Did Goku have a form between God and Blue?

[ChiefWamsutta]

I have been trying to figure out for a long time what happened after Goku lost SSGod.

Is the Super Saiyan form he had a SSBlue without the god ki? Because it is Super Saiyan that absorbed the power of Super Saiyan God.

Did Vegeta ever get this form before he got SSBlue?

[Grimlock]

I have been trying to figure out for a long time what happened after Goku lost SSGod.

Goku didn't lost Super Saiyan God, he absorbed its power. In the manga continuity he can transforms into it freely.

Is the Super Saiyan form he had a SSBlue without the god ki? Because it is Super Saiyan that absorbed the power of Super Saiyan God.

I didn't understand your first question. And not exactly, in the movie continuity when Super Saiyan God's time ran out he went back to his base form. Also, if you attains a power that you made your own, how could you be able to use it only if you're transformed? It doesn't make sense if Goku can only use it while in Super Saiyan but not in base form as well.

Did Vegeta ever get this form before he got SSBlue?

Super Saiyan God you mean? If so, in the movie continuity yes. It's implied that Vegeta passed through the ritual, as he asks for Goku to colaborate with him in the next time at the end of Movie 14.

I heard that in Super Saiyan God Super Vegeta's biography in Dragon Ball Fusions states that he has Super Saiyan God, by the way. I'd love if someone could provide a confirmation about it.

[ChiefWamsutta]

I have been trying to figure out for a long time what happened after Goku lost SSGod.

Goku didn't lost Super Saiyan God, he absorbed its power. In the manga continuity he can transforms into it freely.

Is the Super Saiyan form he had a SSBlue without the god ki? Because it is Super Saiyan that absorbed the power of Super Saiyan God.

I didn't understand your first question. And not exactly, in the movie continuity when Super Saiyan God's time ran out he went back to his base form. Also, if you attains a power that you made your own, how could you be able to use it only if you're transformed? It doesn't make sense if Goku can only use it while in Super Saiyan but not in base form as well.

Did Vegeta ever get this form before he got SSBlue?

Super Saiyan God you mean? If so, in the movie continuity yes. It's implied that Vegeta passed through the ritual, as he asks for Goku to colaborate with him in the next time at the end of Movie 14.

I heard that in Super Saiyan God Super Vegeta's biography in Dragon Ball Fusions states that he has Super Saiyan God, by the way. I'd love if someone could provide a confirmation about it.

I would ask you this: what do you consider the canon Saiyan forms that they can transform into?

[Saturnine]

It's been a clusterfuck, frankly. It's implied that initially Goku had all the power of a Super Saiyan God in just his base form or Super Saiyan, but after mastering Super Saiyan with god ki the result was SSj Blue.

Initially, clearly the new paradigm was supposed to be a base form with all the power of SSj God and SSj Blue (and that's it), but they've retconned it, either to introduce a drama-preserving handicap for Goku and Vegeta, or as fanservice, to make the older, golden haired forms reappear again.

[ChiefWamsutta]

It's been a clusterfuck, frankly. It's implied that initially Goku had all the power of a Super Saiyan God in just his base form or Super Saiyan, but after mastering Super Saiyan with god ki the result was SSj Blue.

Initially, clearly the new paradigm was supposed to be a base form with all the power of SSj God and SSj Blue (and that's it), but they've retconned it, either to introduce a drama-preserving handicap for Goku and Vegeta, or as fanservice, to make the older, golden haired forms reappear again.

Right, right, right!! Uggghhhh, and the introduction back of Super Saiyan 1, 2, and 3 makes me think that they don't want SS1 to be at SSGod level anymore. In order for this to make sense, it seems Future Trunks, Zamasu, Frost, and Cabba are all around SSGod unless you say they were holding back.

For the sake of the story being consistent, we would have to assume Base, SS1, SS2, and SS3 are stronger than in the Buu Saga, but weaker than SSGod, while SSBlue is above god. Roshi commented about Goku finding a form more powerful than SSGod when Goku went SSB.

Goku and Vegeta had to have gotten stronger through training with Whis or else Goku would always be leagues above Vegeta because of the SSGod power he has. It's so confusing because what even WAS his Super Saiyan form in Ep. 14 in outer space versus Beerus. What would we qualify that as to keep consistency?

[Chuquita]

If going from magenta to blue, if there was something in between would it be purple?

[Nejishiki]

Goku merged with Super Saiyan God after its timer expired. Super Saiyan Blue is quite specifically "Super Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God" not "Super Saiyan with god ki mastered". Suffice it to say, Goku lacks god ki against Beerus when Super Saiyan God expires. Furthermore, Goku is plainly sensed afterwards so it's regular (enhanced) Super Saiyan used against Beerus. While the ending of Battle of Gods & Resurrection F suggest Super Saiyan God's ritual was performed for Vegeta, Dragon Ball Super (Toei Animation) goes out of its way to claim he didn't undergo its ritual (in others words, Vegeta lacks enhancement outside of Super Saiyan Blue).

Spoiler:

I heard that in Super Saiyan God Super Vegeta's biography in Dragon Ball Fusions states that he has Super Saiyan God, by the way. I'd love if someone could provide a confirmation about it.

Spoiler:

[Saturnine]

You can't really say Vegeta has no "enhancement" - after training with Whis he's become even stronger than God-empowered Base Goku.

The thing is, they seem to have abandoned this whole God-empowered Base concept altogether, for reasons I mentioned above. It was only ever embraced in the RoF arc and in the Potaufeu arc, the writers of which probably hadn't realized the retcon or another paradigm shift that was coming.

[Nejishiki]

Specifically, Vegeta doesn't merge with Super Saiyan God in the anime continuity, is what I'm saying. That may or may not alter strength relations outside of Super Saiyan Blue.

