When did fans referring to Toriyama on a first name basis first begin?

[Chuquita]

Question that someone who's been around the fandom longer than I may be able to answer. I've never seen people refer to One Piece author Eiichiro Oda as "Eiichiro", but there's seemingly always been fans who call Akira Toriyama, "Akira".

So, the film "Akira" came out in 1988. Did the familiarity of a film sharing Dragon Ball's author's name lead fans back in the 90's to begin to refer to Toriyama by his birth name because they recognized the word? If the film was instead called "Masashi" back then would there be a group of fans calling Kishimoto by his birth name?

How many newer fans know there's a movie/manga called "Akira"? Is it just something that's become part of the nomenclature?

I got into Dragon Ball after this was already a thing, and the fact that it's been so much time since and I still see people doing it, I'm curious how exactly it began.

[TheZFighter]

I've always just called him AT or Toriyama, personally.

[Cure Dragon 255]

I have never seen anyone call Akira Toriyama "Akira". Its always Toriyama...and thank god for that! I really dont like fandoms that feel the creator is "One of the boys" and can be casually adressed by name. Drives me NUTS!

[Chuquita]

I always thought it was because of the film and thought it was unusual how long it's persisted.

I've always called him Toriyama.

There's a thread that just started here earlier today and the topic title refers to Toriyama by his birth name. I'm surprised that trend is still going on and it inspired me to ask how it began.

[Cure Dragon 255]

Link or it didnt happen lol.

[Chuquita]

Link or it didnt happen lol.

Sigh. I just want to know how it started. I thought it was a well known enough thing where I wouldn't be asked to prove it existed. That's not the point.

This one from today inspired me to ask: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=39142

Here's one from February:
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=29174&p=863361

Here's a reddit thread from three years ago:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit ... bdbz_plot/

I'd rather have an answer to my original question, but maybe nobody knows the answer. Maybe anyone who could've answered is gone.

[Cure Dragon 255]

Maybe its simply that its not really something that anyone here is familiar with. Everyone here calls him Toriyama. Sans those guys you mentioned.

[Chuquita]

Likely so. I was hoping there was a story/history behind it, maybe there isn't after all.

[rereboy]

I and most people call him Toriyama because it's a more specific name than Akira. The name Akira by itself isn't immediately associated with DB. And I've never noticed people calling him Akira frequently so I couldn't say "when" it happened.

However, I see no problem in people doing it. We are communicating informally online and we aren't even talking to him. Suggesting that in such circumstances referring to him as Akira is somehow disrespectful or in bad taste sounds ridiculous to me.

[Cure Dragon 255]

Its not really "Disrespectful" its just really annoying. I tend to associate such terminology with crazy fans and so on.

[Boo Machine]

I don't think something like that really starts anywhere. There is just some people who are used to calling people by their first names, so that's what they do. Where I'm from, calling someone by their last name doesn't happen very often. It's either First name, Full name or Nick Name.

[rereboy]

Its not really "Disrespectful" its just really annoying. I tend to associate such terminology with crazy fans and so on.

That's just another term for it. Like I said, I see no problem with it when we are talking informally online and we aren't even talking to him. I see no reason to think a fan is crazy just because he prefers to use his first name instead of his last name in such an environment.

[SpiritBombTriumphant]

I think it's just the laws of the universe. One fandom will always call the creator by his or her full name, another fandom will call the creator by his or her last name, and so on and so forth. I remember back in middle and high school, EVERYONE always addressed me by my first and last name. EVERYONE. I'm like, "Why do you all do that? Why not just call me by my first name? Or even my last name?" The person I asked, one of the cool kids, said, "I dunno."

So that's your answer, OP. I dunno. That's just how it is. I refer to Akira Toriyama as Toriyama, and if I cared enough about One Piece to join a community forum about it, I would refer to him as Eich-whatever his first name is Oda. Or just Oda.

[cheddarsword]

I call him Toriyama. Just feels natural to me. Also, calling him Akira might mess with my head a bit as I read the Zelda mangas which are written by Akira Himekawa (A two woman team).

[sintzu]

I don't think it has anything to do with being disrespectful but more of just wanting to use a shorter name. I and the majority call him by his last name but I think I've seen a few times (less than 5) someone call him Akira.

[Kamiccolo9]

Do those of you who say that this is rare not pay attention on the forums, like, at all? It's everywhere here.

It's also fucking obnoxious, and needs to go away.

[Ki Breaker]

To my understanding, this phenomenon started not because of the film Akira, but because of a large majority of fans not knowing that's not how one should address someone like this..

This is my hypothesis and mine alone, take it as you wish, everytime I see someone call him Akira, it's after someone called him Akira Toriyama somewhere along the way to that post, some people just call him by his name because they lack the knowledge regarding this issue, when they see toriyama is not his name, they don't use it and use what logic they are most familiar with in regards to addressing someone..

It's disrespectful yes, but it's not an issue that can be "solved" , there will always be people who either lack the knowledge or lack the brains to acquire that knowledge, the first one rectifies themselves after coming across threads like this, the second one, not so much..

[Zephyr]

You'd think if someone wanted to shorten his name, Tori would work just fine. It's shorter than "Akira". AT, as has already been suggested, also works better.

It's not even a Japanese thing, really. Actors, authors, directors, etc. here in the US are referred to by their last names as well, for the most part. Speilberg, Chappelle, Nozick, etc. It would be obnoxious to hear people talk about them like they're on a first name basis, just the same as with Toriyama. Not because it's "disrespectful" or anything. There's just something grating and awkward about it.

