Queerness in DB

[DragonBallLove]

Are you allright with the way Dragon Ball has been presenting queer characters over the ages? You find the stereotypes funny or offending? You offer excuses for cultural and zeitgeist bias or think that Toriyama et al have done a wrong to the LGBT rights?

First and foremost... What characters do you considerer queer, and how? Are they homosexuals, bi/pansexuals, non-binary, etc.? Where does gender studies end and xenobiology starts in the series?

Please, express yourserves. I'd very like to see what you have to say on the matter.

EDIT: after a little search I've found that similar topics had a tendence, in the past, of become derailed and prone to unsavory discussion. I'd very like to avoid this here. PLEASE try to discuss this with decency, respect and open-mindness. Thank you.

[floofychan333]

I found the portrayals of General Blue and Otokosuki offensive and they are the only characters stated to be gay. People think that Whis is gay and I think Mr Satan and Majin Buu like each other in that way. The canonly gay characters' portrayals are somewhat justified by cultural differences and the time period, but I would be pleased to see a LGBT character not portrayed offensively to redeem Dragon Ball's reputation. They made a female SSJ, why not a LGBT one?

[Thanos]

People think that Whis is gay and I think Mr Satan and Majin Buu like each other in that way.

I don't know what evidence of Whis being gay there is, and Mr. Satan and Buu? Err, wha? Not once has my mind gone there, haha.

I'm not sure I'm comfortable bringing Blue into the conversation when it comes to portrayals of homosexuals in the franchise--and this has been brought up before--it's quite obvious in the Japanese version that he's a straight-up pedophile. I think Akira Toriyama is of a very old-fashioned mindset when it comes to social issues, which is also why we see girls in the meta-series inevitably gravitate toward a housewife-type role. While I don't think it comes from a bad place, I can see how a lot of stereotypes he makes can be construed as quite offensive to some. Given that, I don't see him suddenly having some kind of social justice epiphany and including an openly gay character that isn't camp and used for comic relief, as nice to see as it may be.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

The only objectionable portrayal of homosexuality was the anime's portrayal of General Blue, which obviously conflated his orientation with that of a pedophile. Honestly, how that got past the spitball phase is beyond me. While I do realize the propaganda that lead to these misconceptions, it was mostly rooted in the 50's, 60's, and in some places, the early 70's.

Unless Japan had their sexual revolution after we did, this being on a children's cartoon just seems too weird.

That said, it is a part of history, and I would not advocate any censorship of this or anything like it.

[precita]

General Blue was written at the time of the 80's, in Japan no less, and his particular character has always been a creep looking for power. I don't think Toriyama meant any harm by it.

All the Red Ribbon Army generals were villains and evil people who enjoyed harming others, so I don't think him being a pedophile was meant to be anything more than that.

[Cipher]

Goku's queer as hell. By any remotely broad definition. He has no sex drive, and what attraction he does have seems to be driven by a gender-neutral appreciation for talent, strength and effort. He'll make the same kind of short-sighted decisions for a good fight that people with more standard psychology will for sex.

Tenshinhan and Chaozu are queer, and that isn't even a gay joke. They're totally gay for each other though.

Boo is ... amazingly not queer, if we go by his outcome in Online.

Dragon Ball is frankly filled with queer characters. Unfortunately its only openly gay ones haven't had a stellar track record. Blue seems fleshed out enough as a villain that his being gay hardly registers as an overriding gimmick or gag, which is nice, though it is used as fuel for some of the stereotypically flamboyant aspects of his personality and little else. It isn't exactly progressive, but I suppose it fits right alongside characters like Bora in terms of understandable non-malicious stereotyping. The pedophile gag in the anime and Otokosuki are things we shouldn't look back on and deem okay to repeat.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

General Blue was written at the time of the 80's, in Japan no less, and his particular character has always been a creep looking for power. I don't think Toriyama meant any harm by it.

All the Red Ribbon Army generals were villains and evil people who enjoyed harming others, so I don't think him being a pedophile was meant to be anything more than that.

Toriyama never wrote General Blue as a pedophile, that aspect of his personality was anime-only.

[precita]

Toriyama never wrote General Blue as a pedophile, that aspect of his personality was anime-only.

Oh, I didn't know that. Well, then its on Toei's writers.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Boo is ... amazingly not queer, if we go by his outcome in Online.

I don't buy that for a second. Mr. Satan had the history books re-written, he always was ashamed of Majin Bob.

[precita]

Its funny that Super confirmed Trunks sexuality with his pairing with Mai.

