Because they so overestimate Black's "clones"?
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- TheSaiyanGod
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Because they so overestimate Black's "clones"?
I see a lot of people overestimating the clones Black did in Episode 64, saying that he has the same strength as Black himself and that Goku and Vegeta would win.
They did not show any absurd physical strength. Throughout that fight the clones struck only one blow at Goku and Vegeta, those hits that caused no relevant damage to them.
They were broken with simple blows, punches and simple kicks of Goku and Vegeta, they had no resistance.
The biggest advantage of these clones was that they were redone several times. But we have to consider some things.
At the very end of this fight, Goku and Vegeta were not tired, they were attacking the clones all the time. Even when they came face-to-face with Black and Zamasu (shortly before the merger) they were confident they were leaving the rest with them .
Black after he had gone away from the dimensional slot (from which the clones were leaving), the crevice vanished. He showed no command to disable it (he did not even know what it was), so in a way it was a weak point.
In the fight against Hit (episode 72), he released a quantity of Ki so large that he was able to break the dimensional barrier into which Hit was hiding, destroying the scenery around him. This could not only destabilize Black's time slot, but destroy The clones and destabilize Black himself (considering that Hit hid in his space-time, that energy could hit him), giving chance to a finale with a Kamehameha (or an instant Kamehameha), just as Hit did.
Who even was able to hurt Gattai Zamasu (showing so much power that Goku had). Vegeta was not surprised, so it would not be strange for him to do the same thing.
Considering also that Vegetto was someone superior to Merged Zamasu, it is something debatable the level of Goku, Vegeta, Black and Zamasu (considering that the fusions had similar powers).
I believe that now (current episode), Goku, Vegeta and maybe even Hit have left Black behind, after all they continue to train and show a lot of evolution (I think it was a few months after the Black Saga)
They did not show any absurd physical strength. Throughout that fight the clones struck only one blow at Goku and Vegeta, those hits that caused no relevant damage to them.
They were broken with simple blows, punches and simple kicks of Goku and Vegeta, they had no resistance.
The biggest advantage of these clones was that they were redone several times. But we have to consider some things.
At the very end of this fight, Goku and Vegeta were not tired, they were attacking the clones all the time. Even when they came face-to-face with Black and Zamasu (shortly before the merger) they were confident they were leaving the rest with them .
Black after he had gone away from the dimensional slot (from which the clones were leaving), the crevice vanished. He showed no command to disable it (he did not even know what it was), so in a way it was a weak point.
In the fight against Hit (episode 72), he released a quantity of Ki so large that he was able to break the dimensional barrier into which Hit was hiding, destroying the scenery around him. This could not only destabilize Black's time slot, but destroy The clones and destabilize Black himself (considering that Hit hid in his space-time, that energy could hit him), giving chance to a finale with a Kamehameha (or an instant Kamehameha), just as Hit did.
Who even was able to hurt Gattai Zamasu (showing so much power that Goku had). Vegeta was not surprised, so it would not be strange for him to do the same thing.
Considering also that Vegetto was someone superior to Merged Zamasu, it is something debatable the level of Goku, Vegeta, Black and Zamasu (considering that the fusions had similar powers).
I believe that now (current episode), Goku, Vegeta and maybe even Hit have left Black behind, after all they continue to train and show a lot of evolution (I think it was a few months after the Black Saga)
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Re: Because they so overestimate Black's "clones"?
What makes Black's clones so strong is that they, while displaying no particular strenght, are basically immortal, as long as the Dimensional Rift is opened. Even Vegito's Final Kamehameha would have probably done nothing against thsoe clones, as they would just immediately regenerate. Black probably planned to overwhelm Goku and Vegeta not through the clones' raw strenght, but through their sheer numbers and resilience. Goku and Vegeta were indeed exhausted, right before Black left the battlefield to aid Future Zamasu, causing the rIft (and the clones) to disappear.
Also, what Black did was nothing like what Hit did. Black tore a hole, a scar, through dimensions. As Episode 67 shows, only Zeno has enough power to counter that.
Also, what Black did was nothing like what Hit did. Black tore a hole, a scar, through dimensions. As Episode 67 shows, only Zeno has enough power to counter that.
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Re: Because they so overestimate Black's "clones"?