[Saturnine]

Specifically, Vegeta doesn't merge with Super Saiyan God in the anime continuity, is what I'm saying. That may or may not alter strength relations outside of Super Saiyan Blue.

Yeah, well that is correct. Vegeta seems to have achieved the same state or level through different means.

[Deathbringer]

Maybe he had a purple form with his hair halfway between his normal hair and his SSJ hair, I also wonder the same thing about SSJ3, did he just keep going SSJ2 but adding more power until his hair eventually started getting longer and longer? I know that SSJ1 is portrayed as an instantaneous transformation (sort of like an electric shock) but then SSJ2 is something the user has to build up to and it is possible to get it wrong like Trunks did and end up with a different form entirely.

[TheMikado]

It's simple

Anime: SSG~Base < SSJ1/2/3 < SSB
Manga: Base < SSJ1/2/3 < SSG < SSB


In the manga only SSB is above SSG, in the anime everything is above SSG.

Whether that makes sense and the story consistent or not is another issue. Do not try to mix what is presented with consistent logic. It doesn't work.

[Grimlock]

So it is true! Now if only Dragon Ball Heroes knows about this piece of information...

[TheUltimateNinja]

It's simple

Anime: SSG~Base < SSJ1/2/3 < SSB
Manga: Base < SSJ1/2/3 < SSG < SSB


In the manga only SSB is above SSG, in the anime everything is above SSG.

Whether that makes sense and the story consistent or not is another issue. Do not try to mix what is presented with consistent logic. It doesn't work.

No way, that's absurd. That would mean SSBlue is stronger than SSGod squared since it's like surpassing SSGod while already being an SSGod.

[ekrolo2]

I'm pretty sure fusions keeping Vegeta's acquisition of SSGod is a holdover from the movies where supplementary material stated Goku is the one who prompted the Whis training and Vegeta did the ritual to catch up.

[TheMikado]

It's simple

Anime: SSG~Base < SSJ1/2/3 < SSB
Manga: Base < SSJ1/2/3 < SSG < SSB


In the manga only SSB is above SSG, in the anime everything is above SSG.

Whether that makes sense and the story consistent or not is another issue. Do not try to mix what is presented with consistent logic. It doesn't work.

No way, that's absurd. That would mean SSBlue is stronger than SSGod squared since it's like surpassing SSGod while already being an SSGod.

That's exactly what it's telling us when base Goku and Vegeta can tank hits from SSJ3 Gotenks like it's nothing.

[ChiefWamsutta]

Specifically, Vegeta doesn't merge with Super Saiyan God in the anime continuity, is what I'm saying. That may or may not alter strength relations outside of Super Saiyan Blue.

Yeah, well that is correct. Vegeta seems to have achieved the same state or level through different means.

To me, the training Goku and Vegeta went through with Whis was obviously important in order to better ki-control and achieve SSBlue. However, it seemed repetitive for Goku because he already had supposedly absorbed the SSGod power.

I had a thought last night ... the last time we see Goku using his strong Base is against Monaka-Beerus in Ep. 42. He then undergoes Delayed Onset Energy Disorder in Ep. 43. We see Goku fight Copy-Vegeta in his Base form in Ep. 46.

What if during the Delayed Onset Energy Disorder, Goku lost the additional padding of his SSGod power that he absorbed and he can now only rely on the training from Whis with Vegeta?! What if this was the silent retcon?!?

[RehBeh]

I had a thought last night ... the last time we see Goku using his strong Base is against Monaka-Beerus in Ep. 42. He then undergoes Delayed Onset Energy Disorder in Ep. 43. We see Goku fight Copy-Vegeta in his Base form in Ep. 46.

What if during the Delayed Onset Energy Disorder, Goku lost the additional padding of his SSGod power that he absorbed and he can now only rely on the training from Whis with Vegeta?! What if this was the silent retcon?!?

I'm digging that.

[TheUltimateNinja]

I had a thought last night ... the last time we see Goku using his strong Base is against Monaka-Beerus in Ep. 42. He then undergoes Delayed Onset Energy Disorder in Ep. 43. We see Goku fight Copy-Vegeta in his Base form in Ep. 46.

What if during the Delayed Onset Energy Disorder, Goku lost the additional padding of his SSGod power that he absorbed and he can now only rely on the training from Whis with Vegeta?! What if this was the silent retcon?!?

He's still at least Buuhan+ in power judging by how Copy Vegeta completely thrashed Gotenks, though. So that's only like a 15-20x drop in power. And Base Vegeta was equal to Base Goku pre disorder and Vegeta never experienced any power loss.

[ChiefWamsutta]

I had a thought last night ... the last time we see Goku using his strong Base is against Monaka-Beerus in Ep. 42. He then undergoes Delayed Onset Energy Disorder in Ep. 43. We see Goku fight Copy-Vegeta in his Base form in Ep. 46.

What if during the Delayed Onset Energy Disorder, Goku lost the additional padding of his SSGod power that he absorbed and he can now only rely on the training from Whis with Vegeta?! What if this was the silent retcon?!?

He's still at least Buuhan+ in power judging by how Copy Vegeta completely thrashed Gotenks, though. So that's only like a 15-20x drop in power. And Base Vegeta was equal to Base Goku pre disorder and Vegeta never experienced any power loss.

Could it be anywhere possible that either Base Goku was higher than Base Vegeta by the small margin because of SSGod? Basically meaning, Goku's Base = Whis Training + SSGod Power, while Vegeta's Base = Whis Training.

Yeah, I got pissed when I recalled that the Copy-Vegeta arc was right after the Delayed Onset Energy Disorder episode. It just can't line up!