I don't think any main character will ever be gay in canon. Maaaybe Tenshinhan if they stretch it, but I don't know if they'd actually do it. I think they'd probably fear backlash if a long lasting character from the beginning suddenly had his sexuality confirmed.

[RedRibbonSoldier#42]

Otokosuki is pure steryotype, but only shows up for a few panels and one gag. Blue is a mix of steryotype and actual character, and his most problematic scene is anime only. Whis may or may not be. If only by there there not being many go's at it at all, there are very few problems.

[Cipher]

I don't buy that for a second. Mr. Satan had the history books re-written, he always was ashamed of Majin Bob.

Are you trying to say Mr. Satan is the father?

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Its funny that Super confirmed Trunks sexuality with his pairing with Mai.

I don't think any main character will ever be gay in canon. Maaaybe Tenshinhan if they stretch it, but I don't know if they'd actually do it. I think they'd probably fear backlash if a long lasting character from the beginning suddenly had his sexuality confirmed.

General Blue and that weird guy from EoZ... was there anyone else? Either way, I like my gay characters flamboyant and hilarious, but in a Milo Yiannopoulos Machiavellian way, not the hair-dressing glitter throwing type. Let's hope!

[precita]

Well there's also Zamasu who was gay for himself.

[Chuquita]

What about Zamasu x Gokû Black? Does that fall more under "self-love?" They're both ultimately Zamasu, but one of them's got Gokû's body and Gokû is male. Zamasu is a kaioshin so I don't know what their reproductive systems are like, but Zamasu presents as male.

Can kaioshin reproduce together? Is the "kaioshin are born from fruit from this tree" still a canon thing? I don't know.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Zamasu is a kaioshin so I don't know what their reproductive systems are like...

Everyone has a mouth. Yeah, they were queer in the best kind of way.

[Cipher]

Zamasu and Black's fuck cabin must be a stage in the next Dragon Ball game.

[Chuquita]

Zamasu and Black's fuck cabin must be a stage in the next Dragon Ball game.

Zamasu loves himself so much I could easily see their bedroom having a mirror on the ceiling.

I still wish they'd shown what the inside of the cabin itself looked like. I kept waiting for them to go inside, but it never happened. Toei probably never designed anything past the outdoor deck.

[The_Destroyer]

People think that Whis is gay and I think Mr Satan and Majin Buu like each other in that way.

I don't know what evidence of Whis being gay there is, and Mr. Satan and Buu? Err, wha? Not once has my mind gone there, haha.

I'm not sure I'm comfortable bringing Blue into the conversation when it comes to portrayals of homosexuals in the franchise--and this has been brought up before--it's quite obvious in the Japanese version that he's a straight-up pedophile. I think Akira Toriyama is of a very old-fashioned mindset when it comes to social issues, which is also why we see girls in the meta-series inevitably gravitate toward a housewife-type role. While I don't think it comes from a bad place, I can see how a lot of stereotypes he makes can be construed as quite offensive to some. Given that, I don't see him suddenly having some kind of social justice epiphany and including an openly gay character that isn't camp and used for comic relief, as nice to see as it may be.

People use the scene where Beerus's towel falls off and Whis blushes as evidence. That doesn't really confirm that he is, but that's just what I've seen used.

[FoolsGil]

Sure, Blue is flamboyant, but he's also a great fighter, with a brilliant mind and memorable villain. Sure, Toriyama's initial blueprint of the character was camp, but he built upon that. I'm not going argue against anyone who finds him offensive, but to me, flamboyancy doesn't mean anything, and heterosexual men can be camp too.

Toei's decision to write him as they did in Penguin Village, that was wrong, and offensive as fuck.

Otokosuki...yeah he's offensive

As for queries on Whis, keep in mind that being an angel, he could lack definition...down there. Until he starts making a pass at folks, he's asexual to me.

It's a bit odd that Yajirobe is just so lazy he would spend the rest of his life on a tower with another sentient male. And Korin is just cool with being with him for literally decades. TFS may be right on the money on that one.

Zamasu and Black? Yeah I can see them together.

Someone's grasping at straws when it comes to Buu and Mark. Nuff said, stop looking for something that's not there. Now, Buu apparently does have an interest in females, but even his method of mating with that Blue Female Buu from Dragon Online is weird and alien to anything else we've ever seen. The way Buus are made is pretty queer, doesn't matter who the father or mother is.

Tenshinhan and Chaozu? Maybe. But according to this interview ( http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... riyama-qa/ ) Tenshinhan isn't interested in love. Unrequited crush on Chaozu's end? We'll never know.