Goku and Vegeta were exhausted? They were not even panting or tired after an endless fight against them. After Black teleported to Zamasu, Goku and Vegeta went there too, telling Trunks, Bulma and Mai to stay behind because he and Goku would take care of the rest. Not to mention the fight against Merged Zamasu in which they deactivated the SSB several times and (But strong enough to rise again). The total power of the two was able to even destroy the angel behind Zamasu and ignore their attacks, because the clones would have an effect?What makes Black's clones so strong is that they, while displaying no particular strenght, are basically immortal, as long as the Dimensional Rift is opened. Even Vegito's Final Kamehameha would have probably done nothing against thsoe clones, as they would just immediately regenerate. Black probably planned to overwhelm Goku and Vegeta not through the clones' raw strenght, but through their sheer numbers and resilience. Goku and Vegeta were indeed exhausted, right before Black left the battlefield to aid Future Zamasu, causing the rIft (and the clones) to disappear.
Also, what Black did was nothing like what Hit did. Black tore a hole, a scar, through dimensions. As Episode 67 shows, only Zeno has enough power to counter that.
Hit hides in space time, in an invisible dimension spheres. This could be even beyond the crevasse of Black that created only a cut in space. Hitto's was another dimension, but the strength of Goku's Ki was able to destroy that With Black would be the same thing.
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Re: Because they so overestimate Black's "clones"?
Goku and Vegeta had a lot of scratches. Clones kept coming in from that rift, and Goku and Vegeta obviously didn't have a clue on how to deal with them. No matter how strong they are, Goku and Vegeta cannot fight forever against an endless enemy. And Black could have just finished off Goku/Vegeta using the clones as a distraction. Of course they later told Trunks to stand back, there was no way he would prove a threat to Zamasu and Black. As for Vegeta and Goku destroying Zamasu's Light of Justice, they noticed its only weak spot and took care of it. The Light of Justice technique was still massively powerful, because it completely destroyed both Goku and Vegeta, who fell to the ground exhausted and injured. To make a comparision between franchises, the Death Star was capable of obliterating planets in a second. That power is INSANE in the Star Wars universe. It still had a weak spot, and a single fighter was able to take it out. Very powerful weapons (such as the Light of Justice and the Death Star) who however have a weak spot are very common. The bad guy needs a weakness, otherwise he'll just stomp the good guys to the seventh hell.TheSaiyanGod wrote:Goku and Vegeta were exhausted? They were not even panting or tired after an endless fight against them. After Black teleported to Zamasu, Goku and Vegeta went there too, telling Trunks, Bulma and Mai to stay behind because he and Goku would take care of the rest. Not to mention the fight against Merged Zamasu in which they deactivated the SSB several times and (But strong enough to rise again). The total power of the two was able to even destroy the angel behind Zamasu and ignore their attacks, because the clones would have an effect?What makes Black's clones so strong is that they, while displaying no particular strenght, are basically immortal, as long as the Dimensional Rift is opened. Even Vegito's Final Kamehameha would have probably done nothing against thsoe clones, as they would just immediately regenerate. Black probably planned to overwhelm Goku and Vegeta not through the clones' raw strenght, but through their sheer numbers and resilience. Goku and Vegeta were indeed exhausted, right before Black left the battlefield to aid Future Zamasu, causing the rIft (and the clones) to disappear.
Also, what Black did was nothing like what Hit did. Black tore a hole, a scar, through dimensions. As Episode 67 shows, only Zeno has enough power to counter that.
Hit hides in space time, in an invisible dimension spheres. This could be even beyond the crevasse of Black that created only a cut in space. Hitto's was another dimension, but the strength of Goku's Ki was able to destroy that With Black would be the same thing.
Now, as for your comparision between Black and Hit. Black opened a rift through dimensions. Hit just uses a parallel world, like Botamo. They are two completely different things. And unlike Hit's parallel world, Black's rift grows stronger along with Black.
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Re: Because they so overestimate Black's "clones"?
