Are the gods and angels new to their position?

[julianix]

Is it just me or do the gods and to an extent the angels seem like they really don't know much about the universe they oversee?

I get the feeling that the universes in the beginning had absolutely no supervision; and that only after the creator destroyed 6 of them did he ( unknown entity) put in place a system to oversee his universes.

If you look at beerus he doesn't know anything about his universe at all. Majin Buu was a being that has lived millions of years, yet Beerus had absolutely no idea who he was, not even Whis knows. They only know Freeza which is a young overlord and that's probably only because his blood line has had control of the universe for a few generations. More coincidence than actual knowledge.

Beerus doesn't even know what a ssj was and neither did champa.. I mean we're talking about a legend that at some point happened.

I honestly think the real god of gods put his future replacement in a position of leadership to see how he manages things. I think several changes were made to oversee universes but things just kept going bad where eventually 6 universes were destroyed, which is why there's universes like ours that had several kioshins etc..

In conclusion the gods of destruction are just mortals which at some point where anointed the title of gods of destruction where their job is to balance their universe. Looks like the gods are kind of winging it, no real training or anything. Then the angels are there to make sure things are somewhat in check but they themselves have no idea either.

Anyone else?

[MagmonKai]

Yeah, because Toriyama just pulled them out of his proverbial ass not too long ago. None of these characters are well established, the lore on them is constantly changing/expanding. I feel like this show's Gods are turning into the Hindu religion. Gods everywhere for every little thing. Then again maybe these characters are based off that religion I don't know.

In DBZ for example there were 5 supreme kais and 1 grand supreme kai. Then we learn in Super that the kais are supposedly life linked to the Destroyer god who is linked to the Angel (but not really because Mojito is still active). Which is just plain absurd. The lore in the show is complete garbage. Nothing is coherent except for the fact that with each passing arc Goku and friends get unexpectedly stronger for no real reason other than pure entertainment. I've learned to not look to deeply in this show, you'll just end up being more confused.

[eli1919]

Is it just me or do the gods and to an extent the angels seem like they really don't know much about the universe they oversee?

I get the feeling that the universes in the beginning had absolutely no supervision; and that only after the creator destroyed 6 of them did he ( unknown entity) put in place a system to oversee his universes.

If you look at beerus he doesn't know anything about his universe at all. Majin Buu was a being that has lived millions of years, yet Beerus had absolutely no idea who he was, not even Whis knows. They only know Freeza which is a young overlord and that's probably only because his blood line has had control of the universe for a few generations. More coincidence than actual knowledge.

Beerus doesn't even know what a ssj was and neither did champa.. I mean we're talking about a legend that at some point happened.

I honestly think the real god of gods put his future replacement in a position of leadership to see how he manages things. I think several changes were made to oversee universes but things just kept going bad where eventually 6 universes were destroyed, which is why there's universes like ours that had several kioshins etc..

In conclusion the gods of destruction are just mortals which at some point where anointed the title of gods of destruction where their job is to balance their universe. Looks like the gods are kind of winging it, no real training or anything. Then the angels are there to make sure things are somewhat in check but they themselves have no idea either.

Anyone else?

I disagree i dont think the gods of destruction should know about the creations its the kais that should know about the creations in the universe and they know like when buu was introduced supreme kai know of its existence .
gods of destruction are just there to make balance in the universe thats by destroying planets and the kais creations and i dont think that they arent entitled to know about anything or anyone in there universe there only purpose is to destroy

[Zagacious]

It is kind of strange how little the gods,angels, and zeno actually know. I agree the gods of destruction were probably either mortals at some point or created by grand priest or someone higher. Grand Priest is the only one who has really shown any godly knowledge or wisdom, and to a certain degree whis too. It's possible grand priest and kids are just another mortal race that's the strongest of all species as such saw it as their duty to control or assist zeno. If zeno is a creator too it's possible he's the one that created their race.

I think it's probably because they were just created without much thought and I hope they are expanded upon later to actually feel more godly instead of just powerful.

