Piccolo's Strength Post-Kaio Training

[dragonball0900]

This is something I really want to look into. All we know is that it should be less than Frieza's suppressed power he used against Nail, which is less than 530,000. We also know that he should be way above the average Namekian warrior, above 3,000, considering Nail's comments.

We also know that Piccolo should be above 4,000, since Piccolo was confident in defeating someone that is above the guy that defeated him, in this case Nappa, who has a power level of 4,000 (when he fought the Z fighters).

Piccolo was also aware, before dying, that Vegeta was stronger than Nappa. However, he didn't know Vegeta's power since he never sensed it. But at least, Piccolo would have an idea that Vegeta would be far above 4,000, so Piccolo after the 6 days of training he would be not a bit stronger, he would be way stronger than 4,000, possibly surpassing the 10,000. If we take the anime into account, and consider the namekian warriors who fought Frieza at Guru's place that had 10,000 of power, then Piccolo would be above that level because of Nail's comments. It ties well with Piccolo's confidence on deafeating someone "stronger than Vegeta", despite not knowing how strong Vegeta would be.

Logically, Piccolo should also be weaker than Goku's 90,000, since Goku received multiple zenkais and trained with a much higher gravity, while Piccolo only trained with a less intensity of gravity and not getting power ups with zenkais.

Unfortunately, we don't have anything more than that to know how strong Piccolo is other than 10,000<Piccolo<90,000. Anything else for proof would be pretty much just speculation. For example, for now I have Piccolo (post King Kai) at the level he had in Movie 3, The Tree of Might. His level with weighted clothes would be 18,000, and his level without them would be 23,000. That level would be alright, since his boost in King Kai's planet wouldn't be that big, and would put him over Vegeta. It also ties with my own power levels. I have Piccolo post Nail fusion at 1,300,000. My formula for the fusion would be (x+y)*20. (42,000+23,000)*20 = 1,300,000. It also ties well with Nail's comments about Piccolo's power being great, which is stronger than any average Namekian warrior.

As I previously said, what was said on the previous paragraph is all just speculation and it's just my own take on the situation. I would really like to know what you guys think of this.

[DBZ Macky]

In lieu of Piccolo once again making incredible gains in Super and not to mention him gaining power comparable to a Super Saiyan in the androids arc, I'd say Piccolo always had the potential to get strong as hell and just needed the right conditions for training.

Tenshinhan said that he'd modify Kaio's training if he wants to surpass Goku, I don't see why Piccolo wouldn't be able to do the same.

That being said, I have Piccolo at 65,000 unweighted, seeing how he made Nail wonder how he got so strong but was still weaker than Freeza.

[dragonball0900]

In lieu of Piccolo once again making incredible gains in Super and not to mention him gaining power comparable to a Super Saiyan in the androids arc, I'd say Piccolo always had the potential to get strong as hell and just needed the right conditions for training.

Tenshinhan said that he'd modify Kaio's training if he wants to surpass Goku, I don't see why Piccolo wouldn't be able to do the same.

That being said, I have Piccolo at 65,000 unweighted, seeing how he made Nail wonder how he got so strong but was still weaker than Freeza.

Well yeah, I don't disagree with that, and it's a good possibility too. Though I do believe that the reason why Piccolo made better gains in the Android arc as well as Super, is firstly because of the time (it passed 3 years for the Androids, here it's just 6 days), and also because of his fusions. Nail's fusion could potentially given him a better potential for training boosts. I mean, before Nail's fusion, was Piccolo receiving any of these large gains? Not really, his gains in the Saiyan arc are like the same as the humans. There's also the fact that Piccolo trained just 6 days, it's not like Tien, Yamcha and Chiaotzu who trained for months there. It would really seem strange that Piccolo would make a completely big boost in just 6 days. And Nail's comment doesn't really mean that he has to be stronger than him, it only means that Piccolo was stronger than what he thought, meaning that he's stronger than an average namekian.

