn to counter attack.
There are moments when it really seems they wait for an attack button to be pressed. Goku and Vegeta talk, heal, discuss, evaluate... and the enemy float doing nothing. For minutes.

That's just DBZ logic. Plus Black and Zamasu's egos are so huge that they think it wouldn't make a difference anyway.

It's anime logic, Heroes will always have time to talk about the important stuff no matter what the villain is doing.

[nato25]

I never understood all the worry about Beerus taking care of it or fusion taking care of it.

The series gave decent reasons against these two situations. Beerus doesn't really care to help them outside of maybe protecting Earth for the food but even then I wouldn't trust him to do so. And Goku and Vegeta always prefer to fight one on one, only fusing as the absolute last stand, I can't see too many people reaching the ridiculous power level of merged zamasu.

Also whoever was complaining about all the other gods being killed not creating alternate timelines, it's my understanding Beerus was just flat out wrong about his assumption of wiping out one being in any timeline wipes them from the entire existence of all timelines. He destroyed the same Zamasu that is also somehow Black (that's the part I don't get still, how two beings are from the same timeline especially when one is dead) but Black was wearing the time ring, that's why he was spared.

[Shuby]

Beerus killing Zamasu(a god killing a god) creating a new timeline but Zamasu killing all the gods not?

No other god was involved with time travel. At least not as much as Zamasu was. Zamasu was so deep in it there were 3 versions of himself in the story. 2 of which were in the same timeline. 1 of which has been into 3 different timelines. Also it's a good thing fusion can't be counted on all the time anymore. Everyone always treated it like an automatic win card for any situation. Now it can't and I couldn't be happier.

you re just using headcanons.

[Boo Machine]

Beerus killing Zamasu(a god killing a god) creating a new timeline but Zamasu killing all the gods not?

No other god was involved with time travel. At least not as much as Zamasu was. Zamasu was so deep in it there were 3 versions of himself in the story. 2 of which were in the same timeline. 1 of which has been into 3 different timelines. Also it's a good thing fusion can't be counted on all the time anymore. Everyone always treated it like an automatic win card for any situation. Now it can't and I couldn't be happier.

you re just using headcanons.

Head canons? These are things we saw happen or were told happened by the characters. I'm not sure where you think I'm making anything up.