[eli1919]

It is kind of strange how little the gods,angels, and zeno actually know. I agree the gods of destruction were probably either mortals at some point or created by grand priest or someone higher. Grand Priest is the only one who has really shown any godly knowledge or wisdom, and to a certain degree whis too. It's possible grand priest and kids are just another mortal race that's the strongest of all species as such saw it as their duty to control or assist zeno. If zeno is a creator too it's possible he's the one that created their race.

I think it's probably because they were just created without much thought and I hope they are expanded upon later to actually feel more godly instead of just powerful.

I dont think so.
The angeles are will informed with the spieces in the universe but they just dont speak of anyone or anything unless they are asked and thats shown when vados knew about frost idenity but didnt reveal it because simply champa didnt ask and whis does this to with beerus unless beerus asks him whis doesnt share information.
And for the grand priest it is shown that he knows a lot about the spieces and creations in each universe and thats shown in the tournamnet.
And for zeno he created the universes and the gods of distruction and the kais and the kais job is to creat life in their universes and for that i dont think zeno is obligated to know about creations in each universe because he made that the kais job.

[Zagacious]

It is kind of strange how little the gods,angels, and zeno actually know. I agree the gods of destruction were probably either mortals at some point or created by grand priest or someone higher. Grand Priest is the only one who has really shown any godly knowledge or wisdom, and to a certain degree whis too. It's possible grand priest and kids are just another mortal race that's the strongest of all species as such saw it as their duty to control or assist zeno. If zeno is a creator too it's possible he's the one that created their race.

I think it's probably because they were just created without much thought and I hope they are expanded upon later to actually feel more godly instead of just powerful.

I dont think so.
The angeles are will informed with the spieces in the universe but they just dont speak of anyone or anything unless they are asked and thats shown when vados knew about frost idenity but didnt reveal it because simply champa didnt ask and whis does this to with beerus unless beerus asks him whis doesnt share information.

There are a few things that they know, but not even close to the scale you would expect them to know about the universes. Knowing about a well-known assassin like Hit or Frost isn't exactly information only a god would know. Whis seems pretty wise although the information he has presented is not rare or exclusive information that anyone could find out by exploring space. The point was more about Zeno anyways who doesn't seem to know anything and is excited and surprised by everything that's presented to him.

And for the grand priest it is shown that he knows a lot about the spieces and creations in each universe and thats shown in the tournamnet.

I said Grand priest was one of the only ones who has actually shown godly wisdom or knowledge, I'm starting to think you didn't even read my post.

And for zeno he created the universes and the gods of distruction and the kais and the kais job is to creat life in their universes and for that i dont think zeno is obligated to know about creations in each universe because he made that the kais job.

Where is it ever stated or implied Zeno created anything? If he is the creator then the points I made are even stronger, because why would a creator god not know about his own creations? It's never stated he appointed the kais for that purpose either we just know they seem a lot wiser than he is, which isn't difficult, even Hercule seems wiser than Zeno. This makes even less sense for him to just erase universes if he is the one that created it.

[TKA]

If you look at beerus he doesn't know anything about his universe at all. Majin Buu was a being that has lived millions of years, yet Beerus had absolutely no idea who he was, not even Whis knows. They only know Freeza which is a young overlord and that's probably only because his blood line has had control of the universe for a few generations. More coincidence than actual knowledge.

Beerus doesn't even know what a ssj was and neither did champa.. I mean we're talking about a legend that at some point happened.

Question: Do you know how big a galaxy is, let alone a universe? You could travel at lightspeed for 14.5 billion years in a straight line and still not clear the universe. This is the reason our Kaioshin didn't know anything about the saiyans and super saiyan back in the Buu arc: he has a whole universe to govern.

But that's beside the point. The reason Beerus, and Champa don't know anything is because they don't care to know. That's their characters: they're irresponsible and don't take their positions seriously. They do whatever they want, and the lives or mortals going about their mortal existence means nothing to them. They're willfully ignorant.

