Goku's age upon meeting Bulma

[cheddarsword]

Ok, I was told to ask when I have questions regarding inconsistencies, so I have one. According to the wiki (yes... that one...) Goku was born either in Age 737 (Anime) or in Age 736, with Bulma being born earlier in Age 733.

Now, this would put either 3 or 4 years between them.

However, as I am now reading through the original manga for the first time, Goku himself states that he's 14, to which Bulma runs him out of the bathroom stating that he's only 2 years younger than her.

Now before you say anything, my problem isn't regarding his size. Saiyans age differently than humans, so naturally I put two and two together and figured that they also mature slower too. And yes, I know that Toriyama didn't have that kind of thing in mind at the time.

My point is... Just what information do I believe here? If it matters, I'm reading the English translation of the Dragonball manga. Not sure if that matters but let's face it, my Japanese is limited to only a few words and only if I HEAR them. I can't read Japanese for shit.

[sintzu]

Goku couldn't count so later at the tournament he says he's 12.

[cheddarsword]

Goku couldn't count so later at the tournament he says he's 12.

Oh, right. I forgot this is GOKU we're talking about here. Math wizard, rocket scientist and all around genius.

But still, is the wiki accurate on this one? it seems like the only sources are Bardock: The Father of Goku (loosely apparently) and Dragon Ball Minus, which both drastically contradict each other.

Indeed. Those two sources are the ONLY info showing just how old Goku is to my knowledge. I watched Broly: The Legendary Super Saiyan in Japanese and the subtitles don't mention anything other than Goku and Broly being born on the same day, one right after the other, without even stating which one came first.

And in Bardock: The Father of Goku's English dub, "Fasha" (Selypa... did I spell it right?) states that he was born "A few days ago" with the original Japanese dub not even saying that much.

I'm mostly looking into this for my Broly fanfic... but the answer varies by source and version.

On an unrelated note: Most of Broly's more memorable lines seem to come from the English dub. "Is that anything like a coffin?" isn't in the Japanese version.

[sintzu]

But still, is the wiki accurate on this one?

I think it was in the English dub as well.

[cheddarsword]

But still, is the wiki accurate on this one?

I think it was in the English dub as well.

Huh. Well, I figured that the Manga was closer to accurate and faster to get through than watching the anime, so that was what I went with.

So basically, 13 if Minus is accepted, 12 if Minus is ignored, right?

Of course, I guess for Broly it doesn't really mater, as for some odd reason, someone said he's still born the same year in Minus as he was in the Anime... I should really look into Minus a bit more.

[sintzu]

13 if Minus is accepted, 12 if Minus is ignored, right?

Most fans ignore minus so he was 12.

[cheddarsword]

13 if Minus is accepted, 12 if Minus is ignored, right?

Most fans ignore minus so he was 12.

As do I. Thanks for the help!

[Kaboom]

As far as I'm aware, there's no contradiction between the Bardock special and Minus when it comes to Goku's birth date and age. It just moved Planet Vegeta's destruction forward to when li'l Kakarrot was ~3 years old instead of a few days at most after he was born. That just means fewer years passed on Earth between when Gohan Sr found him and when he met Bulma at age 12.

And in Bardock: The Father of Goku's English dub, "Fasha" (Selypa... did I spell it right?)

Yep, her name comes from "parsley," so the commonly accepted "Selypa" spelling preserves that best.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

As far as I'm aware, there's no contradiction between the Bardock special and Minus when it comes to Goku's birth date and age. It just moved Planet Vegeta's destruction forward to when li'l Kakarrot was ~3 years old instead of a few days at most after he was born. That just means fewer years passed on Earth between when Gohan Sr found him and when he met Bulma at age 12.

Kinda-sorta? Depends on how literally you take Gine's statement.

The bulk of Jaco paints the story as being told 10 years before the start of Dragon Ball, in August or September of AGE 739. The calendar at Omori's jumps back and forth. If you want to count Bluma's birthday as August 18th from other supplemental info, only August makes sense. It all works though, and nothing implies Minus takes place a significant amount before Jaco either, which leads to...

If young Kakarotto has been in that pod for 3 literal years, that pushes his birth back into 736.
Or, you can count it as "3 years", in that he's been in there during 737, 738 and 739.
Or Gine just rounded up.

[cheddarsword]

As far as I'm aware, there's no contradiction between the Bardock special and Minus when it comes to Goku's birth date and age. It just moved Planet Vegeta's destruction forward to when li'l Kakarrot was ~3 years old instead of a few days at most after he was born. That just means fewer years passed on Earth between when Gohan Sr found him and when he met Bulma at age 12.

Kinda-sorta? Depends on how literally you take Gine's statement.

The bulk of Jaco paints the story as being told 10 years before the start of Dragon Ball, in August or September of AGE 739. The calendar at Omori's jumps back and forth. If you want to count Bluma's birthday as August 18th from other supplemental info, only August makes sense. It all works though, and nothing implies Minus takes place a significant amount before Jaco either, which leads to...