Scratches on DBS do not want to say anything. Characters that never took punches were scratched in the fight, that does not mean a lot, after all they were only shown them taking a hit during the fight.Goku and Vegeta had a lot of scratches. Clones kept coming in from that rift, and Goku and Vegeta obviously didn't have a clue on how to deal with them. No matter how strong they are, Goku and Vegeta cannot fight forever against an endless enemy. And Black could have just finished off Goku/Vegeta using the clones as a distraction. Of course they later told Trunks to stand back, there was no way he would prove a threat to Zamasu and Black. As for Vegeta and Goku destroying Zamasu's Light of Justice, they noticed its only weak spot and took care of it. The Light of Justice technique was still massively powerful, because it completely destroyed both Goku and Vegeta, who fell to the ground exhausted and injured. To make a comparision between franchises, the Death Star was capable of obliterating planets in a second. That power is INSANE in the Star Wars universe. It still had a weak spot, and a single fighter was able to take it out. Very powerful weapons (such as the Light of Justice and the Death Star) who however have a weak spot are very common. The bad guy needs a weakness, otherwise he'll just stomp the good guys to the seventh hell.
Now, as for your comparision between Black and Hit. Black opened a rift through dimensions. Hit just uses a parallel world, like Botamo. They are two completely different things. And unlike Hit's parallel world, Black's rift grows stronger along with Black.
Honestly, I do not think the clones as strategy would work out too well, they were easily destroyed, it was kind of the Naruto clones in Naruto classic, thousands, but strong enemies defeated hundreds of it effortlessly.
What I meant was that Vegeta and Goku were confident. They said they would take care of the rest while Trunks, Mai and Bulma kept looking. They even took the lead in the fight against Merged Zamasu.
Although Zamasu was much stronger than Goku and Vegeta, using all their power (they spoke clearly "Full Power"), they managed not only to resist and get up several times, but also to destroy the angel behind him. To defeat the clones was to get up to Black. With all the Ki release that Goku showed on the 72nd ep would not be a problem.
Yes, it's different things Hitito's Tokitobashi and Black's dimensional slot, but even so you're saying Black's would be unstoppable unlike Hit.
If Hit was in another dimension, another space time and even then Goku managed to break, a small cut in space would be no problem.
And I have not seen the crack improve after Black gets stronger. Even, even with Black's sickle, Vegeta deflects
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Re: Because they so overestimate Black's "clones"?
You forgot that in these circumstances, Goku and Vegeta get blocked and can't teleport away.
The real issue is that they get mafuba-zed by an endless horde of Blacks.
That lock could continue for millennia.
They where worried just 'cause all of their attacks where unuseful against that move. With enough time they could achieve some feat, but the events changed quite quickly.
In the meanwhile Zamasu was free to do his evil, and that's why they where so concerned about. They had to rush, and those clones locked them.
As for Goku breaking Hit double time dimension, you put it clear enough.
One thing is to break a wall. The other is to repair a rift.
Goku energy boost destroyed something coherent in Hit case.
Black rift was... a rift. A severance. An energy boost can't repair a broken thing.
An hammer could break a wall, but can't repair an hole.
The real issue is that they get mafuba-zed by an endless horde of Blacks.
That lock could continue for millennia.
They where worried just 'cause all of their attacks where unuseful against that move. With enough time they could achieve some feat, but the events changed quite quickly.
In the meanwhile Zamasu was free to do his evil, and that's why they where so concerned about. They had to rush, and those clones locked them.
As for Goku breaking Hit double time dimension, you put it clear enough.
One thing is to break a wall. The other is to repair a rift.
Goku energy boost destroyed something coherent in Hit case.
Black rift was... a rift. A severance. An energy boost can't repair a broken thing.
An hammer could break a wall, but can't repair an hole.
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Re: Because they so overestimate Black's "clones"?
The clones would have served their purpose though. Black sent Future Zamasu to kill Mai and Bulma, so that Trunks could unleash his rage. Through Trunks' rage, Black would have grown stronger. The clones were not meant to kill Goku and Vegeta, but (i imagine) just to keep them busy while Future Zamasu was doing all of the above. Besides, Black probably didn't know that rift generated clones of himself, as he didn't know what that rift was.Scratches on DBS do not want to say anything. Characters that never took punches were scratched in the fight, that does not mean a lot, after all they were only shown them taking a hit during the fight.
Honestly, I do not think the clones as strategy would work out too well, they were easily destroyed, it was kind of the Naruto clones in Naruto classic, thousands, but strong enemies defeated hundreds of it effortlessly.