[Zagacious]

Question: Do you know how big a galaxy is, let alone a universe? You could travel at lightspeed for 14.5 billion years in a straight line and still not clear the universe. This is the reason our Kaioshin didn't know anything about the saiyans and super saiyan back in the Buu arc: he has a whole universe to govern.

But that's beside the point. The reason Beerus, and Champa don't know anything is because they don't care to know. That's their characters: they're irresponsible and don't take their positions seriously. They do whatever they want, and the lives or mortals going about their mortal existence means nothing to them. They're willfully ignorant.

This makes perfect sense for the Gods of Destruction, who don't even really seem like immortals any longer, but more like Brute force minions for the Grand Priest and Zeno, and it makes sense for the Kais to not know everything, but the Angels and above should know mostly what's going on. What exactly is this 'governing' they are doing if they barely know anything about the universes they're governing over?

The size of the universes and and time it takes to get there is irrelevant to Angels, Grand Priest, and Zeno, even without god tube they can teleport or spy on other points in the universe at will. You'd think since they have literally nothing else to do they'd at least be keeping an eye on the universes. They could probably get a general idea of what's going on in an entire universe in a week or less, so to me it doesn't make sense that they would know so little.

Whis has shown some wisdom about universes, but not nearly as much as I would expect, Grand Priest seems just fine, there's nothing yet he didn't really seem to know about beforehand.

This idea that they just don't care about anything even their own universes and fellow gods isn't really a good thing for the series IMO because they're starting to take it too far at times. I'm fine with them not caring about individual planets, but to not care about the universe and barely know anything about it? Why are they even there, there really isn't anything else for them to do as far as we know. Is Zeno really so brainless that he just spaces off all day and does nothing?

[julianix]

Yeah I've been saying I dont think the angels really know what's going on outside of what they've seen for themselves. They dont seem to have universal knowledge about anything, like you would expect.

Like someone else said earlier the grand priest is the only one who has shown godly wisdom. But the Zenos are complete morons, I don't believe for one second they posses any real power for themselves. They we're either gifted the position by daddy or someone else or they are being manipulated by tue grand priest. I can live with both options.

[Snakeway Skywalker]

It is kind of strange how little the gods,angels, and zeno actually know. I agree the gods of destruction were probably either mortals at some point or created by grand priest or someone higher. Grand Priest is the only one who has really shown any godly knowledge or wisdom, and to a certain degree whis too. It's possible grand priest and kids are just another mortal race that's the strongest of all species as such saw it as their duty to control or assist zeno. If zeno is a creator too it's possible he's the one that created their race.

I think it's probably because they were just created without much thought and I hope they are expanded upon later to actually feel more godly instead of just powerful.

The writers just seem to be making all this up as they go along, kinda like how Toriyama went about writing the manga back in the day. It worked well for him (for the most part), because the arcs did a generally good job of building on top of each other, but when you have characters as powerful and important as Beerus or Zen-oh, and greatly increasing the power of many of the classic characters who were already unfathomably strong by the end of the main story, that everything seems so unnecessarily complicated and hard to follow. Bottom line is, before Toriyama, Toei, Fuji TV, and co. decided to go ahead with a new canonical sequel series to DBZ, they should've maybe put a bit more thought into it.

This is just for me, but this is my 100th post in the DBS forum here on Kazenshuu. Yay me!

[Kanious]

To me it seems that gods of destructions were MORTAL, trained and chosen to become gods, like Toppo, Goku and Vegeta are said to be next in line or invited to be after their gods retire or die.

Angels Zeno and Grad Priest are on another level... even the kais, as it is said that they are from a "sacred" race, born from sacred trees or something like that.

Grand Priest seems very knowledgeable, and it seems that he can access any universe and show to Zeno what is happening, as we saw on some recruiting episodes

[cheddarsword]

Actually, being new to their position kinda makes sense if my theory is spot on... More on that at another time though.