Anyway, that's just my opinion on the matter, and I like yours too. Other's opinions are welcomed here too.

[LightBing]

Since Nail says the Nameless Namekian would be able to defeat Freeza and based on what Guru said previously in the arc:
Chapter: 265 (DBZ 71), P3.4-5
Context: the Great Elder reads Kuririn’s mind and learns of God and Piccolo.
Great Elder: “Hmf! He split in two, long ago…after evil entered into him! How foolish… He diminished by half the genius power with which he was gifted at birth! If he had come back together as one, he might not have had to die…”

Piccolo needs to be at 265.000 at the very least, since Freeza is at 530.000 and like the Great Elder said his power is also diminished by half. The power increase Piccolo got in the Android Arc after fusing with Kami in my opinion supports this idea.

I don't like it but it's what the story gives us. Piccolo got the "4 months Freeza treatment" from Mr.Toriyama.

How I justify it in-universe is that besides the six day's of training, the fight against Nappa helped a lot. If you look Piccolo's numbers before and after his battle with Raditz, you notice a small increase in the scouter reading from 322 to 329. I assume something like this happened but in a much larger scale.

[DBZ Macky]

Sure, it's what the story had implied. But Freeza hadn't surfaced his Ki until much later and nobody could tell how strong he really was until then. Not to mention he could also transform.

Nail says that he has a good idea of Freeza's power, but does he really?

We have Vegeta at 250k fighting evenly with Freeza. Freeza can control his battle power, so I'd say he was still not going all out (maybe using half of his power). Piccolo freaked out after Freeza powered up, while Vegeta was able to face that same Freeza evenly. That would peg Piccolo way below 250k in my book.

[LightBing]

Sure, it's what the story had implied. But Freeza hadn't surfaced his Ki until much later and nobody could tell how strong he really was until then. Not to mention he could also transform.

Nail says that he has a good idea of Freeza's power, but does he really?

We have Vegeta at 250k fighting evenly with Freeza. Freeza can control his battle power, so I'd say he was still not going all out (maybe using half of his power). Piccolo freaked out after Freeza powered up, while Vegeta was able to face that same Freeza evenly. That would peg Piccolo way below 250k in my book.

I checked the manga and Nail certainly knows the full extent of First Form Freeza's power.
He was still alive when Freeza powered up against Vegeta, Kuririn and Gohan. So even if he couldn't ascertain Freeza's power from their bout, Freeza made it pretty clear afterwards and Nail never lost consciousness.
Immediately in the next panel Piccolo finds Nail, taking about out-of-universe for a moment, it seems Mr.Toriyama is being straightforward and telling us it's actually Freeza's Full Power and that the Nameless Namekian would beat that power.

Regarding Vegeta 250k that number is from V-Jump. Looking at all the battles with actual numbers provided in the manga, someone fighting evenly while being 50% weaker is unheard of. Better yet, someone fighting evenly while being 25% weaker is unheard of. It goes against the logic of the manga by a large margin.

For reference: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=14197&start=8100#p1104595

If you add together the numbers of Vegeta, Kuririn and Gohan the result is 525.000. Just a bit below Freeza's.
I assume whoever did those numbers looked at the quotes below and made a simple addition operation. Which is not how these numbers work in Dragon Ball at all.
[spoiler]Chapter: 295 (DBZ 101), P9.1-5
Vegeta: “We can win! If the 3 of us fight together, we’ll be able to win somehow or another! [ ] It seems that even Freeza hasn’t noticed…These two’s battle power is steadily rising…”

Chapter: 295 (DBZ 101), P13.6
Context: after grappling with Vegeta for awhile, after Vegeta said they could win
Gohan: “It-it’s true…! If we 3 fight together, we might really be able to manage something…H-he really is absolutely incredible, but we’ve gotten better too…!”[/spoiler]

Yeah, putting Piccolo at 260.00 plus doesn't feel good but it's what the story provides. I put it in the same league as Freeza's 4 months power up, necessary for the story but with very weak explanations.