[Kunzait_83]

So, the film "Akira" came out in 1988. Did the familiarity of a film sharing Dragon Ball's author's name lead fans back in the 90's to begin to refer to Toriyama by his birth name because they recognized the word? If the film was instead called "Masashi" back then would there be a group of fans calling Kishimoto by his birth name?

Yeah so allow me to, I hope definitively, nip this in the bud right here and now: as someone who

A) Got into anime directly because of Akira's U.S. release in '89.

B) Has known about DB/Z since around 1990/1991

C) Has been watching/reading it since 1992

And D) Has stuck with it for FAR too long all these many years since...

Allow me to confirm that fans calling Akira Toriyama "Akira" was NOT AT FUCKING ALL, in ANY WHICH WAY a thing that anyone ever did throughout the ENTIRETY of the 90s, from front to back. LEAST of all because of the Otomo manga and anime.

Like any other well regarded manga author, it was always, always, ALWAYS "Toriyama-sensei" to virtually EVERYONE. In every which way the same as people would address other beloved manga authors like Rumiko Takahashi, Leiji Matsumoto, Kazuo Koike, Ryuoichi Ikegami, Masamune Shirow, etc.

Hell I don't even think that calling Toriyama by his first name was even a thing in the EARLY days of dub fandom (late 90s and early 2000s). Without in any way joking, I genuinely question how much of dub fandom from that early on even knew (or cared) who DB's creator was, much less would think to refer to him by either a first or last name basis (hell a substantial portion of them that far back used to think that Cartoon Network themselves had personally created and animated DBZ and every other anime shown on it).

Earliest that I've seen this "Akira" phenomenon crop up was mid 2000s, maybe shortly after the Kanz forums started existing. If it went on at all earlier than that, than it must've started somewhere deep, deep, deep within the recesses of dub fandom on whatever dub-centric forums were a thing in the first half of the 2000s (Atari forums? FUNi forums? GameFaqs? MFG? Fuck if I know). Maybe a few of the goons on Mr. Popo's Palace (if anyone remembers that little oddity) might've done it earlier in the early-most 2000s, but fuck if I can remember even a tenth of what those guys used to blather on about.

And I ESPECIALLY doubt that this dub-centric corner of fandom would've started doing this due to Otomo's Akira. Akira is the sort of title that I genuinely, sincerely find to be nothing short of miraculous that ANY of post-Toonami anime fandom has even the least bit awareness of existing. Most fans of that era (and after) though are far from diehard fans of the Akira anime or manga to any significant degree.

With most post-CN fans it generally seems to be more of a vague, nebulous awareness that Akira was at one time a majorly iconic and popular anime where someone screams "TETSUOOOOOO!!!!" a lot and features some cool motorcycles and a dude turning into a giant flesh-blob creature at the end. That's effectively the extent of it (but apparently enough so that FUNi saw fit to acquire its license awhile back, which I still to this day find pretty stunning on their part). Its hardly at all on the same level of care or awareness as *inset X Shonen mega-franchise here*.

I have my own personal theories on why the whole "call Akira Toriyama by his first name" thing came about, but it's nothing but raw speculation on my end. Ultimately I don't know for sure exactly, because I'm not a fan who came into any of this through the dub and its particular stripe of fan culture.

All I CAN say for definitively sure is that this was NEVER something that happened at ANY point in the 90s, and that I very, VERY much doubt that the Akira manga/anime has anything the least bit to do with it. From 1990 to 1999 (and hell even 2000) it was almost ALWAYS "Toriyama-sensei". Period.

To my understanding, this phenomenon started not because of the film Akira, but because of a large majority of fans not knowing that's not how one should address someone like this..

This is my hypothesis and mine alone, take it as you wish, everytime I see someone call him Akira, it's after someone called him Akira Toriyama somewhere along the way to that post, some people just call him by his name because they lack the knowledge regarding this issue, when they see toriyama is not his name, they don't use it and use what logic they are most familiar with in regards to addressing someone..

It's disrespectful yes, but it's not an issue that can be "solved" , there will always be people who either lack the knowledge or lack the brains to acquire that knowledge, the first one rectifies themselves after coming across threads like this, the second one, not so much..

I mean.... I sorta see where you're coming from here, and I do certainly agree that early dub fandom was particularly clueless on DB being a Japanese thing.... but come on dude. Its disrespectful for a total stranger to refer to an older, more "distinguished" (for lack of a better word) person by their first name EVEN IN NORTH AMERICA.

Even right here in USA you DON'T see fans refer to Kevin Eastman as "Kevin" or Chris Claremont as "Chris", Frank Miller as "Frank" etc. People do certainly call Stan Lee "Stan", sure, but that's because that dude specifically makes a POINT of being more personable with fans and going out of his way to actively encourage them to refer to him by his first name. Even outside of comics, do people call Martin Scorsese "Marty", or David Cronenberg "Dave", or Sam Raimi "Sam"? Steven Spielberg "Steve"? Richard Dawkins as "Richard" or "Dick" (well I'm sure some Christian fundamentalists call him by the latter plenty)? Neil deGrasse Tyson as "Neal"?

You live in ANY civilized society, you should know damn well NOT to address anyone and everyone, no matter who they are or what their station in life is, as if they're your college roommate. There's PLENTY to suggest that dub fans for a LONG time didn't know shit about Japan or DBZ being Japanese; but the "Akira" thing isn't one of those. The "Akira" thing just shows that an embarrassing number of fans just have ZERO clue or care about how to behave like functional adults just in everyday life, regardless of which country/culture they're in, including their own.

[Chuquita]

Many thanks, everyone! I'm happy to have theories debunked. Even if there is no answer, at least I know my guesses weren't it, and it's just a thing that is.