If young Kakarotto has been in that pod for 3 literal years, that pushes his birth back into 736.
Or, you can count it as "3 years", in that he's been in there during 737, 738 and 739.
Or Gine just rounded up.

Oh goodie, another source of confusion.

So then that leaves the ENGLISH DUB of Bardock: the Father of Goku as the main source... or the Japanese dub if Selypa's time generalization is acceptable, which let's face it, they're both about the same. The English dub just gives a more precise timing.

But at least I have my main answer. Goku was 12, because Minus seems to be a sh!tstorm of confusion.

I should really look into Minus though. At least then I can recognize Dragon Bull when it comes up in a discussion.

[floofychan333]

I believe it's 12, but in my opinion he looks like he's 8 and still looks 8 at age 15. I get that it's Saiyajins maturing slower, but still, I'm 16 and I look nothing like an 8-year-old. Maybe in Dragon World everyone suddenly begins to look like an adult at age 16 (except Kuririn).

[cheddarsword]

I believe it's 12, but in my opinion he looks like he's 8 and still looks 8 at age 15. I get that it's Saiyajins maturing slower, but still, I'm 16 and I look nothing like an 8-year-old. Maybe in Dragon World everyone suddenly begins to look like an adult at age 16 (except Kuririn).

Trunks and Goten have the same problem.

Pan as well if you count GT. Bulla on the other hand had the OPPOSITE problem. She is the ONLY saiyan to actually look OLDER than she really is. Because remember, she's younger than Pan.

Overall, I'd say Gohan aged somewhat normally. A little slow but not bad.

Vegeta however, I could see being hard to judge. He's kinda short. Well, shorter than Goku and Gohan at least. Or maybe they're just tall? Well, King Vegeta wasn't that short, so... yeah.

However... Tarble seems to have the biggest maturity problem. He HAS to be over 30 when seen in that special and yet he looks like he's in his mid teens! He's shorter than even VEGETA!

Moving away from canon... Broly, untransformed, is quite tall. Taller than Goku I think.

Saiyan maturity is tough to call.

[DanielSSJ]

Jaco: The Galactic Patrolman and Dragon Ball Minus do contradict the original manga as far as the leads' ages go. The story is said to take place about ten years before the first chapter of Dragon Ball, and Bulma is said to be five at the time, where Goku is three. In the manga, Goku is twelve at the start and Bulma is sixteen. While it certainly isn't impossible for one of them to be slightly more or slightly less than ten years older than they were in Jaco, based on when their birthdays fall in the year, it isn't possible for the age difference between them vary from two years to four years. Either Goku is actually older than he thinks he is, and Gohan was off by a year when guessing his age, or Toriyama forgot how old they were supposed to be, which isn't far-fetched, given the age errors in Battle of Gods.

As far as Goku's physical appearance during the early days of Dragon Ball, Jaco actually explain that Saiyan's have a particularly long childhood. I guess Goten and Trunks inherited this instead of the tail trait or something.

[cheddarsword]

Jaco: The Galactic Patrolman and Dragon Ball Minus do contradict the original manga as far as the leads' ages go. The story is said to take place about ten years before the first chapter of Dragon Ball, and Bulma is said to be five at the time, where Goku is three. In the manga, Goku is twelve at the start and Bulma is sixteen. While it certainly isn't impossible for one of them to be slightly more or slightly less than ten years older than they were in Jaco, based on when their birthdays fall in the year, it isn't possible for the age difference between them vary from two years to four years. Either Goku is actually older than he thinks he is, and Gohan was off by a year when guessing his age, or Toriyama forgot how old they were supposed to be, which isn't far-fetched, given the age errors in Battle of Gods.

As far as Goku's physical appearance during the early days of Dragon Ball, Jaco actually explain that Saiyan's have a particularly long childhood. I guess Goten and Trunks inherited this instead of the tail trait or something.

I always figured that after having to deal with Goku transforming into an Oozaru as a kid and knowing how to stop it, they just cut them off at birth. Makes no real sense why Chichi kept Gohan's tail though... did she not know? I guess she didn't really travel with them all that much, so that would make sense. I mean, Goku himself didn't know until Vegeta did it right in front of him.

But then... with no moon... that kind of defeats the purpose of lopping off the tails.

Pan and Bulla don't have them either. [spoiler]In fact, in Super, Bulla was "born" without one it seems![/spoiler]

Also, in GT, the "long childhood" thing doesn't seem to apply to Bulla. She seems to have jumped from child to teenager, while Pan ends up looking as old as Goten should in Super!

[DanielSSJ]

I always figured that after having to deal with Goku transforming into an Oozaru as a kid and knowing how to stop it, they just cut them off at birth. Makes no real sense why Chichi kept Gohan's tail though... did she not know? I guess she didn't really travel with them all that much, so that would make sense. I mean, Goku himself didn't know until Vegeta did it right in front of him.

But then... with no moon... that kind of defeats the purpose of lopping off the tails.