Implying Black would give them a chance to.What I meant was that Vegeta and Goku were confident. They said they would take care of the rest while Trunks, Mai and Bulma kept looking. They even took the lead in the fight against Merged Zamasu.
Although Zamasu was much stronger than Goku and Vegeta, using all their power (they spoke clearly "Full Power"), they managed not only to resist and get up several times, but also to destroy the angel behind him. To defeat the clones was to get up to Black. With all the Ki release that Goku showed on the 72nd ep would not be a problem.
Destroying a parallel Universe is a thing. Healing a scar that tore the very fabric of reality apart is another.Yes, it's different things Hitito's Tokitobashi and Black's dimensional slot, but even so you're saying Black's would be unstoppable unlike Hit.
If Hit was in another dimension, another space time and even then Goku managed to break, a small cut in space would be no problem.
And I have not seen the crack improve after Black gets stronger. Even, even with Black's sickle, Vegeta deflects
That technique did grow stronger along with Black. It is a technique called "Violent Fierce God Slicer", which first appeared in Episode 56 when Black stabbed Vegeta with his Ki sword. The first form, which he used to mortally wound Vegeta and then Goku, is a long blade resembling a broadsword. The second version is much larger, with a slight curve to give it a resemblance to a large cutlass. This version can fire javelin-like projectiles, which Goku Black uses to defeat Goku. The third form is a large scythe, which can generate massive crescent-shaped energy waves to attack the opponent at range and can create rips in dimensional space. Energy exuding from the rift can produce replicas of Black with similar power levels that can also regenerate.
I took this from the Wikia, i hope it's not a sin worthy of death. So it looks like Black's clones are actually similiar in strenght to Black himself.
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Re: Because they so overestimate Black's "clones"?
That's why I said, in my view that served ONLY and exclusively for Zamasu to go to Trunks, to take the Mafuba and want to merge. And all the clones did was to hold Goku and Vegeta as they had no ability to defeat them With what they showed.
I did not say that he would repair the crack, but as the energy was so strong able to break another dimension, it could be affected in some way, destabilized.
This energy that Goku used was destroying everything around him, so much that Hit preferred to hide in his dimension, this could even destroy the slit of Black and the clones
I did not say that he would repair the crack, but as the energy was so strong able to break another dimension, it could be affected in some way, destabilized.
This energy that Goku used was destroying everything around him, so much that Hit preferred to hide in his dimension, this could even destroy the slit of Black and the clones
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Re: Because they so overestimate Black's "clones"?
We don't even know if that portal truly led to another dimension. Perhaps it was simply the bottomless anger that Black holds within himself. It's a very vague technique that wasn't explained very well. Saying that works like Hit's parallel universe and thus they have the same weakness is jumping off to conclusions.
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Re: Because they so overestimate Black's "clones"?
For me the whole situation was just stupid for adifferent reason so i don't care
I really miss ma boy, Black

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Re: Because they so overestimate Black's "clones"?
The clones were a threat not because of power, but because of sheer number and the ability to attack as well, when you in turn can't hurt them..
Its almost like fighting a ghost, you can't hurt them but they can
Its almost like fighting a ghost, you can't hurt them but they can
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Re: Because they so overestimate Black's "clones"?
I know that Black's sword increased in size after he increased power (this happened once), but with the scythe I think it was a bit different. He did not increase his raw power, he used anger. Power of anger is temporary. He concentrated his anger to form the sickle but did not increase his power.
And even if they had several clones and that made it difficult for Goku and Vegeta, they would be able to overcome that. So I do not see Black so much above the two (in the current episode I see the two above him), so much so that the Zamasu merger and the Vegetto merger were Well balanced (with Vegetto's slight superiority). That time slot might close or if Black was thrown away it would close.
And the power released by Goku in episode 72 was able to break another dimension, the slit could also be affected in some way
And even if they had several clones and that made it difficult for Goku and Vegeta, they would be able to overcome that. So I do not see Black so much above the two (in the current episode I see the two above him), so much so that the Zamasu merger and the Vegetto merger were Well balanced (with Vegetto's slight superiority). That time slot might close or if Black was thrown away it would close.
And the power released by Goku in episode 72 was able to break another dimension, the slit could also be affected in some way