Pan and Bulla don't have them either. [spoiler]In fact, in Super, Bulla was "born" without one it seems![/spoiler]

Also, in GT, the "long childhood" thing doesn't seem to apply to Bulla. She seems to have jumped from child to teenager, while Pan ends up looking as old as Goten should in Super!

According to Daizenshuu 4, the second generation of Saiyan halflings trade in their tails for a higher battle power and easy access to Super Saiyan.

Particularly, those Halflings born without tails hide an exceptional battle power. There are many things that they naturally master from a young age, such as the ordinarily arduous transformation into a Super Saiyan.

[cheddarsword]

I always figured that after having to deal with Goku transforming into an Oozaru as a kid and knowing how to stop it, they just cut them off at birth. Makes no real sense why Chichi kept Gohan's tail though... did she not know? I guess she didn't really travel with them all that much, so that would make sense. I mean, Goku himself didn't know until Vegeta did it right in front of him.

But then... with no moon... that kind of defeats the purpose of lopping off the tails.

Pan and Bulla don't have them either. [spoiler]In fact, in Super, Bulla was "born" without one it seems![/spoiler]

Also, in GT, the "long childhood" thing doesn't seem to apply to Bulla. She seems to have jumped from child to teenager, while Pan ends up looking as old as Goten should in Super!

According to Daizenshuu 4, the second generation of Saiyan halflings trade in their tails for a higher battle power and easy access to Super Saiyan.

Particularly, those Halflings born without tails hide an exceptional battle power. There are many things that they naturally master from a young age, such as the ordinarily arduous transformation into a Super Saiyan.

So you mean to tell me that Goten, Trunks and Bulla have a higher potential than Gohan and Goku? Or, more accurately, have it easier than Gohan and Goku?

I wonder about Pan though. She's 3rd generation, right? I don't know if she was born with a tail or not though.

Hmm... HAHAHAHAHA! Mental image time! The look on a doctor's face as he delivers Gohan, TAIL AND ALL! "Th-This isn't right! This baby has a tail! QUICK! CALL THE MINISTER! WE GOT OURSELVES A DEMON BABY!"

Back on topic though (LOL! ROFL! HAHAHA! SO FUNNY!) I do wonder about thinning out the saiyan blood. I would think it would be a bad thing but maybe it's a good thing? With what Toriyama seems to be doing with Pan in super, we may very well see what he intended to do about the mixed blood situation.

[tasuxeda]

In all probability the age that Goku stated was likely Gohan's estimation of Goku's age when he found Goku plus the years since them, after all Gohan wouldn't have any way to know how old Goku really is so it is possible that Goku is older than he thought.

[cheddarsword]

In all probability the age that Goku stated was likely Gohan's estimation of Goku's age when he found Goku plus the years since them, after all Gohan wouldn't have any way to know how old Goku really is so it is possible that Goku is older than he thought.

Not if you take sources into account. In the anime, Goku was born either the day of or days before the destruction of Planet Vegeta. In Minus, apparently it gets more confusing with (I hope I'm understanding this right) the destruction of Planet Vegeta being moved FORWARD two years (from 737 to 739) and Goku's birth being moved BACK a year (From 737 to 736).

As such, there's no way he could be OLDER than 13, let alone 14.

[mabalia]

Jaco: The Galactic Patrolman and Dragon Ball Minus do contradict the original manga as far as the leads' ages go. The story is said to take place about ten years before the first chapter of Dragon Ball, and Bulma is said to be five at the time, where Goku is three. In the manga, Goku is twelve at the start and Bulma is sixteen. While it certainly isn't impossible for one of them to be slightly more or slightly less than ten years older than they were in Jaco, based on when their birthdays fall in the year, it isn't possible for the age difference between them vary from two years to four years. Either Goku is actually older than he thinks he is, and Gohan was off by a year when guessing his age, or Toriyama forgot how old they were supposed to be, which isn't far-fetched, given the age errors in Battle of Gods.

As far as Goku's physical appearance during the early days of Dragon Ball, Jaco actually explain that Saiyan's have a particularly long childhood. I guess Goten and Trunks inherited this instead of the tail trait or something.

In all probability the age that Goku stated was likely Gohan's estimation of Goku's age when he found Goku plus the years since them, after all Gohan wouldn't have any way to know how old Goku really is so it is possible that Goku is older than he thought.

This is how I interpret Goku's age after Minus. What's clear now is that Bulma is just 2 years older than Goku, if Bulma was 16 at the beginning of the manga, so Goku was 14 years old, he's just unaware of his real age. And that makes Goku older than Kuririn by 1 year and older than Chichi by 2 years.

And yes, I take Minus and Jaco manga into consideration when I analyse DB, not just because it's canon but because I trully enjoyed them.

[cheddarsword]

I don't know, it just makes no sense to me for a creator to take away so much of something that has been established within his lore, even if it wasn't done so by themself. There's nothing wrong with Dragon Ball the way that it was. I see no reason for him to have done it. He even LIKED the Bardock special.

I don't accept Minus as canonical and there are several others that don't as well. For me, Goku would be 12.

However, I intend no offense to those that do accept it.